IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[Reviresco]

OH NO! Best Buy trying to ruin my Namor Day!

If you ordered from the website, check your order status. Mine is saying there is a problem and if they don't send it by the end of the month they will cancel my order! WTF?

Now I got to run to Best Buy store and straighten this mess out. grrrrrrr

[kevlon]

Well, Namor Day continues! My LCBS bought a collection of action figures, and it had 3 different Namors! They were open and played with, but they were $3 each, so I grabbed them up. Now I don't have unbox my figures, to play with these.

Also picked up the comics. BP fans won't be happy, and the writing isn't good, but Namor isn't trashed and it was great to see Atlantean tech on full display. The details of the alliance are ... questionable, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out. Probably yet another dangling plot line, like the Latverian alliance, which is completely forgotten.

Conquered Shores ... well, I'm STILL on the fence about. The ending has a certain feel good aspect, but is it really? It's kind of funny that Namor and T'challa share the same fate this week. The characterization STILL remains an issue, and they even smack Namorita with it. Not happy with that.


Watching Wakanda Forever Assembled now. Will listen to the podcast on my way to dinner, shortly. I LOVE Namor Day!

Just read it.... gosh I've never ever seen behaviour like that from Nita. That really shocked me. It was totally out of character.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

[Felipe Silveira]

I really hated this mini. I expected to see more submarine, Namora and others, and Nita, well, the script went like a bulldozer over her.

[Doombot]

So.. yeah. Conquered Shores... I, uh.. I .. dunno.

[Reviresco]

Just read it.... gosh I've never ever seen behaviour like that from Nita. That really shocked me. It was totally out of character.

I really hated this mini. I expected to see more submarine, Namora and others, and Nita, well, the script went like a bulldozer over her.

So.. yeah. Conquered Shores... I, uh.. I .. dunno.

Exactly.

I don't who that blonde was but it wasn't Namorita.

I mean, after #4 I figured out spoilers:

Atlantis

end of spoilers was going to be made the villain, but ... I didn't expect that take.

I don't know what I expected. I did expect it to be introspective, given how things were handled in Halt and Catch Fire, but ... I don't know. But it just didn't come off very Namor like or even have him deal with anything, but Sue. Plus did the plan really need machines? I still am not sure if that is actually supposed to Namor's happy retirement home.

I did like the idea of the circle starting over again, (though WHO are these people?) with hopefully a better result.

Hope to read it all together tonight and see if it reads differently.

[dzub]

Sigh what a crap end.

They could've made spoilers:

Namorita's motivations be stuff like the trauma of dying in Civil War

end of spoilers

[Reviresco]

Apparently her 'motivation' was Namor's anger 'infecting' her, but nothing about ATTUMA's rabid hatred of everyone having an effect on her?

That's one of my problems with the mini-series. He could have sold his versions of these characters, if he just gave us SOMETHING as far as motivations. Why is Namor so antagonistic towards Torch? Why is Namorita taking this stance? Why is Attuma allying with them against Krang? Just too many unanswered questions.

[dzub]

Apparently her 'motivation' was Namor's anger 'infecting' her, but nothing about ATTUMA's rabid hatred of everyone having an effect on her?

That's one of my problems with the mini-series. He could have sold his versions of these characters, if he just gave us SOMETHING as far as motivations. Why is Namor so antagonistic towards Torch? Why is Namorita taking this stance? Why is Attuma allying with them against Krang? Just too many unanswered questions.

Uh...would'nt Namora/her mom's influence soften 'Namor's' anger?
For an "Atlantean Supremacist" , his best friends (if he has any) are surface dwellers..does'nt that like conflict with the stance?

[Reviresco]

Uh...would'nt Namora/her mom's influence soften 'Namor's' anger?
For an "Atlantean Supremacist" , his best friends (if he has any) are surface dwellers..does'nt that like conflict with the stance?

Namorita lost her mother when she was a teenager, IIRC. She's spent more time with Namor, I believe -- everything we've seen of her appearances, and it hasn't seemed to effected her there. I think she died, before Namora was revived. And where is Namora in this tale?

That's another thing. Namor wasn't so much an Atlantean supremacist, as an Atlantean defender and avenger. He wanted the surface people to stop trying to kill his people.

Namor, like most kings, doesn't have many friends. Even Atlanteans he cares for or cares for him, are going to have to deal with their social standing. I've always maintained that younger Namor liked the surface world, because there wasn't that dynamic. But in the end, no one there ever picked Atlantis over the surface world, when conflicts happened. Most the time, they couldn't be bothered to help Atlantis even when there wasn't a conflict. The exception being, IIRC, the Defenders.

[kevlon]

Namorita lost her mother when she was a teenager, IIRC. She's spent more time with Namor, I believe -- everything we've seen of her appearances, and it hasn't seemed to effected her there. I think she died, before Namora was revived. And where is Namora in this tale?

That's another thing. Namor wasn't so much an Atlantean supremacist, as an Atlantean defender and avenger. He wanted the surface people to stop trying to kill his people.

Namor, like most kings, doesn't have many friends. Even Atlanteans he cares for or cares for him, are going to have to deal with their social standing. I've always maintained that younger Namor liked the surface world, because there wasn't that dynamic. But in the end, no one there ever picked Atlantis over the surface world, when conflicts happened. Most the time, they couldn't be bothered to help Atlantis even when there wasn't a conflict. The exception being, IIRC, the Defenders.

Namora and Nita have never been seen in the same room together. There's a strong rumour that they are the same person...haha. I just want a book where all 3 are seen together

Someone called it earlier in this thread that Nita would be the "villain". But it just doesn't fit her character.

And you're right, Namor isn't a supremacist, he's an avenger but even that aspect hasn't been seen in Nita's personality - and she's been around Namor her whole life. Yes she got a angrier in New Warriors but she's never been all "crush the surface people for destroying our seas". She became angry over the stress of leading the Warriors and ruling Atlantis. And she had love for the surface people.

The ending was just bizarre. Nita would never banish Namor!

[Reviresco]

Namora and Nita have never been seen in the same room together. There's a strong rumour that they are the same person...haha. I just want a book where all 3 are seen together

Someone called it earlier in this thread that Nita would be the "villain". But it just doesn't fit her character.

And you're right, Namor isn't a supremacist, he's an avenger but even that aspect hasn't been seen in Nita's personality - and she's been around Namor her whole life. Yes she got a angrier in New Warriors but she's never been all "crush the surface people for destroying our seas". She became angry over the stress of leading the Warriors and ruling Atlantis. And she had love for the surface people.

The ending was just bizarre. Nita would never banish Namor!

I don't think so either. And you're right, Nita actually likes / loves the surface world far more than Namor. She took Betty's last name, for goodness sakes. That said, I MIGHT believe that take, if we had something in mini-series that explained the change.

LOL! Namora and Namorita being the same person. I'd love to see all three in the room too. The only time we've seen it was in Secret Battleworld A-Force -- which was an AU Namor, Namora, and Namorita.

[Doombot]

I hate to say it, as I'd want to encourage anyone looking to make the effort in creating a new Namor story, but Conquered Shores just didn't have anything interesting to say, about anything really. None of the aspects presented really panned out in terms of having anything to add to the story or characters. Futuristic story, Utopia, Dystopia, A former King, A former hero, ageing, maturing, machine sentience, humans vs Atlanteans or humans/Atlanteans vs "The Other", loss of friends, memories, betrayal etc. All of these ideas are sort of set up, but nothing pays off. There's really no exploration of these themes and Namor himself is no different at the end of the story than at the start. The only thing I can really see the story doing is reinforcing the idea that Namor will never really fit in or belong anywhere, even after getting everything he dreamed of as a younger man.

Was there really anything about the story that would have really called for the loss of all the world's heroes in some strange offworld Kree battle? What did that add? The story could have just been set in a reasonable timeframe when most of them would be dead of old age, and the world ocean levels much higher due to climate change or whatever. The conceit of the offworld war is odd to me, plus I'm still annoyed that Namor "won" the battle against the surface simply by circumstance instead of by his own efforts. He just sort of inherits a flooded world with all his competition having conveniently died or disappeared in space.

Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon, it wouldn't be the first time lol, but I had hoped for more.

[Doombot]

So this brings us back to a couple things:

1) How would you write a "Sub-Mariner: The End" story yourself. This could either be a story that is the culmination of how you see Namor's character and world coming to a satisfying conclusion, OR just a fun AU that you'd feel would be a great arc for an "End" type story. Like a Subby version of Days of Future Past or something similar.

2) I still want to hear people's views or opinions on the origin of water-breathing Atlanteans and the hows and why's of their creation. Including you, Rev.

[Reviresco]

I hate to say it, as I'd want to encourage anyone looking to make the effort in creating a new Namor story, but Conquered Shores just didn't have anything interesting to say, about anything really. None of the aspects presented really panned out in terms of having anything to add to the story or characters. Futuristic story, Utopia, Dystopia, A former King, A former hero, ageing, maturing, machine sentience, humans vs Atlanteans or humans/Atlanteans vs "The Other", loss of friends, memories, betrayal etc. All of these ideas art sort of set up, but nothing pays off. There's really no exploration of these themes and Namor himself is no different at the end of the story than at the start. The only thing I can really see the story doing is reinforcing the idea that Namor will never really fit in or belong anywhere, even after getting everything he dreamed of as a younger man.

Was there really anything about the story that would have really called for the loss of all the world's heroes in some strange offworld Kree battle? What did that add? The story could have just been set in a reasonable timeframe when most of them would be dead of old age, and the world ocean levels much higher due to climate change or whatever. The conceit of the offworld war is odd to me, plus I'm still annoyed that Namor "won" the battle against the surface simply by circumstance instead of by his own efforts. He just sort of inherits a flooded world with all his competition having conveniently died or disappeared in space.

Maybe I'm just being a curmudgeon, it wouldn't be the first time lol, but I had hoped for more.

Oh, I agree. I hoped and I expected more, from what we got in the first issue. I wonder if he needed more pages? Cause, as I've said repeatedly, I have so many questions.

And especially yes, to what I highlighted. Especially given the essay / letter he wrote at the end of the first issue.

I don't think the humans would have been so decimated or in such straits, if most of the supers and genius were on the planet. I also found it be annoying that becoming THE major power on the planet just fell into his lap, as opposed to doing something to gain it.

I didn't get to read the entire series yet, and this last issue was supposedly iFanboy's pick of the week (???), so I want to listen to that podcast.