IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[Reviresco]

Basically, lol, I'm not sure if this is an AU but it feels like it. Doom def would not have been beaten by a clone, namor or no, lol.

It's definitely an AU. Sort of like the 10 lives of Moria MacTaggert.

[Reviresco]

I will buy an art book if they make one, I need it!

We'll have to keep our eyes open for it. Going by other shows, I wouldn't expect it for 6 months or so. I think the Moon Knight book came out around Christmas.

Just me speculating that in both instances it's like, I was so excited for both books but as I read through them it's just not making much sense to Namor's character. idk, guess I will wait to see the last issue.

Me too! IIRC, it was promoted as Namor as king of the world ... but that's not exactly what we got. I want to go back and read it all together, which may make more sense / read better. I mean, I wasn't expecting this cover, with Namor in place of Doom, but I certainly wasn't expecting Namor completely out of the rulership and basically powerless to implement his plans / alliance with the surface.

Namor's life is rife with tragedy and I do think his end would be something similar to that of the Suma-Ket/Artys-Gran arc, where he is killed then revived to save the world or he sacrifices himself to save the world one last time. However I often feel that plots that rely on a character dying to achieve something happens too much and many times it's not done well so I would rather see a subversion of that for Namor, also I would like there be some worth to his years long struggles. The pay off for fans might never be seen since Marvel Comics will continue long after I grow old and die, lol, but maybe someday a writer can address this as part of Namor's canon even if they reboot/dial him back to pre events. Or maybe it could be a future timeline.

Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't want to see an End story where Namor has to sacrifice ... AGAIN.

Thinking a bit on it perhaps it would be about the people of Earth leaving the planet. But the closest planet is mostly water -- and they need the Atlanteans to survive the world. Namor could be helping make it happen, but he chooses to return to Earth and leave the new planet to his offspring. It would be a new beginning for him either way.

Or they could use Cantwell's set up, where most air breathers have left the planet, and the Atlanteans, and those surface breathers left, are trying to restore the planet together, instead of the dystopian, still at war with each other, take we've gotten.

[ImperiusWrecked]

We'll have to keep our eyes open for it. Going by other shows, I wouldn't expect it for 6 months or so. I think the Moon Knight book came out around Christmas.





Me too! IIRC, it was promoted as Namor as king of the world ... but that's not exactly what we got. I want to go back and read it all together, which may make more sense / read better. I mean, I wasn't expecting this cover, with Namor in place of Doom, but I certainly wasn't expecting Namor completely out of the rulership and basically powerless to implement his plans / alliance with the surface.






Yeah, I agree. I wouldn't want to see an End story where Namor has to sacrifice ... AGAIN.

Thinking a bit on it perhaps it would be about the people of Earth leaving the planet. But the closest planet is mostly water -- and they need the Atlanteans to survive the world. Namor could be helping make it happen, but he chooses to return to Earth and leave the new planet to his offspring. It would be a new beginning for him either way.

Or they could use Cantwell's set up, where most air breathers have left the planet, and the Atlanteans, and those surface breathers left, are trying to restore the planet together, instead of the dystopian, still at war with each other, take we've gotten.

I really did want to see Emperor Namor in Conquered Shores, like we hardly ever get that in Marvel comics and for as many times as Namor claims to be ruler of the world bc it's covered mainly in water we never actually see anyone treat him with respect or get him in that type of stories, but as I was saying to Doombot the other day "Emperor Namor" sounds so much better than "King Namor", but I was so pleased to see they used "Prince Namor" in that Sinister book.

I think another alternative is the most likely one: Finally after Namor saves the humans and the atlanteans and the whole world through his prophecy, a new era of collaboration and peace is ushered in where humanity works with the Atlanteans to save the planet and nature through conservation efforts. It's open ended and gives a sense of hope to readers that all that Namor's been through finally yielded the ending of him saving the lands and seas and uniting his two peoples.

Also Marvel should bring back Eco-Warrior Namor more, I would like that much more than "Namor is once again insane".

[Doombot]

I'd want to see an ending for Namor that has him long outliving any of his contemporaries, the age of super heroes had long since passed, with Namor still alive, due to his hybrid biology, with some sort of bitter-sweet ending. A really good ending for Namor wouldn't really be the best "comic book" material maybe, at least in the American Marvel style. I'd want an ending that really lived up to the byronic, tragic or dual nature of his character. I'd also want to see him in a future setting that isn't the usual sci-fi apocalyptic or dystopia setting. A more realistic and somewhat sad setting, that is also fitting for Namor imo. The great struggles and wars between and within his peoples may have ultimately come to an end, but the price of that was a great decline, as the loss of the world's biodiversity and impact of humans on the world's environments simply could not be reversed (as is the most likely reality) which would have cause unspeakable turmoil, famines, pandemics and war. On the other side of this, Namor still survives into a more peaceful world, much less populated, the great wars and superheroes left in the past. How would an increasingly aging Namor fare in a world that is now relatively peaceful, but he himself is a man with centuries of experiences of war, death and trauma. The living generation, including his grandchildren and great grandchildren having known nothing of this type of life. In this type of story would I want Namor to die some violent hero's death against one last foe, or swim off into the sunset? Does Namor burn out or fade away? Could Namor have an ending where he simply dies after a very long and full life, surrounded by loved ones? Or is the nature of his character to have a tragic end?

Whatever that end, I simply do not want to see any current living heroes, no Steve, no Bruce or Strange, no Sue or Reed, not even sure I'd want to see Hammond. I'd like to learn, maybe in short flashbacks, the fate of his relationships with these characters, but not in any way that distracts from the main final story.

[Reviresco]

I'd want to see an ending for Namor that has him long outliving any of his contemporaries, the age of super heroes had long since passed, with Namor still alive, due to his hybrid biology, with some sort of bitter-sweet ending. A really good ending for Namor wouldn't really be the best "comic book" material maybe, at least in the American Marvel style. I'd want an ending that really lived up to the byronic, tragic or dual nature of his character. I'd also want to see him in a future setting that isn't the usual sci-fi apocalyptic or dystopia setting. A more realistic and somewhat sad setting, that is also fitting for Namor imo. The great struggles and wars between and within his peoples may have ultimately come to an end, but the price of that was a great decline, as the loss of the world's biodiversity and impact of humans on the world's environments simply could not be reversed (as is the most likely reality) which would have cause unspeakable turmoil, famines, pandemics and war. On the other side of this, Namor still survives into a more peaceful world, much less populated, the great wars and superheroes left in the past. How would an increasingly aging Namor fare in a world that is now relatively peaceful, but he himself is a man with centuries of experiences of war, death and trauma. The living generation, including his grandchildren and great grandchildren having known nothing of this type of life. In this type of story would I want Namor to die some violent hero's death against one last foe, or swim off into the sunset? Does Namor burn out or fade away? Could Namor have an ending where he simply dies after a very long and full life, surrounded by loved ones? Or is the nature of his character to have a tragic end?

Whatever that end, I simply do not want to see any current living heroes, no Steve, no Bruce or Strange, no Sue or Reed, not even sure I'd want to see Hammond. I'd like to learn, maybe in short flashbacks, the fate of his relationships with these characters, but not in any way that distracts from the main final story.

That's an interesting take ... a Byronic ending. When I read your take, I see something like Arthur, the Sleeping King -- cause why not make Namor even MORE the outsider, by making him a man out of time. LOL! This actually ties into an idea I had for a 616 Namor story. I ramble ... basically, perhaps Namor is around because he's a sleeping king, who is woken in the future to take on this threat ... and perhaps be the only leader that both the Atlanteans and airbreathers will follow. So, does the story end with Namor trying to make a new life in the future or to return to his role as the Sleeping King?

I do like the idea of Namor being the last of the superheroes.

[Reviresco]

I really did want to see Emperor Namor in Conquered Shores, like we hardly ever get that in Marvel comics and for as many times as Namor claims to be ruler of the world bc it's covered mainly in water we never actually see anyone treat him with respect or get him in that type of stories, but as I was saying to Doombot the other day "Emperor Namor" sounds so much better than "King Namor", but I was so pleased to see they used "Prince Namor" in that Sinister book.

I think another alternative is the most likely one: Finally after Namor saves the humans and the atlanteans and the whole world through his prophecy, a new era of collaboration and peace is ushered in where humanity works with the Atlanteans to save the planet and nature through conservation efforts. It's open ended and gives a sense of hope to readers that all that Namor's been through finally yielded the ending of him saving the lands and seas and uniting his two peoples.

Also Marvel should bring back Eco-Warrior Namor more, I would like that much more than "Namor is once again insane".

I agree! Much prefer Eco-Warrior Namor than 'insane' Namor. And it's beyond timely.

Me too! I was going to point out that Gillen went back to Prince, which I love! I have never cared for the 'king' title that Fraction succeeded in making a thing. And yes, it's sad, that when we finally get a Namor book, and it's even set up to show him as the world ruler ... he's not ruling. SMH

[Thirteen]

NAMOR the wife-stealer Appreciation
( I wonder if his romantic tension with Shuri in the MCU will supplant his Sue fixation on the big screen?)

"You are Magnificent"

[Doombot]

Oh lawd, Thirteen's in for a tongue-lashing. lol

[Doombot]

That's an interesting take ... a Byronic ending. When I read your take, I see something like Arthur, the Sleeping King -- cause why not make Namor even MORE the outsider, by making him a man out of time. LOL! This actually ties into an idea I had for a 616 Namor story. I ramble ... basically, perhaps Namor is around because he's a sleeping king, who is woken in the future to take on this threat ... and perhaps be the only leader that both the Atlanteans and airbreathers will follow. So, does the story end with Namor trying to make a new life in the future or to return to his role as the Sleeping King?

I do like the idea of Namor being the last of the superheroes.

It's okay to ramble, I do all the time lol.

I think the Sleeping King story trope or motif could easily be applied to Namor, certainly in a distant future story. I'm not sure I'd want him to be literally sleeping in a mountain or anything, like Barbarossa, but maybe he had left his people to wander the world on his own. Or after the decline and end of the "old world", and the realization of his hopes and dreams for his people, he simply felt he had no need to actually rule them, a protector with nothing left to protect. Having outlived his enemies, his wife or wives, and maybe even children, he goes out to explore parts of the world alone, until eventually, after becoming mostly a tale or legend to his people, something calls him back. I'm reminded of the ending sequence from the film The Green Mile where the main character is shown to have outlived everyone he's ever known, and he feels it's a just punishment from God for having let the innocent John Coffey be executed years before. I could see a similar sort of melancholy with Namor having lived so long, and seen so much. I wouldn't want him to see his long life as any sort of punishment or torment, but I would find it interesting to see him contemplative and unsure why he is fated to live such a long life, and ponder the meaning of it all. All the struggles, the love and the loss, what does it mean when you outlast it all? The story would have to have some satisfying conclusion to that question, not that I know what it might be.

[Felipe Silveira]

Oh, FF 1234, a Morrison classic. After this comic book I wonder what Morrison would be able to do in the Ultimate universe with Wanda and Pietro.

[Reviresco]

It's okay to ramble, I do all the time lol.

I think the Sleeping King story trope or motif could easily be applied to Namor, certainly in a distant future story. I'm not sure I'd want him to be literally sleeping in a mountain or anything, like Barbarossa, but maybe he had left his people to wander the world on his own. Or after the decline and end of the "old world", and the realization of his hopes and dreams for his people, he simply felt he had no need to actually rule them, a protector with nothing left to protect. Having outlived his enemies, his wife or wives, and maybe even children, he goes out to explore parts of the world alone, until eventually, after becoming mostly a tale or legend to his people, something calls him back. I'm reminded of the ending sequence from the film The Green Mile where the main character is shown to have outlived everyone he's ever known, and he feels it's a just punishment from God for having let the innocent John Coffey be executed years before. I could see a similar sort of melancholy with Namor having lived so long, and seen so much. I wouldn't want him to see his long life as any sort of punishment or torment, but I would find it interesting to see him contemplative and unsure why he is fated to live such a long life, and ponder the meaning of it all. All the struggles, the love and the loss, what does it mean when you outlast it all? The story would have to have some satisfying conclusion to that question, not that I know what it might be.

Maybe, but your rambles are far more coherent than mine.

How Namor moved from ruler to legend would be awesome too! It could open another mini-series / series: The Adventures of the Lost Prince! Of course it would probably involve some period of amnesia, which would leave me screaming "Noooooooooooo!"

It's interesting you mention the punishment of god, cause when we were talking about Namor helping create the peaceful, non-polluted Earth (or another planet) saving New World Order, I was getting a Moses vibe. Where Namor could help them get to the Promised Land, but could not enter it himself.

I think Namor already feels the weight of his long life already. Betty Dean taught him that, and the loss of so many loved ones amongst his own people -- his wives and lovers, Namorita, etc. And he's lived through so many events, many underwater that we probably will never know, that it does give him a far wider and wiser view on the world. I wish more writers would write Namor like that -- while still being his arrogant self. ;p

You know, there's plenty of spaces where people could write Namor stories that Marvel has just left wide open. But of course, I would prefer they do an ongoing set in the present and firmly build up Namor to his former glory.

[Reviresco]

Oh lawd, Thirteen's in for a tongue-lashing. lol

hahaha! Yes, I had a similar reaction.

Incoming!!!

Oh, FF 1234, a Morrison classic. After this comic book I wonder what Morrison would be able to do in the Ultimate universe with Wanda and Pietro.

OMG. LOL!

To be fair, I loved Morrison's dialog for Namor in that series -- very poetic. And, of course, the Jae Lee art.

[Reviresco]

NAMOR the wife-stealer Appreciation
( I wonder if his romantic tension with Shuri in the MCU will supplant his Sue fixation on the big screen?)

Thirteen, just a warning, there's some people in the thread that have an .... extreme explosive allergic reaction to Namor / Sue. And there are others that count that as their favorite 'ship.


I really hope the only "fixation" we see in the MCU for Namor is for Lady Dorma. I can do without the drama / trauma of Namor being part of love triangle where he stands zero chance of winning Sue's affections.

[Reviresco]

It's finally coming out! The Namora Emoji pin from 100Soft!

Plus we're getting a MegaMoji of Namor!





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[ImperiusWrecked]

Hey, I do have very strong feelings but I promise to keep my claws sheathed and keep it civil? lol.

NAMOR the wife-stealer Appreciation
( I wonder if his romantic tension with Shuri in the MCU will supplant his Sue fixation on the big screen?)

Honestly this isn't the first or second time I've seen this question or claim going around the internet in fandom spaces and it makes me so angry because just put aside the implications of people thinking Sue and Shuri, two very different characters, are both interchangeable for their uses as a love interest to Namor, and put aside the FACT that Namor stood there and MURDERED her mother, yes it was murder and yes he waited to make sure they were dead and even delivered a whole speech about Shuri being queen, just put that aside ok? The way people use Namor in these "relationships" specifically the Namor/Sue one because the Namor/Shuri one doesn't bother me because there is no way Marvel would ever consider making the woman whose mother was murdered have a romantic relationship with the man who killed her mother! (just making sure people understand that Namor in fact did kill Ramonda because it really feels like fans watched up to the cave/Talokan scene and then walked out of the theater) But going back to the way people use Namor with Namor/Sue, it is such a double standard, imagine if Namor was a woman and all anyone ever talked about was how they couldn't wait for Namor(a) to get with Reed and break up his and Sue's marriage bc Sue was "boring" and every single time anything of interest with Namor happened all anyone wanted to talk about or speculate was whether or not (s)he would be in a romantic relationship, then everyone would be saying how terrible it is that a character is reduced solely to a romantic interest but because Namor is a male character its somehow accepted more. Namor/Sue is not a romance, it's a old tired plot that all characters involved have outgrown and Marvel would only do them harm by repeating this nostalgia not to mention that if Sue is cast as a white woman then we also have Namor as the "Exotic Sexually Aggressive Latino Lover" stereotype.

We literally got an entire new lore, and world, and strong character in mcu!Namor but it really feels like I wished on a monkey's paw because it may not be Namor/Sue, but Namor/Shuri doesn't make any sense either. As to the romantic tension, 90% of it is made up in fan's minds/headcanons, and as the actors said, there is more than one type of connection and it wasn't meant to be romantic.

Lady Dorma should be THE leading lady in Namor's stories, and I don't care if she is dead, because Gwen Stacy is dead and yet she was featured in movies and cartoons and is always remembered as a character and as Peter's lost love, yet everyone will ignore Dorma which imo sucks because I know she is a lesser known character but she is also the second oldest female character Marvel has and Marvel ignores her in favor of yet another Namor/Sue plot. Marvel can revive her, there's nothing holding them back.