Dick Grayson/Robin/Nightwing/Batman Appreciation 2023.

[Iclifton]

Grayson gave Dick Grayson the chance to break out of Batman's shadow he explored sections of DC that even Batman didn't go, Wildstorm & Vertigo characters were running rampant in that book just wish Nightwing would go in that direction & explore his days as an operative

I love Grayson but imo he is out of Bruces shadow in this run. Taylors run has had other Bat characters but has also had Titans and the Super family. It is a pretty balanced take. Plus Bruce has had literally zero impact on this story. Even in Grayson he was on a mission FOR Bruce. The whole reason the run was interesting is because the status quo ran so counter to Dicks personality. At his core Dick is a Superhero. Grayson was always temporary.

IMO this is the most Dick has ever been treated like an A-lister. The main character of a Crisis event, leading the premiere DC team, training Clark`s son, made Bludhaven a much better and safer place to live, and is in a ton of books. This is the kind of status that you can build on.

I would like to see some more Wildstorm and Grayson characters though (Midnighter and Tiger).

[Frontier]

I love Grayson but imo he is out of Bruces shadow in this run. Taylors run has had other Bat characters but has also had Titans and the Super family. It is a pretty balanced take. Plus Bruce has had literally zero impact on this story. Even in Grayson he was on a mission FOR Bruce. The whole reason the run was interesting is because the status quo ran so counter to Dicks personality. At his core Dick is a Superhero. Grayson was always temporary.

IMO this is the most Dick has ever been treated like an A-lister. The main character of a Crisis event, leading the premiere DC team, training Clark`s son, made Bludhaven a much better and safer place to live, and is in a ton of books. This is the kind of status that you can build on.

I would like to see some more Wildstorm and Grayson characters though (Midnighter and Tiger).

Just pointing it out that the only time Bruce showed up in Seeley's run was to get kidnapped, in flashbacks, or to support Dick.

As cool as it was in theory I'm not sure leading probably one of the less than well-received events in recent memory is as much of a flex as I think it was intended to be. Dark Crisis just came and went and I don't think many want to look back on it.

[Iclifton]

Just pointing it out that the only time Bruce showed up in Seeley's run was to get kidnapped, in flashbacks, or to support Dick.

As cool as it was in theory I'm not sure leading probably one of the less than well-received events in recent memory is as much of a flex as I think it was intended to be. Dark Crisis just came and went and I don't think many want to look back on it.

Almost every DC/Marvel event is negatively received. TBH while not great, I do not think Dark Crisis was bad. Whatever the case, DC putting Dick in the forefront of a major event is a big deal. It shows investment.

Yeah, Seeley`s runs was good. Not a fan of his dialogue, Bludhaven arcs or any of the run-offs though.

[Frontier]

Almost every DC/Marvel event is negatively received. TBH while not great, I do not think Dark Crisis was bad. Whatever the case, DC putting Dick in the forefront of a major event is a big deal. It shows investment.

Yeah, Seeley`s runs was good. Not a fan of his dialogue, Bludhaven arcs or any of the run-offs though.

I guess to me it doesn't seem like there was a lot of post-Dark Crisis hype.

Personally I like Seeley's dialogue (felt like it was more distinct and had a bit of an edge to it compared to Taylor), his Bludhaven was very distinct and colorful, and I feel like the Run-Offs fit into the run better than the Titans have...but I also get that Seeley's heart wasn't in it.

[WonderNight]

I love Grayson but imo he is out of Bruces shadow in this run. Taylors run has had other Bat characters but has also had Titans and the Super family. It is a pretty balanced take. Plus Bruce has had literally zero impact on this story. Even in Grayson he was on a mission FOR Bruce. The whole reason the run was interesting is because the status quo ran so counter to Dicks personality. At his core Dick is a Superhero. Grayson was always temporary.

IMO this is the most Dick has ever been treated like an A-lister. The main character of a Crisis event, leading the premiere DC team, training Clark`s son, made Bludhaven a much better and safer place to live, and is in a ton of books. This is the kind of status that you can build on.

I would like to see some more Wildstorm and Grayson characters though (Midnighter and Tiger).

Well there's a difference between interacting with Batman and the Batfam vs being in Batman's shadow. Him interacting with Batman and Batman being in Dick's stories isn't the problem. It's Role/Niche redundancy. Grayson didn't have that problem. It had its own Niche and tone of its own, so much so that you could sell as a non Bat book even if it was. It's easy for casuals to look at nightwing and think hey it Batman Jr or Batman Lite. I think someone in this thread just said they heard normies referring to Nightwing as Blue Batman!! That's a problem.

It's great that nightwing is doing so well right now. It awesome. But can it last beyond Taylor and this push? Don't get me wrong. Nightwing is doing great and Dick should be Nightwing. It just Nightwing should have more Grayson elements as an ip to be less redundant with Batman. Nightwing becoming a global hero with adventures all over the DCU as his niche could do it. He could leave Bludhaven the Batgirls and or the Titans while he's away on missions.

I feel like that would be enough for normies and casuals to view nightwing as a DIFFERENT flavor of Bat and not a LESSER flavor of Batman!

Nightwing= Grayson style adventures
Batman= more traditional Gotham adventures.

But hey people gonna like what they like

[batnbreakfast]

Does Hush still look like Dick Grayson and does he Show up during Taylor s run? I bought the first trade but Not Sure if i should Keep reading

[Godlike13]

Well there's a difference between interacting with Batman and the Batfam vs being in Batman's shadow. Him interacting with Batman and Batman being in Dick's stories isn't the problem. It's Role/Niche redundancy. Grayson didn't have that problem. It had its own Niche and tone of its own, so much so that you could sell as a non Bat book even if it was. It's easy for casuals to look at nightwing and think hey it Batman Jr or Batman Lite. I think someone in this thread just said they heard normies referring to Nightwing as Blue Batman!! That's a problem.

It's great that nightwing is doing so well right now. It awesome. But can it last beyond Taylor and this push? Don't get me wrong. Nightwing is doing great and Dick should be Nightwing. It just Nightwing should have more Grayson elements as an ip to be less redundant with Batman. Nightwing becoming a global hero with adventures all over the DCU as his niche could do it. He could leave Bludhaven the Batgirls and or the Titans while he's away on missions.

I feel like that would be enough for normies and casuals to view nightwing as a DIFFERENT flavor of Bat and not a LESSER flavor of Batman!

Nightwing= Grayson style adventures
Batman= more traditional Gotham adventures.

But hey people gonna like what they like

The problem is when people care about it, when really is shouldn't matter. The character is long past that character arc, and if readers feel they are reading a lesser Batman story then DC is doing something wrong. Generally its not something readers should be even thinking about. Its also not something they need to overreach to distance the character from. Because what made Grayson different weren't necessarily the story elements, because honestly they were still playing with a lot of Bat toys, but it was how they were telling the stories. Its not necessarily what he's doing that needs to be different from Batman, its how they present what he's doing that needs to be different for him to feel different. Which isn't easy because their are a lot of readers who are so used to certain formulas. And so we get readers demanding more stakes, and want to see Nightwing lose or have to pay a price, and want to see more focus on the villain, etc, etc. All very Batman like stuff and things readers have become accustomed to.

[Frontier]

Does Hush still look like Dick Grayson and does he Show up during Taylor s run? I bought the first trade but Not Sure if i should Keep reading

I don't think Hush has appeared since then.

[Vordan]

Well I’ve been asking for Taylor to show Heartless isn’t just sitting around waiting for Nightwing, and he actually did do that in 105. Great art showcase from Redondo.

[Aahz]

Well there's a difference between interacting with Batman and the Batfam vs being in Batman's shadow. Him interacting with Batman and Batman being in Dick's stories isn't the problem. It's Role/Niche redundancy. Grayson didn't have that problem. It had its own Niche and tone of its own, so much so that you could sell as a non Bat book even if it was.

Yeah but with him fighting mostly unknown villains and teaming up with obscure characacters, I don't think that would have been really sustainable niche, and I don't think it would have sold as a non Bat book.

Nightwing becoming a global hero with adventures all over the DCU as his niche could do it.

This might sound good on paper, but the reality is the DCU has outside of the US not really much to offer, when it comes to villains (or heroes to team up with).

[Badou]

Really good issue. One of the best in Taylor's run so far. I've said it over and over but I love Redondo's art and this first person issue was a very unique way of allowing him to showcase his skills more. He's become maybe my favorite Nightwing artist ever, and Lucas' coloring complements it so well. They both draw Dick and Babs very attractively, Babs looked great in the Double Dare costume that was more fitting than her own costume, but also all the fun details like with facial expressions or meta references add to the tone and style that I like from the book.

I think this book is at its best when it really gets away from all the bigger plots Taylor is trying to do and focus on the more day to day superhero stuff while leaning on Dick's personality more. I've come to like Taylor's voice for Dick and I think he writes a fun playful dynamic with Babs. I haven't minded how their relationship has progressed. It's that stuff that kind of carries the book. The bigger Bludhaven plots, the sister story, and Heartless I haven't really enjoyed and think they are mostly bad. So I'd be completely fine with more simple stories like this.

[Ascended]

This might sound good on paper, but the reality is the DCU has outside of the US not really much to offer, when it comes to villains (or heroes to team up with).

I think there's enough stuff out there that it could be sustained. There's elements beyond the US that are pretty well established and popular, like Khandaq, stuff that is well established but needs some TLC to reach its potential, like Markovia, and forgotten elements that haven't been seen in ages that are basically just 'writing prompts' waiting to be used, like Pokolistan. Plus whatever wholly original content a writer would create for the premise.

And nothing says Dick can't do stuff in the US either.

I think Dick as a global adventurer has merit and could be workable, but (at least right now to get the idea off the ground) it'd require a writer who is willing and able to put in the effort of world-building. I don't think Taylor is the guy for that, looking at how he handled things in Jon Kent's book, but someone like PKJ, who did wonders for Warworld over in Action? That'd probably work. And we know that Nightwing is a consistent seller with a high sales floor, so there's some room for risk and experimentation without fear of sales dropping to dangerous levels.

Whether such a thing would maintain the high sales we're enjoying right now....who knows? But I don't think we should talk ourselves into thinking that current sales are our new normal. Maybe once Taylor and Redando leave DC will find other talent capable of keeping the book where it is, but we should probably assume the title's regular sales range is still the baseline expectation/normal.

[Aahz]

stuff that is well established but needs some TLC to reach its potential, like Markovia,

Markovia allways feels to me like it is several decades set in the past...

I don't think Taylor is the guy for that, looking at how he handled things in Jon Kent's book, but someone like PKJ, who did wonders for Warworld over in Action? That'd probably work.

With a talented writer who puts in a lot of effort, you can make a lot of things work, but it would really require a lot of work, and just like it is there isn't much that would really all that exciting for the readers.

And sofar I don't think that any attempt of DC to make more international book has really been all that successfull, the current Batman inc. Book is also not really an amazing seller, and they have alllready brought in the Joker as their villain for the second story arc.

[Frontier]

Really good issue. One of the best in Taylor's run so far. I've said it over and over but I love Redondo's art and this first person issue was a very unique way of allowing him to showcase his skills more. He's become maybe my favorite Nightwing artist ever, and Lucas' coloring complements it so well. They both draw Dick and Babs very attractively, Babs looked great in the Double Dare costume that was more fitting than her own costume, but also all the fun details like with facial expressions or meta references add to the tone and style that I like from the book.

I think this book is at its best when it really gets away from all the bigger plots Taylor is trying to do and focus on the more day to day superhero stuff while leaning on Dick's personality more. I've come to like Taylor's voice for Dick and I think he writes a fun playful dynamic with Babs. I haven't minded how their relationship has progressed. It's that stuff that kind of carries the book. The bigger Bludhaven plots, the sister story, and Heartless I haven't really enjoyed and think they are mostly bad. So I'd be completely fine with more simple stories like this.

One day they'll get Babs back in spandex permanently .

I do think Taylor is more at home here writing fun, uplifting, and cute stories than he is serious drama, villains, character beats, or plot progression.

[Felipe Silveira]

One day they'll get Babs back in spandex permanently .

I do think Taylor is more at home here writing fun, uplifting, and cute stories than he is serious drama, villains, character beats, or plot progression.

Not subtle at all!