IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[Reviresco]

Powerful argument for the Speedo!!!

So much love from Alex Ross here.

[Reviresco]

Having some issues with viewing the Oscars, but following along on Twitter ...


Ruth Carter won Costume Design for Wakanda Forever!

Sadly, Angela Bassett got robbed again! Jamie Lee Curtis won the Best Supporting Actress. Also Wakanda Forever Hair and Make lost out to The Whale.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Instagram used to be so much better, but they've locked stuff down, and it's all aimed at phone apps, and have added weirdness like Stories and Reels, which I don't understand why, and Stories are ephemeral, so WTF? It makes it impossible to find anything there. On the plus side there's a lot less toxicity there than on Twitter.




Thanks! I'm going to keep trying. I'm not tech savvy enough, but I'm going to keep reading. I might end up going to a professional, but I think they START at $60 bucks. I do have some scans in Photobucket, but they went behind a paywall, and I downloaded those to my phone, then transferred them to the old computer which was a PITA -- made worse, by me having to rename all those files! I mean, I had to identify the comic, and then the page number, just from looking at the panels. And then ID and delete multiple pics.

I have one other old computer, I'm going to take it apart this weekend, and see what scans I have on there. But so many Tenoch pics which I'd organized and named. sob.

I am TOTALLY investing in back ups when this is over.

Back ups are so important! I hope you can recover it but I will def share if you don't.

I haven't run into that much recently on Twitter, but I left it for most of this year and around the holidays, IIRC, so I've missed quite a bit. But there definitely seems to be a few ... mud stirrers. There's a group that insist on couching everything in the Wakanda vs Talokan that is similar to the BP only fans, who have done nothing but blame Namor every since AvX, and have basically rewritten or ignored what actually occurred in the movie or comics. They mad because Shuri didn't follow Killmonger's path and go for an eye for an eye, but completely ignore that the whole reason Ramonda died was because Namor (in part) went for an eye for an eye. Like it's not okay for Namor but it is okay for Shuri??? Like everything Wakanda did was perfect? I don't think so. It's beyond frustrating.

And then there's Namor and Shuri shippers who read something into every detail of the movie, script, interview, etc. and warp the characters unrecognizably. But at least they aren't making it about two different peoples, and are doing so for an AU fandom.... even if they are woobifying Namor terribly.

And yes, that's a shame. There's so much going on with the characters and Coogler's themes, but you can't talk about it because it gets attacked by either the Wakanda Good, Talokan Bad group or by the Wooby Namor group. I don't understand the gaslighting Namor take, but I've wrestled with the idea of some manipulation, or perhaps strategies is the better word, for Namor's actions. We talked a little about it here when the movie dropped, but I've seen the movie a "few" more times and thought a lot more about it. But yes, Coogler gave MCU a lot more dimension than I thought we would get. I'd love to see him do a Namor alone project.

Yeah, it's on tumblr too, just bad takes about Namor are around in fandom and it's better for me to just ignore them so I don't get mad. lol. I can't stand when people woobify characters, its super annoying to me. As for the people who are still trying to demonize Namor, why. Just go find a character you like instead of hating on a character. :/

I found this collage artist on Instagram who sells several types of collages made from comic pages in a shadow box type frame. Though he also does some that include the whole comic and I guess pages from another comic. He also takes commissions. Depending on the book and the style prices range from 60 to 150 bucks, and some small ones made from corner boxes or cool ads! Here's his website which has a gallery, shop, etc.

https://www.codakhromecomicshop.com/index.html


And here's one for SVTU!


Attachment 130114

https://www.instagram.com/p/CpdbxYEv..._web_copy_link

I really want one!

Beautiful panels by Alex Ross homaging Kirby.

https://www.facebook.com/alexrossart...UJBwY13JcrodUl

I love these arts! I hope Ross does more like these with Namor, I would love to see his take on other classic comics.

Having some issues with viewing the Oscars, but following along on Twitter ...


Ruth Carter won Costume Design for Wakanda Forever!

Sadly, Angela Bassett got robbed again! Jamie Lee Curtis won the Best Supporting Actress. Also Wakanda Forever Hair and Make lost out to The Whale.

Best Costume Win! I'm happy they got something but yeah imo Angela should have won!

[Reviresco]

Best Costume Win! I'm happy they got something but yeah imo Angela should have won!

I don't care if it's true or not, I'm going to be entirely biased and opine creating yet ANOTHER entire world with the Talocanil played a part in that win. And Ruth Carter also becomes the first black woman to win TWO Oscars!

I'm very unhappy that Ludwig's amazing score and Hannah Belcher's AMAZING production design did not even get a nomination. Now I have to go and watch All Quiet On the Western Front, again to see how badly they robbed the Wakanda Forever folks.

I will never NOT be mad about Angela Bassett getting robbed. I love Everything Everywhere All At Once and Jamie Lee Curtis, but her performance is nothing against Angela. Or her co-star Stephanie Hsu, even. Clearly a case of her body of work getting the nod.

[Reviresco]

Back ups are so important! I hope you can recover it but I will def share if you don't.

It took some patience, but the drive of the even older laptop finally booted and I got some stuff off there! Going through them, but I may not have to go through Photobucket Hell. So I'm going to keep trying with the recent one and hope I can nab my other Comic and MCU Namor pictures! Will definitely coming begging if I'm unsuccessful, so thank you!

Yeah, it's on tumblr too, just bad takes about Namor are around in fandom and it's better for me to just ignore them so I don't get mad. lol. I can't stand when people woobify characters, its super annoying to me. As for the people who are still trying to demonize Namor, why. Just go find a character you like instead of hating on a character. :/

The haters annoy me more, but there's no escaping that. I've come to the conclusion that role is baked into Namor's characterization as The Other. As well as editorial's refusal to support the character and give him his own book where he is the hero of his own damn story, instead of always playing some other character's antagonist / villain.

I really want one!

I know, right? These are kind of cropped views, and if you check out his site or social media, and see the whole shadow box frame, they are really cool. Of course, I see it, and go ... I could make one of those.... in my non-existent free time. LOL!

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Namor and his people are the reason she won.

Oscars dont like rewarding sequels. However, the costumes were so inventive it just couldn't be denied.

[Reviresco]

Namor and his people are the reason she won.

Oscars dont like rewarding sequels. However, the costumes were so inventive it just couldn't be denied.

I agree. Even though she expanded on the Wakandan costumes, like the River Tribe, creating another world, with the amazing Talokonil costumes, based in Mayan history, which had to hold underwater! I'm glad she was recognized.

[Reviresco]

I didn't see Tenoch Huerta on the carpet for the Oscars, but he was at the Vanity Fair after party! Looking quite dapper.





With Diego Calva & Pedro Pascal -- who I think were all in Narcos Mexico.







He was in town the day before on an Oscar panel for Hair and Make-up, since they were nominated.

[Doombot]

I also think that Namor, both in movies and comics, makes some people uncomfortable, which seems to be baked into the origin of the character, but why that's more of a problem now, in more liberal times is a mystery to me.

Hi Rev, can you elaborate on this thought?

[Doombot]

How does everyone feel about or view Namor & The Atlanteans when it comes to religion? Do you see Namor as a pious character, should he be? Does Namor pray? Would Namor's religious devotion be an interesting flipside to the infamous pompous, arrogant aspect of his nature? What does religious belief or faith mean in a world where you can literally get into fistfights with Gods?

"Your blossoms are waves, O Gracious One" Thought that was a nice little line.

[Reviresco]

I can always count on you to make me actually think about things and answers, Doombot.

I also think that Namor, both in movies and comics, makes some people uncomfortable, which seems to be baked into the origin of the character, but why that's more of a problem now, in more liberal times is a mystery to me.

Hi Rev, can you elaborate on this thought?

Namor was created to be the Other. He's a collection of traits that signify a stranger, which at an instinctive level, makes people nervous, cautious, uncomfortable. At the reptile brain level, we are comfortable with what we know, with our tribe. Which is not to say to we can't rise above and understand what is actually dangerous, and what is different -- which allegedly, is something we realize in our more enlightened liberal times, as opposed to the less liberal minded era Namor was created in. Which, strangely enough, happens to be his most popular time, as opposed to now, where he gets so much hate, both in the comics and the MCU.


He looks different.

He IS different.

He comes from the ocean, which carries a whole slew of things people aren't comfortable with physically, mentally, mythologically, etc.

He comes from a different culture, which carries a whole slew of things people aren't comfortable with like religion, government, mores, sexual and social interactions, etc.

And his civilization is one that is in conflict with ours, for some very understandable reasons.

He also comes from a class that most of us aren't accustomed to.

And then there's a segment of fans that aren't comfortable with a guy running around in a speedo.

All these things can also force people to think about how they view the world and others not of their tribe, and that isn't comfortable either. Namor wasn't created to be a comforting hero to the average 1939 American. I wish Everett had talked more about his creation, because it's unique, IMO, especially for the time.


Hopefully that clarifies what I was trying to say.

[Reviresco]

How does everyone feel about or view Namor & The Atlanteans when it comes to religion? Do you see Namor as a pious character, should he be? Does Namor pray? Would Namor's religious devotion be an interesting flipside to the infamous pompous, arrogant aspect of his nature? What does religious belief or faith mean in a world where you can literally get into fistfights with Gods?

"Your blossoms are waves, O Gracious One" Thought that was a nice little line.

That was a cool video. Makes me want to go watch Tarsem Singh's Immortals again. It was even cooler to hear a Greek hymn to Poseidon. People always talk about water manipulation, but giving Namor the Earth Shaker powers would be scary too.

Like much of Namor's history, it's a bit of a mess, depending on the writer.

We've seen Namor pray before. It's hard to say what would constitute as pious for Neptune. I think he's more about worship and sacrifice. Regardless, Namor was far more ... religious / spiritual back in his own book. Remember when he went to the Grotto of Ancients and got the prophecy and the blessing of Neptune carved on his belt?

Of course, he didn't have much use for the state religion and priests, back in the day.

And then there was ... story where Pak and Van Lente had the Amazons take Neptune hostage. They've also had him serve as Neptune's champion. He's clearly humble before Neptune, even if he doesn't agree with him, like in that Avengers story.

Like you said, it's a bit difficult to grasp, because it's so different. I mean, there's no need for faith, because the gods have walked amongst the people. They also clearly don't expect omniscience from Neptune, either. It's curious too, as far as NOT worshiping other gods in the pantheon, which they did Greece. But apparently, they DO have other gods, older sea gods that they worship -- though perhaps in secret. Which begs the question, are the Atlanteans tolerant of other gods?

[Doombot]

I can always count on you to make me actually think about things and answers, Doombot.

BahHaha

Namor was created to be the Other. He's a collection of traits that signify a stranger, which at an instinctive level, makes people nervous, cautious, uncomfortable. At the reptile brain level, we are comfortable with what we know, with our tribe. Which is not to say to we can't rise above and understand what is actually dangerous, and what is different -- which allegedly, is something we realize in our more enlightened liberal times, as opposed to the less liberal minded era Namor was created in. Which, strangely enough, happens to be his most popular time, as opposed to now, where he gets so much hate, both in the comics and the MCU.


He looks different.

He IS different.

He comes from the ocean, which carries a whole slew of things people aren't comfortable with physically, mentally, mythologically, etc.

He comes from a different culture, which carries a whole slew of things people aren't comfortable with like religion, government, mores, sexual and social interactions, etc.

And his civilization is one that is in conflict with ours, for some very understandable reasons.

He also comes from a class that most of us aren't accustomed to.

And then there's a segment of fans that aren't comfortable with a guy running around in a speedo.

All these things can also force people to think about how they view the world and others not of their tribe, and that isn't comfortable either. Namor wasn't created to be a comforting hero to the average 1939 American. I wish Everett had talked more about his creation, because it's unique, IMO, especially for the time.


Hopefully that clarifies what I was trying to say.

I did understand what you were saying, I just wanted you to expand on it, as it's an interesting topic. Especially the idea, or observation really, that Namor as a character makes people nervous or slightly uncomfortable. It's also very interesting, as you say, that Namor was much more popular in a time that is supposedly much less enlightened than today. Which of course could lead to another conversation about what enlightened and liberal actually mean and a collective look in the mirror.

Comparing Namor to the other big "Other" character of that time: Superman, it's quite a difference between the two, as Superman is raised by human parents and does everything in his power to conform and be like "us", and is absolutely adored worldwide for it. Whereas Namor is completely unapologetic in his "Otherness", even going as far as killing humans and stating hatred for them. And he is always met with fear and mistrust. Yet, being half human, he is more human than Superman could ever hope be. I wonder if the difference is that Namor more genuinely expresses true humanity, with all it's prejudices, anger and hate, along with nobility, compassion and love, while Superman represents only how we'd like or wish ourselves to be seen.

[Doombot]

That was a cool video. Makes me want to go watch Tarsem Singh's Immortals again. It was even cooler to hear a Greek hymn to Poseidon. People always talk about water manipulation, but giving Namor the Earth Shaker powers would be scary too.

Like much of Namor's history, it's a bit of a mess, depending on the writer.

We've seen Namor pray before. It's hard to say what would constitute as pious for Neptune. I think he's more about worship and sacrifice. Regardless, Namor was far more ... religious / spiritual back in his own book. Remember when he went to the Grotto of Ancients and got the prophecy and the blessing of Neptune carved on his belt?

Of course, he didn't have much use for the state religion and priests, back in the day.

And then there was ... story where Pak and Van Lente had the Amazons take Neptune hostage. They've also had him serve as Neptune's champion. He's clearly humble before Neptune, even if he doesn't agree with him, like in that Avengers story.

Like you said, it's a bit difficult to grasp, because it's so different. I mean, there's no need for faith, because the gods have walked amongst the people. They also clearly don't expect omniscience from Neptune, either. It's curious too, as far as NOT worshiping other gods in the pantheon, which they did Greece. But apparently, they DO have other gods, older sea gods that they worship -- though perhaps in secret. Which begs the question, are the Atlanteans tolerant of other gods?

Just within the ancient Greek world, there were many sea gods, but also the older generations, the Titans and their own parents, the more primordial gods like Ouranos, Pontus and Gaia, which the Greeks were all aware of. I'm sure Atlanteans would have cults to all these gods. Then you have even deeper, darker beings that would have been worshipped, which is where someone like Suma-Ket comes in.

[Reviresco]

BahHaha

That's a pretty accurate gif of me when I read the post. ;p

It was like, oh noe. Fire up the neurons! Engage brain!!

I did understand what you were saying, I just wanted you to expand on it, as it's an interesting topic. Especially the idea, or observation really, that Namor as a character makes people nervous or slightly uncomfortable. It's also very interesting, as you say, that Namor was much more popular in a time that is supposedly much less enlightened than today. Which of course could lead to another conversation about what enlightened and liberal actually mean and a collective look in the mirror.

Comparing Namor to the other big "Other" character of that time: Superman, it's quite a difference between the two, as Superman is raised by human parents and does everything in his power to conform and be like "us", and is absolutely adored worldwide for it. Whereas Namor is completely unapologetic in his "Otherness", even going as far as killing humans and stating hatred for them. And he is always met with fear and mistrust. Yet, being half human, he is more human than Superman could ever hope be. I wonder if the difference is that Namor more genuinely expresses true humanity, with all it's prejudices, anger and hate, along with nobility, compassion and love, while Superman represents only how we'd like or wish ourselves to be seen.

Great observation about Supes and Namor!

I think being unapologetic also bothers and makes people uncomfortable. He's definitely what folks back then would call 'uppity.'

It's funny, because before talking about Everett's intention, I had started to write that he may have intended Namor as a mirror for his readers. Like many SF aliens, he allows folks to see just how their actions and views look. GMTA! That's definitely part of Namor's appeal to me, that he's flawed. He's not perfect like Superman, who I never really could relate to, like I do Namor.


It is an interesting subject and it's been part of my endless pondering on why Namor isn't as popular as he was in the Golden Age.

I think part of it, concerning the comparisons of the eras, is that while the 1940s were less enlightened in many ways that touch directly on Namor's Otherness, in other ways, it was a time where there WAS a progressive movement in society, a demand that government work of the public, not the wealthy, and a backlash against those in power, and the elites who brought about the Great Depression. We had unions forming and FDR pushing a variety of government safety nets, like Social Security. Despite people crying about the politics in comics now, both Namor and Superman regularly dealt with political issues. Fighting Nazis BEFORE we entered the war, was definitely a political statement. Ditto punching cops -- who still had a reputation for corruption.

Nowadays, I think part of the problem is that we are reverting to our tribes -- political and racial, which doesn't help a character that is Other and yet "claimed" by a variety of groups to fit their views.

But back to Namor making people uncomfortable ... I think that's something that most modern writers forget. Namor being arrogant or an ass isn't just a personality a trait of a regular human. Which is why I liked when Stuart Moore talked about Namor always looking shiny -- like a glamour.