IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[ImperiusWrecked]

Prince. Of. The. Blood.
Atlanteans will happily take mutated Lemurian mind-meshed weirdoes, as long as they're not Namor. They can LOOK like Namor. Obvious EVIL Namors even, but NOT Namor himself, no sir. He's a bum who plays with humans.

Also, going over these books reveals that Atlantis has been destroyed even MORE times than we discussed a month or two ago.

sdkhsdjs nooo not Llyron! its a story arc that infuriates me because it makes no logical sense!

we really need to do a tally of all the times Atlantis has been destroyed. lol

[ImperiusWrecked]

You're right about Llyron & The Fathom Five appearing in the T-Bolts reboot, but their assault was on lower Manhattan...





The Great Game were the ones that attacked the U.N., while Namor was addressing the General Assembly...

oh damn I forgot sea leopard showed up here too, that is him I think in the corner.

[ImperiusWrecked]

King Namor by Rudy Ao

[ImperiusWrecked]

And both of them are actually still alive. Tamara is interesting, because she once had a relationship with Namor, but now doesn't. AND she had a relationship with Tiger Shark, but now doesn't. So, I guess she's just floating around by herself?

I really loved her and Tiger Shark together, wish she would come back in the comics.

[Doombot]

sdkhsdjs nooo not Llyron! its a story arc that infuriates me because it makes no logical sense!

we really need to do a tally of all the times Atlantis has been destroyed. lol

So here's a question, would everyone have accepted Llyron more if the twist/shock ending was he was just a clone or that he was legitimately Namor's son? Llyra showing up with a "son" that looks much like Namor isn't a terrible premise, how would you fix it?

[Doombot]

oh damn I forgot sea leopard showed up here too, that is him I think in the corner.

That's definitely Sea Leopard, a super weird villain in his own right, but very tough. Llyron looks as if the years since the Namor series have not been kind. He's withering down to chicken legs and his trunks are too big lol.

[Reviresco]

LOL, well to be fair I love x-men but even I think they aren't the right fit for Namor and I am tired of him being on the x-men or the avengers, as I've said before the only modern team Namor should ever be on is The Defenders. Ideally Marvel should let Namor have an ongoing and put him on Defenders for wild adventures. Come on Marvel, let's send Namor and the Defenders to a dimension where they have to use the power of rock and roll to fight the bad guys(?)

I so love this pic you commissioned! It's great! And of all books, The Defenders is the one where it could actually happen. I mean they sent the Defenders to Dr. Seuss world.

I do love the Defenders, but the Invaders is my favorite team for him.

I still maintain, that Nam or is the most X-Men of the X-Men, but they will never give him a leading role there -- too many mutants that fans want to see more. The X-men was good for exposure, and at least they were willing to give him an ongoing.

Exactly. That's the same arguement I used whenever fans used to complain about Namor not supporting the mutants or x-men, because really the only time the x-men helped the Atlanteans was back during Utopia and only because they had a pact with Namor.

Did they really? We had more dead Atlanteans washing up on the shore during this time than any other time Namor was on a team. It was decimating.

Atlantis, Martinas (? cant remember the spelling but its the city where Nita was born iirc), Lemuria, Oceanus, Tha-Korr's City, that one outer village Namora visited during her comic where she saved those people from a kraken, and there's just no real set map or known locations outside of this that I can remember. I actually want to commission an undersea map art of various points of interest in the Sub-Mariner Lore but that would mean I need to deep dive back into the comics and list out every location.

edit: there's no updated map, the old maps lack so much detail.

I don't think they put any of the communities that have been revealed were ever put on the maps. Something else that's been neglected for Namor. But there's the reefs that Abira and the Tridents came from. There's the city Namor visited in the 1984 mini-series. There's Deluvia. There's Skaara where Attuma's barbarians live. I'm sure there's plenty more I'm forgetting.

[ImperiusWrecked]

So here's a question, would everyone have accepted Llyron more if the twist/shock ending was he was just a clone or that he was legitimately Namor's son? Llyra showing up with a "son" that looks much like Namor isn't a terrible premise, how would you fix it?

If the comics had made him a clone then yeah I would have been more ok with the plot because then its just a matter of the atlanteans being total hypocrites (again) and stupid by letting a clone on the throne even tho they didn't want any clones in atlantis. Or if he was actually Namor's son then I would hate it but accept it more, however it would also need to address the fact that Namor was r/ped by Llyra if they wanted to keep Llyron around. But he wasn't a clone, he wasn't Namor's son, he was the son of Namor's half brother (another plot point I hate) so its just SO STUPID that the Atlanteans say he has ANY claim to the throne, both parents aren't even Atlantean! Attuma had more claim than Llyron!

That's definitely Sea Leopard, a super weird villain in his own right, but very tough. Llyron looks as if the years since the Namor series have not been kind. He's withering down to chicken legs and his trunks are too big lol.

No bat wings either, lol.

[Doombot]

But they are such tragic stories. And probably why we don't see more of her.

There's something we rarely see in a Namor book. Space exploration. Though, of course, Tamara is alien. And there was Stalker from the Stars. It's not a natural jump, given their separation from the stars by the depths of the ocean.

It is strange how, because the stories in Sub-Mariner are in the sea, space and alien stories seem extra weird or silly, yet when aliens come to the surface no one bats an eye.

I would very much like a story where Tamara is searching the stars for some trace of her people. Also, a few years ago it was discovered that one of Jupiter's moons, Europa, is covered by a huge ocean under it's surface. What if some aquatic race had developed a colony there? What if a crashed Banari vessel is there in stasis and Tamara discovers it? How would Atlantis react to an entire ocean covered moon, would they want to abandon Earth, feeling they're have more freedom and safety there?

LOL! I love that small panel, where after the Thunderbolts deliver an 'ultimatium' Namor shuts them down with, "Or what?"

That's a great splash page of the Fathom Five. And it goes back to the religion conversation, where you have different cults and groups in Atlantis. Though, anyone calling on Nagala and Shakkoth is probably not a good thing.

Wouldn't he be calling upon Set? Reading the original arc, he says a curse using Poseidon, instead of Neptune for one, and two, why didn't he say Set? Pffft, writers.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I so love this pic you commissioned! It's great! And of all books, The Defenders is the one where it could actually happen. I mean they sent the Defenders to Dr. Seuss world.

I do love the Defenders, but the Invaders is my favorite team for him.

I still maintain, that Namor is the most X-Men of the X-Men, but they will never give him a leading role there -- too many mutants that fans want to see more. The X-men was good for exposure, and at least they were willing to give him an ongoing.


Did they really? We had more dead Atlanteans washing up on the shore during this time than any other time Namor was on a team. It was decimating.


I don't think they put any of the communities that have been revealed were ever put on the maps. Something else that's been neglected for Namor. But there's the reefs that Abira and the Tridents came from. There's the city Namor visited in the 1984 mini-series. There's Deluvia. There's Skaara where Attuma's barbarians live. I'm sure there's plenty more I'm forgetting.

Thanks! I really love it, and I love the Invaders so much but for a modern team it's Defenders for me. Invaders set in modern times just never seems to stick, but I would love to see someone take on a longer run.


They helped like one or two times but it was help, and they literally only did it because the lived in close proximity to the Atlanteans and they and Namor had that deal, but they really don't ever help the Atlanteans at any other time. This is why it makes no sense for Namor to care about the human mutants either, he might side with the underdog but I don't feel that stating "loyalty" to the mutant cause is ever a good reason for him to put mutants above his own people.

Ohh yeah thanks for the reminder, I def need to compile a list of cities under the sea.

[Doombot]

If the comics had made him a clone then yeah I would have been more ok with the plot because then its just a matter of the atlanteans being total hypocrites (again) and stupid by letting a clone on the throne even tho they didn't want any clones in atlantis. Or if he was actually Namor's son then I would hate it but accept it more, however it would also need to address the fact that Namor was r/ped by Llyra if they wanted to keep Llyron around. But he wasn't a clone, he wasn't Namor's son, he was the son of Namor's half brother (another plot point I hate) so its just SO STUPID that the Atlanteans say he has ANY claim to the throne, both parents aren't even Atlantean! Attuma had more claim than Llyron!

Llyron being his son of not doesn't change the fact Llyra did do that to Namor, as well as Leonard's grandson, AND she basically did it to her own son by forcing her own mind/memories into his mind. Llyra is a bad bad lady.

No bat wings either, lol.

Well, that's par for the course really, we know artists forget them on Namor often too.

[Reviresco]

oh damn I forgot sea leopard showed up here too, that is him I think in the corner.

That's definitely Sea Leopard, a super weird villain in his own right, but very tough. Llyron looks as if the years since the Namor series have not been kind. He's withering down to chicken legs and his trunks are too big lol.

Yep, it's Sea Leopard. He never really got much play, other than his debut and here, IIRC.

I don't think this artist did either Llyron or Namor much good. I mean, look at that hair line on Namor.

I really loved her and Tiger Shark together, wish she would come back in the comics.

I wish they kept them together. We could have gotten so much better stories for both of them. They've basically reduced Tiger Shark to a goon. Except for Fear Itself the Deep, where they had that weir and horrifying two headed Tiger Shark, they really haven't treated him as terrifying as he should be.

[Doombot]

What annoys me about both Sea Leopard and Tigershark is that both of their design are influenced by the land animal that the sea animal is named after. Tigershark has the black and orange zigzag, which are mean to look tiger-like and Sea Leopard has a cat-like look to his face, and well as being covered with rosettes (leopard spots) and a tail. I'm just like... why.

[K7P5V]

But they are such tragic stories. And probably why we don't see more of her.

There's something we rarely see in a Namor book. Space exploration. Though, of course, Tamara is alien. And there was Stalker from the Stars. It's not a natural jump, given their separation from the stars by the depths of the ocean.

Indeed. Water-breathers in space is always entertaining (IMHO):

Yep, it's Sea Leopard. He never really got much play, other than his debut and here, IIRC.

I don't think this artist did either Llyron or Namor much good. I mean, look at that hair line on Namor.

LOL! That same artist put Namor back in that costume Reed Richards made for him...

[ImperiusWrecked]

Llyron being his son of not doesn't change the fact Llyra did do that to Namor, as well as Leonard's grandson, AND she basically did it to her own son by forcing her own mind/memories into his mind. Llyra is a bad bad lady.

Well, that's par for the course really, we know artists forget them on Namor often too.

It def doesn't erase what Llyra did and it's addressed in one comic but after that it's forgotten or never mentioned again, however I feel that if Llyron was actually Namor's son then that glaring fact would be harder for writers to ignore. Llyra is horrible but I wish she was back in the comics because she's the perfect kind of horrible to make plots move forward and cause issues for Namor.

Yep, it's Sea Leopard. He never really got much play, other than his debut and here, IIRC.

I don't think this artist did either Llyron or Namor much good. I mean, look at that hair line on Namor.

I wish they kept them together. We could have gotten so much better stories for both of them. They've basically reduced Tiger Shark to a goon. Except for Fear Itself the Deep, where they had that weir and horrifying two headed Tiger Shark, they really haven't treated him as terrifying as he should be.

Tamara/Tigershark for the win! Yeah it sucks they don't put any effort into Namor's rogue gallery and the few times we are close to them having some nuance its always ignored or forgotten by the next writer.

What annoys me about both Sea Leopard and Tigershark is that both of their design are influenced by the land animal that the sea animal is named after. Tigershark has the black and orange zigzag, which are mean to look tiger-like and Sea Leopard has a cat-like look to his face, and well as being covered with rosettes (leopard spots) and a tail. I'm just like... why.

Its both Big Cats as well, but I like Tigersharks og look more than the other stuff they did with him.