IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[ImperiusWrecked]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't complain so much about Namor being used in BP comics this way if we had something else to supply us with good namor content but between this and the avengers its slim pickings. I can't believe Marvel still hasn't announced a Namor ongoing, he's so popular now! I swear I thought if Namor could just get into a movie and have a good story, which he did in the movie, then we could get something from the comic side. Yet not one peep about a Namor solo. ):

[Doombot]

One of the reasons I'm actually happy Namor doesn't have a current book at Marvel is how badly T'Challa has been treated in his own book, really for some years now. It's bad enough seeing Namor pop up in all these guest-starring roles where I'm like, well that's not Namor at all, but I can't imagine reading month after month of Black Panther and feeling this is absolutely not the T'Challa I know.

[Reviresco]

A good article talking about villains and antagonists in the BP movies.



article source

Good to see an article recognizing the difference, especially in comparison to MCU Killmonger. Now if we could only a Namor movie or show where he's the protagonist!

[Reviresco]

Sorry. Distracted by the Namor parts of Wakanda Forever. ;p

[Reviresco]

Yeah, I probably wouldn't complain so much about Namor being used in BP comics this way if we had something else to supply us with good namor content but between this and the avengers its slim pickings. I can't believe Marvel still hasn't announced a Namor ongoing, he's so popular now! I swear I thought if Namor could just get into a movie and have a good story, which he did in the movie, then we could get something from the comic side. Yet not one peep about a Namor solo. ):

Aaron's Avengers ... don't get me started. Especially given we might have gotten him in Gillen's X-Men if not for that crap. The only good thing is that most writers seem to be ignoring is run.

But yes, we are reduced to surprise scraps, and praying they won't be trash takes. Even the mini we got is a future AU Namor, while charging us a $1 more than other books. The last good Namor we got was in the Cap Steve Rogers book, which had nothing for him, but giving Steve his shield back.

Yeah, we just can't win. First it was the push and the support for MCU characters, and now that Namor is in the MCU, Marvel decides it has to push non-MCU characters like Hallow's Eve and Blade's daughter (both completely new) and Gold Goblin and Red Goblin, and _fill in the blank_ Goblin, and not to forget 20 different Symbiote types. Oh, and Cosmic Ghostrider as well as Ghostrider. Every month's solicitation is just painful.

One of the reasons I'm actually happy Namor doesn't have a current book at Marvel is how badly T'Challa has been treated in his own book, really for some years now. It's bad enough seeing Namor pop up in all these guest-starring roles where I'm like, well that's not Namor at all, but I can't imagine reading month after month of Black Panther and feeling this is absolutely not the T'Challa I know.

Namor isn't T'challa, and OOC writing is rampant amongst all of Marvel's characters -- especially for someone like myself, whose Namor was Silver and Bronze Age Namor.

But in both cases (ongoing or guest spots) you're reading stuff that isn't in character to you. At least with his own book, it would be far more pages, guaranteed monthly, with good art, and the story, good or bad, would be about Namor and his world, instead of UPS Shield Delivery Man, or Punching Bag / Whipping Boy, or Moustache Twirling Villain for some other character, or Arrogant Ass for no reason. It would get Namor out there, and prompt other creators to use him properly and maybe even care enough to want to write him.

Comic Namor fans are literally picking scraps out the trash can, praying they aren't too rancid to eat, and happy when a creator (cause it sure ain't editorial) remembers to throw them our way. Damn straight I want to move out the alley, and sit at the table for a real meal, which may not be to my taste, but at least isn't leftovers from another character.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Iris Van Herpen behind some of the Wakanda Forever designs, its so beautiful to see the video of Namora's dress, so I've never been able to get videos to upload here but I will post a link (source)


https://twitter.com/i/status/1621331025874894848

[ImperiusWrecked]

One of the reasons I'm actually happy Namor doesn't have a current book at Marvel is how badly T'Challa has been treated in his own book, really for some years now. It's bad enough seeing Namor pop up in all these guest-starring roles where I'm like, well that's not Namor at all, but I can't imagine reading month after month of Black Panther and feeling this is absolutely not the T'Challa I know.

A good writer/artist makes the comic, but bad ones will break them. I'm ever the optimist of it being good before marvel usually disappoints me XD to be perfectly fair Namor hasn't been written totally as Namor for a long time now? Like these days he's so much more crueler and no one really takes time to show all sides of the character like the Silver age did.

Good to see an article recognizing the difference, especially in comparison to MCU Killmonger. Now if we could only a Namor movie or show where he's the protagonist!

Sorry. Distracted by the Namor parts of Wakanda Forever. ;p

All good XD I love being able to rewatch it whenever I want. Yes, I really liked how well thought out is was, and we def need a movie or show. I feel like it will come, with Aquaman wrapping up, and the DCEU ending and rebooting with the DCU then people won't have them in direct competition with each other, so if Marvel does get the rights back by 2024 and makes a movie in a couple years then hopefully time moves faster so I can have it in my hands, lol. Marvel put a lot of effort into creating Talokan and lots of money went into the sets and things, I don't see them just ignoring it when fans are clearly crazy about it!

Aaron's Avengers ... don't get me started. Especially given we might have gotten him in Gillen's X-Men if not for that crap. The only good thing is that most writers seem to be ignoring is run.

But yes, we are reduced to surprise scraps, and praying they won't be trash takes. Even the mini we got is a future AU Namor, while charging us a $1 more than other books. The last good Namor we got was in the Cap Steve Rogers book, which had nothing for him, but giving Steve his shield back.

Yeah, we just can't win. First it was the push and the support for MCU characters, and now that Namor is in the MCU, Marvel decides it has to push non-MCU characters like Hallow's Eve and Blade's daughter (both completely new) and Gold Goblin and Red Goblin, and _fill in the blank_ Goblin, and not to forget 20 different Symbiote types. Oh, and Cosmic Ghostrider as well as Ghostrider. Every month's solicitation is just painful.




Namor isn't T'challa, and OOC writing is rampant amongst all of Marvel's characters -- especially for someone like myself, whose Namor was Silver and Bronze Age Namor.

But in both cases (ongoing or guest spots) you're reading stuff that isn't in character to you. At least with his own book, it would be far more pages, guaranteed monthly, with good art, and the story, good or bad, would be about Namor and his world, instead of UPS Shield Delivery Man, or Punching Bag / Whipping Boy, or Moustache Twirling Villain for some other character, or Arrogant Ass for no reason. It would get Namor out there, and prompt other creators to use him properly and maybe even care enough to want to write him.

Comic Namor fans are literally picking scraps out the trash can, praying they aren't too rancid to eat, and happy when a creator (cause it sure ain't editorial) remembers to throw them our way. Damn straight I want to move out the alley, and sit at the table for a real meal, which may not be to my taste, but at least isn't leftovers from another character.

Gives us a full meal marvel! no more table scraps.

[Reviresco]

Iris Van Herpen behind some of the Wakanda Forever designs, its so beautiful to see the video of Namora's dress, so I've never been able to get videos to upload here but I will post a link (source)


https://twitter.com/i/status/1621331025874894848

I love Iris Van Herpen's fashions since I saw one of her pieces at a Met Gala spread. They are sculptural and would be great for Atlantean costumes. That Carte Blanche collection looks AMAZING.

[Doombot]

I'm aware Namor isn't T'Challa. I'm simply expressing a sentiment that sometimes it feels as if it's better if a character is just left alone rather than constantly abused. I'm pretty sure you know that I'm not saying I'd rather Namor not have an ongoing, I'm just using an example of why sometimes part of me feels Namor is better off being mostly forgotten by current Marvel than remembered. Of course I want an ongoing Sub-Mariner book. We've had this discussion before, using an old childhood favourite of mine, the jungle hero Ka-Zar, who I would absolutely love to have an ongoing, only to have the few times Marvel remembers he exists full of the most batshit bizarre things like veganism, treehouse kitchen appliances, flower powers, sentient dinoskin loin-cloths and inexplicable, then immediately forgotten, Herald of Galactus Power Cosmic. So I'm just often worried about my beloved fishman and how bad things could really get when I see things like current issues of Black Panther. It's an admittedly jaded view, but Marvel hasn't exactly filled me with hope in recent years. I really don't think it's just a matter of things not quite being to my taste, but I would absolutely love to be wrong.

[Reviresco]

A good writer/artist makes the comic, but bad ones will break them. I'm ever the optimist of it being good before marvel usually disappoints me XD to be perfectly fair Namor hasn't been written totally as Namor for a long time now? Like these days he's so much more crueler and no one really takes time to show all sides of the character like the Silver age did.

He WAS different in the Silver and Bronze Age, the noble Sub-Mariner. He refused to execute Tiger Shark, despite all the crap he pulled on the Atlanteans and Lady Dorma! And writers, even in guest spots or teams, understood and wrote him like that, for the most part. Today, he's written as arrogant and hard and sarcastic, with very few people remembering his noble side, much less writing it. Those are aspects of Namor, but, as you said, not the only side of Namor. But when he doesn't have his own book to show all sides of the character, you only get whatever aspect a writer needs to support other characters, without regard to what damage you are causing to Namor.

All good XD I love being able to rewatch it whenever I want. Yes, I really liked how well thought out is was, and we def need a movie or show. I feel like it will come, with Aquaman wrapping up, and the DCEU ending and rebooting with the DCU then people won't have them in direct competition with each other, so if Marvel does get the rights back by 2024 and makes a movie in a couple years then hopefully time moves faster so I can have it in my hands, lol. Marvel put a lot of effort into creating Talokan and lots of money went into the sets and things, I don't see them just ignoring it when fans are clearly crazy about it!



Gives us a full meal marvel! no more table scraps.

Here! Here! I want a 4 star creative and editorial push of a meal!

I guess we'll have to wait till summer to see if Marvel Studios or Editorial is going to actually push Namor. I'm hoping it is only the mess with Universal that is keeping them from announcing something. But that doesn't explain the comics.

[skyvolt2000]

Namor isn't T'challa, and OOC writing is rampant amongst all of Marvel's characters -- especially for someone like myself, whose Namor was Silver and Bronze Age Namor.

Of course he is not-Marvel IGNORES the one guy that wants to write T'Challa and hires writers who OPENLY hate T'Challa and have gone on record saying it.

There are plenty of characters not being written OOC.

I don't see them just ignoring it when fans are clearly crazy about it!

Plenty of writers are fighting for characters. It's editorial that keeps standing in the way.

From Inhumans to Storm ongoing to Eli Bradley to even Namor-the battle is with Marvel editorial.

So it's not like there are NOT folks who want to do it.

[Doombot]

CLEAN CUP, MOVE DOWN!

So, what do you all feel are some of Namor's most impressive moments? (I haven't seen this type of thing for a while)
His most memorable, or insane power feats, or simply impressive in some way or another to you.

A lot of people remember the famous image by Jim Lee in the 90's Heroes Reborn series of Namor sitting all moody on his throne, but the moment from that book that always stuck with me (I was a young teen in those ancient days) wasn't the throne reveal, but Namor dramatically rising out of the harbour with a defeated Thing above his head, signalling that Namor was truly someone not to mess with.

[Reviresco]

I'm aware Namor isn't T'Challa.

I'm sorry if that came off short, I didn't intend that. But I was trying to say something without actually coming out and saying it. Part of what I meant, was that Marvel, and the creators themselves, are limiting the pool of writers for most minority and female books. That's good and bad, for the characters and the creators. But they will let anyone write Namor, big name or not.

Of course he is not-Marvel IGNORES the one guy that wants to write T'Challa and hires writers who OPENLY hate T'Challa and have gone on record saying it.

Is he black? Because that seems to be the main requirement, nowadays.

I can't say I've seen any of his writers say they HATE T'challa. But other than Hudlin, and maybe McGregor, most of his writers haven't said he was their favorite character. IIRC, Priest didn't want care for or want to write him either, and yet he delivered an iconic run.

There are plenty of characters not being written OOC.[/QUOTE]

I heard tons of complaints about Thor, and Iron Man, and Cap, and ... well just about every character. Especially the older ones, because they ARE being written differently they were earlier.

Plenty of writers are fighting for characters. It's editorial that keeps standing in the way.

From Inhumans to Storm ongoing to Eli Bradley to even Namor-the battle is with Marvel editorial.

So it's not like there are NOT folks who want to do it.

I agree and have said so repeatedly. Editorial gets ideas in their heads, or directives from the MCU or elsewhere, that either promote or prevent certain characters being used or pushed. But generally speaking, it's going to be about money, or what they think will make money.

I'm aware Namor isn't T'Challa.

I'm sorry if that came off short, I didn't intend that. But I was trying to say something without actually coming out and saying it. Part of what I meant, was that Marvel, and the creators themselves, are limiting the pool of writers for most minority and female books. That's good and bad, for the characters and the creators. But they will let anyone write Namor, big name or not.

Of course he is not-Marvel IGNORES the one guy that wants to write T'Challa and hires writers who OPENLY hate T'Challa and have gone on record saying it.

Is he black? Because that seems to be the main requirement, nowadays.

I can't say I've seen any of his writers say they HATE T'challa. But other than Hudlin, and maybe McGregor, most of his writers haven't said he was their favorite character. IIRC, Priest didn't want care for or want to write him either, and yet he delivered an iconic run.

There are plenty of characters not being written OOC.[/QUOTE]

I heard tons of complaints about Thor, and Iron Man, and Cap, and ... well just about every character. Especially the older ones, because they ARE being written differently they were earlier.

Plenty of writers are fighting for characters. It's editorial that keeps standing in the way.

From Inhumans to Storm ongoing to Eli Bradley to even Namor-the battle is with Marvel editorial.

So it's not like there are NOT folks who want to do it.

I agree and have said so repeatedly. Editorial gets ideas in their heads, or directives from the MCU or elsewhere, that either promote or prevent certain characters being used or pushed. But generally speaking, it's going to be about money, or what they think will make money.

I'm simply expressing a sentiment that sometimes it feels as if it's better if a character is just left alone rather than constantly abused. I'm pretty sure you know that I'm not saying I'd rather Namor not have an ongoing, I'm just using an example of why sometimes part of me feels Namor is better off being mostly forgotten by current Marvel than remembered. Of course I want an ongoing Sub-Mariner book. We've had this discussion before, using an old childhood favourite of mine, the jungle hero Ka-Zar, who I would absolutely love to have an ongoing, only to have the few times Marvel remembers he exists full of the most batshit bizarre things like veganism, treehouse kitchen appliances, flower powers, sentient dinoskin loin-cloths and inexplicable, then immediately forgotten, Herald of Galactus Power Cosmic. So I'm just often worried about my beloved fishman and how bad things could really get when I see things like current issues of Black Panther. It's an admittedly jaded view, but Marvel hasn't exactly filled me with hope in recent years. I really don't think it's just a matter of things not quite being to my taste, but I would absolutely love to be wrong.

I would argue the problem is that Namor has been forgotten for at least one, if not two generations, and that's part of the problem. I do understand what you are saying, I mean, I never thought I would want Namor off the Avengers, but Aaron has driven me to that point. And that last Ka-Zar mini-series was pure garbage -- how you mess up Tarzan with dinosaurs is beyond me. And while there's a segment of BP fans that hate Coates run, there's plenty of other people that loved that run and it continues to sell in trades. Heck, THAT was the run that the Folio Society chose for a Black Panther book. The recent run is just a year old, and from the one issue I've read, it's awful, but they are dumping that writer.

Like I said, I'm tired of scraps. I want more than just an ongoing. I want the same support and push that Marvel gave to Carole Danvers, Moon Knight, Black Panther, Venom, Ms. Marvel, Dr Strange, etc.. I want Editorial to decide to invest in Namor, give him a couple of decades of books by talented creatives, and return him to his top tier status. If a run is crap, then reboot and try, try, again. Treat Namor as the important character he was and should be in the MU.

[Reviresco]

CLEAN CUP, MOVE DOWN!

Ooops.

So, what do you all feel are some of Namor's most impressive moments? (I haven't seen this type of thing for a while)
His most memorable, or insane power feats, or simply impressive in some way or another to you.

A lot of people remember the famous image by Jim Lee in the 90's Heroes Reborn series of Namor sitting all moody on his throne, but the moment from that book that always stuck with me (I was a young teen in those ancient days) wasn't the throne reveal, but Namor dramatically rising out of the harbour with a defeated Thing above his head, signalling that Namor was truly someone not to mess with.

I'm not very good at this side of Namor ... the feats. I'll have to think on this. I do remember thinking this cover was pretty impressive ... as well as the story. Taking out the FF AND conquering the planet? Okaaaay.

[Reviresco]

Wait! This also was most impressive to me also. I was also a pre-teen at the time, so ...



WHIRLPOOL! I wish we would see Namor use this more often.





NUCLEAR TSUNAMI CAUSING COLLISION!!!




And knocks the Hulk right into Banner, while Namor shakes off the collision and speedily finds the body. All around awesome issue. Oh, and check out this amazing Atlantean ship! I love the eye, like they painted on Greek ships.