IMPERIUS REX! Namor the Sub-Mariner Appreciation 2023

[Reviresco]

Well yes, I know there are Atlantean magic users and seemingly priests of all sorts, but I meant specifically I wonder if there is an elite class or single highest title of sorcerer in Atlantean society. Something that they view as their own equivalent to the Sorcerer Supreme, or even beyond that. As we know, the Atlantean elite can be pretty, well, elitist lol I can imagine some serious snobbery and arrogance in the secreted off world of Atlantean magic. Plus I'm also sure there would be a huge legitimate inheritance of magical knowledge being passed down from the deep past that is available nowhere else but in Atlantis.

The thing about the Sorcerer Supreme being the protector/defender of this entire dimension is hard to swallow. I get that he stops Dormammu or Nightmare from crossing over, but I mean, we barely see him outside of NY or the USA, forget fighting mystical threats in China, or on the Skrull homeworld or facing off against whatever god the Brood worship or whatever. I know it's just comics, and I absolutely love Dr. Strange, but it's always been such a convenience that when Dormammu tries to create a rift between dimensions it isn't in some part of the universe that is so far from Earth that we don't even have a name for it.

I agree. Far too often, it seems Strange is really Earth's defender, rather the dimension. It's the NYC effect, I imagine. But then again, we have Clea and Magik here on Earth, while being another dimensions Sorcerer Supreme, so ...

There is definitely an Atlantean library, and probably a vault of magical artifacts. That amulet he gave Betty Dean, that Loa ended up with was from his grandfather's vault.

There definitely was a set up for 'head' / royal job title. I imagine that's why Moore created the Logomancer. I also remember a story where Namor had a bunch of magicians working on something, but not entirely successfully ... will have to see if I can dig that out. Anyway, how they regard themselves in comparison to the Sorcerer Supreme ... I'd love to see it explored. I would think, at the very least, that they practice a form of magic that isn't known or used on the surface.

I think I've said this before, but I wish they'd use the fact that Namor is a conduit of major magic. He should be a giant magic battery for magic users. Or even give a nod to the magical blood. There's plenty of reasons for Namor and Strange (or other magic users) to team up with Namor or deal with Atlantean magic. Heck, I'd like to see Strange help Namor with the Black Tide.

Back to Thor ... I have to wonder if Fraction wasn't setting up a connection between the Atlanteans and the Asgardians in Fear Itself. IIRC, the big bad, Odin's brother? Dad? was sealed away underwater in the deep. Plus, Red Skull used Atlanteans for the sacrifice to summon the hammers, but got trolls or something -- but the point was that Atlanteans worked better than airbreathers as sacrifices. IIRC, the book of spells was covered in Atlantean skin. That story got hijack for an event, so I wonder if Namor stuff got jettisoned when that happened?

[MichaelC]

Has there ever been a What If issue where Galactus lands in Atlantis instead of New York?

[Reviresco]

Has there ever been a What If issue where Galactus lands in Atlantis instead of New York?

No, not that I've seen. But I'm not sure that would make much of a difference.

[Doombot]

Has there ever been a What If issue where Galactus lands in Atlantis instead of New York?

No, not that I've seen. But I'm not sure that would make much of a difference.

I'm not sure what Atlantis could have done to stop him. We haven't seen sorcery do much to Galactus, aside from freak him out when at his absolute weakest point. In the classic arc, it took the Watcher cheating and the use of the Ultimate Nullifier to drive him off.
(I still don't know how I feel about that recent story where Galactus started consuming magical dimensions)

[Doombot]

I agree. Far too often, it seems Strange is really Earth's defender, rather the dimension. It's the NYC effect, I imagine. But then again, we have Clea and Magik here on Earth, while being another dimensions Sorcerer Supreme, so ...

There is definitely an Atlantean library, and probably a vault of magical artifacts. That amulet he gave Betty Dean, that Loa ended up with was from his grandfather's vault.

There definitely was a set up for 'head' / royal job title. I imagine that's why Moore created the Logomancer. I also remember a story where Namor had a bunch of magicians working on something, but not entirely successfully ... will have to see if I can dig that out. Anyway, how they regard themselves in comparison to the Sorcerer Supreme ... I'd love to see it explored. I would think, at the very least, that they practice a form of magic that isn't known or used on the surface.

I think I've said this before, but I wish they'd use the fact that Namor is a conduit of major magic. He should be a giant magic battery for magic users. Or even give a nod to the magical blood. There's plenty of reasons for Namor and Strange (or other magic users) to team up with Namor or deal with Atlantean magic. Heck, I'd like to see Strange help Namor with the Black Tide.

I'm all for Namor and Strange teaming up, as often as possible. But what would Namor being a conduit or battery for magic users look like?

Back to Thor ... I have to wonder if Fraction wasn't setting up a connection between the Atlanteans and the Asgardians in Fear Itself. IIRC, the big bad, Odin's brother? Dad? was sealed away underwater in the deep. Plus, Red Skull used Atlanteans for the sacrifice to summon the hammers, but got trolls or something -- but the point was that Atlanteans worked better than airbreathers as sacrifices. IIRC, the book of spells was covered in Atlantean skin. That story got hijack for an event, so I wonder if Namor stuff got jettisoned when that happened?

I don't really remember Atlantean involvement in fear itself, but it's been a while. Cul is the name of Odin's, up until then, secret brother. He is extremely powerful and the story sort of had him replace in the mythos, Jormungand, the World Serpent, that is destined to kill Thor at the end of time. He's also the force behind the creation of the mystical hammers that were distributed to many characters, one going to Attuma. I'm assuming the Atlanteans were pulled into the story in order to have a Marvel wide event that actually included the oceans for once.

All that aside, I would love to have some crossing over or connections between Asgard, Thor and Atlantis. I had once thought about a story idea with Namor traveling deep into the northern sea, perhaps getting lost or searching for something, and realizing he had now found himself in unfamiliar waters. Coming ashore in the middle of a herd of elephant seals on the beach the size city buses and dark forests and mountains beyond that would make it clear he was no longer home, he had unwittingly followed "Ran's Road" and now finds himself in Jotunheim. The concept being that in the most isolated places, the deepest most remote parts of the oceans (or deepest forests, the most remote centers of deserts ect) you can actually cross over into one or more of the 9 Realms. I also had a similar concept where Namor has to strike a deal with the gorgon Medusa to reclaim her two sisters from the land of the dead, and to do so he must enter and swim deep into a hidden cave in the Mediterranean Sea, and upon reaching the end of the cave, he finds he'd now entered and was swimming into the realm of Pluto. While searching for the gorgon sisters, he discovers the final resting place of his own people, in a section or realm of the Underworld called the Shimmering Seas. He is so drawn to this realm, and all of his ancestors, full of warmth, love and acceptance far beyond what he'd ever felt in his life that Dorma herself must save him, as she so often did in life, and show him the way out again. His escape from this realm, and his discovery of the gorgon sisters would all piss Pluto off something fierce and he would have to fight his way out of the Underworld. I hadn't worked out if he would come through on his promise to deliver the gorgons, or if there was double crossing shenannigans by Medusa, Pluto, Namor himself or all of the above.

[K7P5V]

Yeah, I think Imp has a thread on all the villains wanting to get their hands on Namor. LOL!

Was this the first appearance for Thanos too? Or was it the next issue?

Next Issue (IM #55), for the 1st appearance of Thanos

[Reviresco]

Thanks, K7P5V! I knew you'd be on it.

[Reviresco]

I'm all for Namor and Strange teaming up, as often as possible. But what would Namor being a conduit or battery for magic users look like?

There should definitely be some issues with it, or it would have happened before. Though, clearly, I don't think other magic users are aware of it, so it isn't advertised. Not to mention, I don't see Atlanteans being all that keen on sharing their 'power source.' We got something related when the Logomancer amped up Namor with magic to hold up Utopia. I don't know exactly how it would look, but it could be fun, if there were side effects, due to it being Atlantean. Kind of like of like Wanda's old probability hexes -- with an aquatic theme.

I don't really remember Atlantean involvement in fear itself, but it's been a while. Cul is the name of Odin's, up until then, secret brother. He is extremely powerful and the story sort of had him replace in the mythos, Jormungand, the World Serpent, that is destined to kill Thor at the end of time. He's also the force behind the creation of the mystical hammers that were distributed to many characters, one going to Attuma. I'm assuming the Atlanteans were pulled into the story in order to have a Marvel wide event that actually included the oceans for once.

Yes, the oceans and Namor were included because Fraction was actually a Namor fan and it was his event.

Right. Most of it was in Fear Itself The Book of the Skull and happened in WWII. Red Skull used a book of spells covered with Atlantean skin, and sacrificed Atlanteans (because they worked better / were needed to succeed) to summon the Hammer of Skaldi, which was used later to free Cul. And the hammer fell in Antarctica.

They could definitely explore the connection between the Midgard Serpent / Cul and Atlantis, since it is in their sphere.

All that aside, I would love to have some crossing over or connections between Asgard, Thor and Atlantis. I had once thought about a story idea with Namor traveling deep into the northern sea, perhaps getting lost or searching for something, and realizing he had now found himself in unfamiliar waters. Coming ashore in the middle of a herd of elephant seals on the beach the size city buses and dark forests and mountains beyond that would make it clear he was no longer home, he had unwittingly followed "Ran's Road" and now finds himself in Jotunheim. The concept being that in the most isolated places, the deepest most remote parts of the oceans (or deepest forests, the most remote centers of deserts ect) you can actually cross over into one or more of the 9 Realms. I also had a similar concept where Namor has to strike a deal with the gorgon Medusa to reclaim her two sisters from the land of the dead, and to do so he must enter and swim deep into a hidden cave in the Mediterranean Sea, and upon reaching the end of the cave, he finds he'd now entered and was swimming into the realm of Pluto. While searching for the gorgon sisters, he discovers the final resting place of his own people, in a section or realm of the Underworld called the Shimmering Seas. He is so drawn to this realm, and all of his ancestors, full of warmth, love and acceptance far beyond what he'd ever felt in his life that Dorma herself must save him, as she so often did in life, and show him the way out again. His escape from this realm, and his discovery of the gorgon sisters would all piss Pluto off something fierce and he would have to fight his way out of the Underworld. I hadn't worked out if he would come through on his promise to deliver the gorgons, or if there was double crossing shenannigans by Medusa, Pluto, Namor himself or all of the above.

Those are great ideas! I love the sea portals idea and it is canon. They've used it a few times with Namor. Plus it fits the myths of the oceans / water being portals to the 'underworld' or being the underworld / otherworld itself. I wish Marvel would invest in Namor and his world with stories like these.

Also ... Go Dorma!!

[Reviresco]

A smaller piece by Paola Rivera

You can see him painting it on his Instagram

I think the 'crest' at the bottom was a nice touch and design.

[Oberon]

I'm all for Namor and Strange teaming up, as often as possible. But what would Namor being a conduit or battery for magic users look like?




I don't really remember Atlantean involvement in fear itself, but it's been a while. Cul is the name of Odin's, up until then, secret brother. He is extremely powerful and the story sort of had him replace in the mythos, Jormungand, the World Serpent, that is destined to kill Thor at the end of time. He's also the force behind the creation of the mystical hammers that were distributed to many characters, one going to Attuma. I'm assuming the Atlanteans were pulled into the story in order to have a Marvel wide event that actually included the oceans for once.

All that aside, I would love to have some crossing over or connections between Asgard, Thor and Atlantis. I had once thought about a story idea with Namor traveling deep into the northern sea, perhaps getting lost or searching for something, and realizing he had now found himself in unfamiliar waters. Coming ashore in the middle of a herd of elephant seals on the beach the size city buses and dark forests and mountains beyond that would make it clear he was no longer home, he had unwittingly followed "Ran's Road" and now finds himself in Jotunheim. The concept being that in the most isolated places, the deepest most remote parts of the oceans (or deepest forests, the most remote centers of deserts ect) you can actually cross over into one or more of the 9 Realms. I also had a similar concept where Namor has to strike a deal with the gorgon Medusa to reclaim her two sisters from the land of the dead, and to do so he must enter and swim deep into a hidden cave in the Mediterranean Sea, and upon reaching the end of the cave, he finds he'd now entered and was swimming into the realm of Pluto. While searching for the gorgon sisters, he discovers the final resting place of his own people, in a section or realm of the Underworld called the Shimmering Seas. He is so drawn to this realm, and all of his ancestors, full of warmth, love and acceptance far beyond what he'd ever felt in his life that Dorma herself must save him, as she so often did in life, and show him the way out again. His escape from this realm, and his discovery of the gorgon sisters would all piss Pluto off something fierce and he would have to fight his way out of the Underworld. I hadn't worked out if he would come through on his promise to deliver the gorgons, or if there was double crossing shenannigans by Medusa, Pluto, Namor himself or all of the above.

I love stories with 'portals'. I'm reading a series with time-travel portals. But I could see what you're saying and those ideas are pretty cool.

Of course Atlantis would have magical users. They are Pagans of some sort or another and most Pagans believe in an enchanted type world, with practices and objects that might have value today.

[Reviresco]

I love stories with 'portals'. I'm reading a series with time-travel portals. But I could see what you're saying and those ideas are pretty cool.

Of course Atlantis would have magical users. They are Pagans of some sort or another and most Pagans believe in an enchanted type world, with practices and objects that might have value today.

Cool. What series is that, if you don't mind me asking?

It could be interesting if the Atlanteans developed their own portal / teleporting abilities in water, like it was speculated in the movie.

That's a good point. While we were talking about the Sorcerer Supreme, there's also the variety of magics that could be explored in Atlantis. Even the difference between clerical and non-clerical magic. You don't see too much of that in comics.

[Reviresco]

Having old memories for paper dolls, I was thrilled and amazed to find this piece of fun.



From by Cory Jensen on Instagram.

[ImperiusWrecked]

that paper doll art is wonderful!!!

[JT221]

A smaller piece by Paola Rivera

You can see him painting it on his Instagram

I think the 'crest' at the bottom was a nice touch and design.

THAT is awesome!

[Reviresco]

THAT is awesome!

I do like a Riviera piece. He's done some wonderful work and he's very generous with sharing his process. Watching him paint it in that Instagram link was like magic.

And welcome to the thread!