Dick Grayson/Robin/Nightwing/Batman Appreciation 2023.

[Vordan]

As for whether Dick is being properly challenged....when this run started, weren't we all complaining that he was getting hit in the head too much, taken out by people who generally shouldn't have been able to? We knew he was still healing and not at his best but that didn't make those early issues go down any easier. Now that he's healed up and is once again the competent badass we know him to be, and DC isn't holding him back due to editorial mismanagement, he's not challenged enough? Maybe we're just so accustomed to seeing Dick get his ass kicked so Bruce or somebody can look better, we don't recognize a competent Nightwing anymore?

A good comparison would be Orlando’s Scarlet Witch series. Both Nightwing and SW previously had been heavily dumped on and needed wins. Orlando did his first three issues as Wanda kicking ass, but then he did a two parter where Wanda struggled and had to work for the win. Likewise Nightwing kicking ass and being awesome was fine up until issue 100. Dick needed to win and show why he’s considered one of the best heroes, but at this point Taylor has successfully established that. He’s shown that Nightwing is cool and awesome and all that. Now it’s time to start elevating Nightwing’s villains, to show that they are likewise cool and dangerous, that they pose a challenge to Nightwing. If there’s never a point in the story where we believe it’s possible they might win, they will never be considered interesting bad guys.

[Godlike13]

What if its not though. Like I get it, don’t get me wrong, conventional sense says good good guys need good bad guys. It’s an old and true formula that made the likes of Batman and Spider-Man what they are, and is an integral part of their success. What if though that’s not the way for Nightwing. What if they pivot from that traditional formula and look to other paths and things to focus on with Nightwing.
Some of the earliest criticisms of the run were about Bludhaven and Blockbuster, and how these aren’t new things. But they can put Nightwing somewhere new and still have it feel routine and traditional, they can shoot him in the head and strip him of everything he was and it could still feel that way, because of the way they are trying to tell his stories and traditional formulas they lean on. Maybe that’s just not the way with Nightwing.
The likes of Batman and Spider-Man are always going to be around for that, and quite frankly good luck trying to outdo them in those areas, so why not try a different way with Nightwing and have it be different areas and aspects that make his stories interesting or appealing.

[Felipe Silveira]

The problem with Blockbuster isn't that it's not new, it's that Taylor made it pathetic.
Nightwing 096-014.jpg

[Drako]

Ric Grayson sold well enough, Devin Grayson is one of the most important writers of Nightwing. What is next, Didio was just misunderstood?

What if its not though. Like I get it, don’t get me wrong, conventional sense says good good guys need good bad guys. It’s an old and true formula that made the likes of Batman and Spider-Man what they are, and is an integral part of their success. What if though that’s not the way for Nightwing. What if they pivot from that traditional formula and look to other paths and things to focus on with Nightwing.
Some of the earliest criticisms of the run were about Bludhaven and Blockbuster, and how these aren’t new things. But they can put Nightwing somewhere new and still have it feel routine and traditional, they can shoot him in the head and strip him of everything he was and it could still feel that way, because of the way they are trying to tell his stories and traditional formulas they lean on. Maybe that’s just not the way with Nightwing.
The likes of Batman and Spider-Man are always going to be around for that, and quite frankly good luck trying to outdo them in those areas, so why not try a different way with Nightwing and have it be different areas and aspects that make his stories interesting or appealing.

People in this thread were complaining when Dick had problems dealing with Heartless in his first appearance, now they will tell you that "Oh, the villains should pose a threat."

[Frontier]

People in this thread were complaining when Dick had problems dealing with Heartless in his first appearance, now they will tell you that "Oh, the villains should pose a threat."

I mean, I think it's valid if Dick comes off less capable than he should be and that also some villains aren't being treated like the threats they should be.

Taylor is capable of both .

[Mantis-Ray]

What if its not though. Like I get it, don’t get me wrong, conventional sense says good good guys need good bad guys. It’s an old and true formula that made the likes of Batman and Spider-Man what they are, and is an integral part of their success. What if though that’s not the way for Nightwing. What if they pivot from that traditional formula and look to other paths and things to focus on with Nightwing.
Some of the earliest criticisms of the run were about Bludhaven and Blockbuster, and how these aren’t new things. But they can put Nightwing somewhere new and still have it feel routine and traditional, they can shoot him in the head and strip him of everything he was and it could still feel that way, because of the way they are trying to tell his stories and traditional formulas they lean on. Maybe that’s just not the way with Nightwing.
The likes of Batman and Spider-Man are always going to be around for that, and quite frankly good luck trying to outdo them in those areas, so why not try a different way with Nightwing and have it be different areas and aspects that make his stories interesting or appealing.

Ehhhhhhhhh. Lets not over-exaggerate this run as super-special or its doing something unique.

Its kind of a Dick wank-fest. Dick is the most uber-special kind-hearted guy on the planet and everyone loves him and every issue is devoted to repeating this ad-nauseum. The constant reiteration that Dick is the greatest guy on Earth winds up feeling annoying especially since Dick isn't really being meaningfully struggled or challenged.

I mean I get it can feel refreshing after the whole Ric nonsense but personally I wasn't around for that. So this run just comes across as kinda shallow and toothless because everything is either resolved too easily or the characters aren't particularly compelling. Like villains aside, the Titans are still largely blah as they've always been in this book.

[Iclifton]

A good comparison would be Orlando’s Scarlet Witch series. Both Nightwing and SW previously had been heavily dumped on and needed wins. Orlando did his first three issues as Wanda kicking ass, but then he did a two parter where Wanda struggled and had to work for the win. Likewise Nightwing kicking ass and being awesome was fine up until issue 100. Dick needed to win and show why he’s considered one of the best heroes, but at this point Taylor has successfully established that. He’s shown that Nightwing is cool and awesome and all that. Now it’s time to start elevating Nightwing’s villains, to show that they are likewise cool and dangerous, that they pose a challenge to Nightwing. If there’s never a point in the story where we believe it’s possible they might win, they will never be considered interesting bad guys.

Very good summation. Really enjoyed the run so far but at this point I need an arc focusing on a villain that actual feels like a threat. TBH Taylor has really been coasting with Heartless. He came off as interesting the in the first arc but over the course of nearly 30 issues without development, interest has really dwindled.

I understand 105 being a "one and done" since July-Aug is Knight Terrors but #106 needs to move the overall plot forward.

[Iclifton]

Lol Devin Grayson sucked and contributed nothing of value to Nightwing.

Overall, this run has been super special. It hs generated high sales, is the most decorated Dick run in terms of yearly awards and has elevated Dick`s status in the DCU. It may not be perfect but a lot of its detractors sure come off as haters.

Being a writer on Nightwing must feel like a thankless job. Literally no matter what Taylor does, people complain.

[Felipe Silveira]

When is Dick's status low in the DCU? It never was, Dick was always important, you can't sum it all up to Ric's 2 years.
I wouldn't trade anything that Devin did on Nightwing for what Taylor was doing, Unforgettable run, unforgettable villain.

[Drako]

When is Dick's status low in the DCU? It never was, Dick was always important, you can't sum it all up to Ric's 2 years.
I wouldn't trade anything that Devin did on Nightwing for what Taylor was doing, Unforgettable run, unforgettable villain.

What villain of Devin Grayson is so unforgettable?
The only unforgettable thing from Devin Grayson is the rape scene, and not for good reasons.

[Frontier]

Lol Devin Grayson sucked and contributed nothing of value to Nightwing.

Overall, this run has been super special. It hs generated high sales, is the most decorated Dick run in terms of yearly awards and has elevated Dick`s status in the DCU. It may not be perfect but a lot of its detractors sure come off as haters.

Being a writer on Nightwing must feel like a thankless job. Literally no matter what Taylor does, people complain.

people hated on Seeley for Bludhaven and the Run-Offs and I liked what he was doing more than Taylor.

What villain of Devin Grayson is so unforgettable?
The only unforgettable thing from Devin Grayson is the rape scene, and not for good reasons.

It was so bad they couldn't even mention Tarantula in the Harley Quinn show.

[ayanestar]

When is Dick's status low in the DCU? It never was, Dick was always important, you can't sum it all up to Ric's 2 years.
I wouldn't trade anything that Devin did on Nightwing for what Taylor was doing, Unforgettable run, unforgettable villain.

Now, this is definitely something I disagree with because let's not forget Devin Grayson is the DC writer infamously known for having Nightwing raped by Tarantula and then trying to pass it off as "it wasn't rape, just non-consensual". She is also the one, who brought in the Romani reveal - not for representation but because she wanted to make him "exotic" and then proceeded to use slurs and stereotypes in that same story. I'm also convinced she shipped Bruce with Dick because some of the dialogues I remember were very questionable. Anyway, I might not like Taylor's writing most of the time, but I'll gladly take him over her.

[Godlike13]

When is Dick's status low in the DCU? It never was, Dick was always important, you can't sum it all up to Ric's 2 years.
I wouldn't trade anything that Devin did on Nightwing for what Taylor was doing, Unforgettable run, unforgettable villain.

When Didio was in charge. If you think you can sum it all up to Ric's 2 years, then your not really familiar with what has been going with the character for the past 2 decades. Devin Grayson took too long to tell her Born Again and everything pretty much just imploded.

[Felipe Silveira]

Dick in the era of the terrible Didio: Outsiders, Batman, Grayson, two issues a month in Rebirth. The best things for Dick happened with Didio running DC. He didn't like the character, but Dick didn't suffer at all compared to other characters like Wally and Cass. After he left we have what? A dog.

[Godlike13]

Dick in the era of the terrible Didio: Outsiders, Batman, Grayson, two issues a month in Rebirth. The best things for Dick happened with Didio running DC. He didn't like the character, but Dick didn't suffer at all compared to other characters like Wally and Cass. After he left we have what? A dog.

He tried to do what was done to Wally and Cass with Dick before those thing were even done with Wally and Cass. Except for maybe becoming Batman the best things that happened with Dick happen in spite of Didio, and even then there was always a limit because his status was deem less than. Outsiders was shit, Batman we got lucky with Morrison but as Nightwing it still saw him back in a book with a newbie writer and artist who couldn't finish an issue, and Grayson was an accident because they mistakenly double booked two writers and they didn't even get to finish it. Not to mention what was done with the character to have to get to those points. Its not even about whether he liked the character or not, he saw the character as a low status character and supported him as such. So unless someone like Morison wanted to do something with him, or they inadvertently fell into something good, the character saw bare minimum support and disruptive involvement. He only saw low to mid status creators, and as soon as a creator built any status for themselves they were then moved on to other characters. And that was despite having a fanbase that can support two issues a month. Soon after Didio was gone, and his old guard was pushed out, his book went from the worse book on the selves to an Eisner nominated title, he was pushed to the forefront of DC in an event, and they are now even attempting to increase his and his generation position in DCU. Rather then see them as threat.