Doctor Doom Appreciation 2023 - Scientist, Sorcerer, Romani King

[Iron Maiden]

I feel exactly as you so about this. I don't know why there is this huge emphasis on Kang in the MCU and now it is trickling over into the comics. I hope we are wrong but I hate to see Kang being the next big bad over Doom and that has been all the hype so far.

[CitizenXXX]

God, guys

Kang is the great evil of the Multiverse Saga. Doom is not. What's more, Doom won't even appear (or play a significant role) until the F4 sequel, which comes out... five years later? Seven years? However, perhaps Doom will play a role in Secret Wars, we'll see, but it's too early to even talk about it. Let them focus on one big villain, Kang absolutely deserves to shine

[DoomScribe]

God, guys

Kang is the great evil of the Multiverse Saga. Doom is not. What's more, Doom won't even appear (or play a significant role) until the F4 sequel, which comes out... five years later? Seven years? However, perhaps Doom will play a role in Secret Wars, we'll see, but it's too early to even talk about it. Let them focus on one big villain, Kang absolutely deserves to shine

Well pardon me for being a comic book snob, but Doom was the big bad in Secret Wars ... the original and the newer series. He made those stories what they were. Hello, God Emperor Doom? I'll be more than just a little miffed if Kang gets slotted into the role Doom played in those stories, I'm likely to be downright furious in fact. Kang may only be the time traveler he is because Doom invented the time machine in the Marvel Universe (not Tony Stark, not Hank Pym, not Reed Richards ... Doom! In FF #5 - 1962!).
Fantastic Four 5 pg19.jpg

We're not just nerds, we have the receipts!

That this gets lost and muddled in the MCU is another bone of contention. That Kang gets his story is fine with me, but don't rob Doom of his just due.

All of Marvels villains, past and present, owe a debt to Doctor Doom. That we would have to wait as long as we have already, much less another five years, is to make the MCU lack credibility at best or be ignorant or perhaps downright stupid. Doom Answers is absolutely correct, though, after the Thanos saga and now the multiverse, Doom's goals of world domination will seem small and insignificant in comparison. The problem with going as big as possible straight out of the gate only means there is no where else to go. I hope that is not so.

[Iron Maiden]

Doom better play a role, and I mean a big one in Secret Wars since he was one of the main characters in both versions...the one from the 1980s and HIckman's Secret Wars in 2015, But from some of the advance promos it looks like Kang will be taking that over too.
Maybe Kang is just going to be the distraction to pave the way for Doom. As Doomscribe points out, he was always a pale imitation of Doom in other storylines. He didn't develop time travel on his own and borrowed one that he found.

from Fantastic Four #18....

[megatillo]

First, I think there is WAY too much speculation on the internet of what Secret Wars will be and the role Kang plays in Secret Wars based on little. I find a lot of these comic books sites just fill up space with articles reflecting the writer's imagination. There isn't enough "real" news to fill the slots. Secondly, I would probably rather have no Doom than a lousy portrayal. We've lived through bad Doom on the screen more than once and you know what that kills? Hope. Because once done badly, you won't see him again for a long time and it weakens the character for the future.

Doom right now is a very difficult character to pull off effectively in MCU for multiple reasons. Not the least of which is the comic version that we all know works because of the history with him being a king of a well known country. Remember, he was introduced already ruling a country (or close to it, won't get into that). In the MCU, where has he been all this time? It is one thing to have a hidden kingdom on the moon, under the water, in a remote region of Africa, etc. You can rationalize they are self-sustaining so don't need contact with the outside world and can be hidden. It's another matter entirely to be in the middle of EUROPE for years and years with nobody ever referencing it before, no interaction with the outside world, and being ruled by the most dangerous man on the planet. As it stands now, they may need to introduce him as a new character that carves out a kingdom in Europe (much younger than the seasoned Doom we know) or maybe they bring him in from another part of the multiverse or he's been missing traveling the multiverse on his own all this time. Perhaps Kang himself has been killing Dooms all this time because he is fearful. That would be a cool/new way to go.

Regardless, I feel there has to be some good storytelling to make it work in a manner that doesn't feel shoehorned in and I would rather they take their time to do it right rather than rush it because I think the classic story we all know has to change to make it work.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Let's just lay it out on the table, MCU is adapting Hickman's Secret Wars, we all know this, because his SW was the more popular run, even Namor had lines taken directly from the comic in the cut version of the script in Black Panther: WF, Marvel will want to cash in on all the hype this whole event got because it was one of the few memorable events in the last decade, what can you tell me about any events going on now? I literally hear crickets from other fans about current events but everyone still talks about and references Hickman's SW because he spent years building up to it. The issue is Marvel is RUSHING SW instead of laying it out organically with it ending in Doom vs Reed they are throwing in Kang as what? The God Emperor Kang? who knows but I do know that they are taking one of the biggest arcs that centers around the F4 and Doom at it's core and they are rushing it into the mcu because they did not lay the seeds down for this like they did with Thanos for the better part of a decade. I mean I shouldn't be surprised that the MCU is bastardizing this plot line and pushing it forward for Ant-man/Avengers but it sucks because this is a F4 and Doom story.

I still think there was something planned at one point and Kevin Feige had it taken out. Why would Lake Bell, when asked on the the red carpet at the Wakanda Forever premier what character she would be playing said she would be in big trouble if she revealed it? She was in the night scene on the freighter and IIRC she is a good friend of Coogler's. The leak was that her character's name was Lucia von Bardas, who has a direct link to Latveria and Doom. I remember when the story leaked early in 2022, I checked her listing on IMDB and there was no name listed for her character in Wakanda. Now it says "Dr. Graham"... why would she have to be quiet about that? There is no Marvel character of any significance with that name.

Yeah, I really wish we had gotten some hint, a taste or some end credit scene of Doom because I feel coogler can pull of a good Doom, make him complex and not a one note villain.

[ImperiusWrecked]

Honestly I have zero faith in the mcu version of Doom, if they white wash this character for the 4th Live Action movie appearance then what's the point?! Doom's background is important to the character and it needs to be included and it will put him on the same level of sympathetic villain/antagonist as Killmonger and Namor. I really hope I am wrong about this because I want to like Doom but at most what I can guess is that they will probably make Doom's costume/outfit look good.

My ideal Doom + F4 movie would be:

F4 #1 - the team gets together - Mole Man is the villain
Rise of Doom - Doom solo origin movie
F4 #2 - Galactus - Doom cameo at end credit scene
F4 #3 - Doom vs the F4
Secret Wars - God Emperor Doom

[Iron Maiden]

I also have my misgivings about what Disney/Marvel will do with Doctor Doom. I will be seeing AntMan and the Wasp: Quantumania next month. According to leaks, the version of Kang we see will not be the doofus one we were introduced to called He Who Remains. I hate to get into racial issues but the casting has certainly caused some speculation as to whether or not Kang will be related to Reed since in the comics IIRC Kang is descended from Nathaniel Richards, Reed's father. It is pretty tangled even in the comics because for a while we fans were even confused and some thought Kang was a descendent of Victor von Doom. But the MCU has shown it's not treating the comics lore as set in stone anyway.

[ImperiusWrecked]

I mean the idea of Kang being a descendant of Reed and Doom is not unlikely, because Kristoff is Doom's adopted son and highly speculated half brother of Reed, there's hints in the comics and all Marvel would need to do is to let those hints be a reality and then we would have Kang being connected to both Doom and Reed through Kristoff's line, which of course his main romance in the comics being Cassie, another connection to Ant-Man, so it could be thousands of years into the future generations of Von Doom/Richards/Vernard/Lang family line that Kang is from.

They already have a Cassie in the mcu and I don't know who they would cast as Reed or Victor, or Kristoff if he is even in the mcu, but Kang is a future descendant so in the long run it won't affect who they cast.

[Iron Maiden]

I mean the idea of Kang being a descendant of Reed and Doom is not unlikely, because Kristoff is Doom's adopted son and highly speculated half brother of Reed, there's hints in the comics and all Marvel would need to do is to let those hints be a reality and then we would have Kang being connected to both Doom and Reed through Kristoff's line, which of course his main romance in the comics being Cassie, another connection to Ant-Man, so it could be thousands of years into the future generations of Von Doom/Richards/Vernard/Lang family line that Kang is from.

They already have a Cassie in the mcu and I don't know who they would cast as Reed or Victor, or Kristoff if he is even in the mcu, but Kang is a future descendant so in the long run it won't affect who they cast.

I guess you are right. After all, in the last disasterous movie version of the Fantastic Four, Kate Mara was cast as Sue Storm and was Michael B. Jordan's step sister Jonathan Storm.

[FRC Coazze]

I don't undertand the hype around Kang either. Maybe I’m just salty after the holidays, but I really don’t like comic book Doom's most recent leitmotif. I feel like Marvel’s constantly trying to keep him as shelved as possible and belittling him every now and then, first by impling that his conquest of Latveria wasn’t actually he’s own merit and now by having Zodiac saying that Doom is passè?!



I mean, he’s right: Victor’s very euro, and certainly not as evil as Carnage ^^’ But for some reason the way the character has been handled lately smells fishy. They’re not pushing him aside to let Kang shine, right? 'Cause this eventuality terrifies me. And worst of all, online articles seize any chance to downgrade Doom. Are they trying to make people forget who Marvel's biggest baddy is?

As for the MCU, I’ve lost most of hope after Wakanda Forever. Looks like they’re afraid to approach Doom (well, they should) given his previous portrayals in cinema. One thing’s for sure, Secret Wars without Doom is an impiety the very idea of shouldn’t exist. I can't even understand the reasoning behind it... they had Thanos as the Infinity War villain, not, let's say, Apocalypse! Why replace the iconic main character of a well loved story? But what ImperiusWrecked says it's true: Marvel is rushing Secret Wars a bit too much, too much to have a character like Doom well fleshed out and ready to take the spot light. I have a bad feeling about this...

(BTW, thank you, Iron Maiden, for posting the panels from Captain America 65th Anniversary Special. That was exactly what I meant, but couldn't find it anywhere! )

[Iron Maiden]

I don't undertand the hype around Kang either. Maybe I’m just salty after the holidays, but I really don’t like comic book Doom's most recent leitmotif. I feel like Marvel’s constantly trying to keep him as shelved as possible and belittling him every now and then, first by impling that his conquest of Latveria wasn’t actually he’s own merit and now by having Zodiac saying that Doom is passè?!



I mean, he’s right: Victor’s very euro, and certainly not as evil as Carnage ^^’ But for some reason the way the character has been handled lately smells fishy. They’re not pushing him aside to let Kang shine, right? 'Cause this eventuality terrifies me. And worst of all, online articles seize any chance to downgrade Doom. Are they trying to make people forget who Marvel's biggest baddy is?

As for the MCU, I’ve lost most of hope after Wakanda Forever. Looks like they’re afraid to approach Doom (well, they should) given his previous portrayals in cinema. One thing’s for sure, Secret Wars without Doom is an impiety the very idea of shouldn’t exist. I can't even understand the reasoning behind it... they had Thanos as the Infinity War villain, not, let's say, Apocalypse! Why replace the iconic main character of a well loved story? But what ImperiusWrecked says it's true: Marvel is rushing Secret Wars a bit too much, too much to have a character like Doom well fleshed out and ready to take the spot light. I have a bad feeling about this...

(BTW, thank you, Iron Maiden, for posting the panels from Captain America 65th Anniversary Special. That was exactly what I meant, but couldn't find it anywhere! )

You are welcome!

I saw the same article as you did about this page from this week's Moon Knight #19. I am tempted to pick it up or maybe just buy the digital version to see if this is just some random opinion or if anything develops from this. I'm thinking it won't be worth the bother.

As for Doom in the MCU my fear is it is so far off I will be senile by then! I am holding out hope that Kang is being used by TPTB at Marvel as a diversion or smokescreen for Doom's hopefully soon to come appearance. If not I will certainly be ticked off if Doom is replaced by Kang in all Doom's major storylines.

[Doom Answers to No Master]

You are welcome!

I saw the same article as you I presume about this page from this week's Moon Knight #19. I am tempted to pick it up or maybe just buy the digital version to see if this is just some random opinion or if anything develops from this. I thinking it won't be worth the bother.

As for Doom in the MCU my fear is it is so far off I will be senile by then! I am holding out hope that Kang is being used by TPTB at Marvel as a diversion or smokescreen for Doom's hopefully soon to come appearance. If not I will certainly be ticked off if Doom is replaced by Kang in all Doom's major storylines.

Bingo!! We all have to ask the question: Does Feige even like the character? I mean he praised the F4 as something important and a film worthy of them being "the first family." That said, maybe in Feige's mind, Doom doesn't have to be connected to the F4...I reiterate, that most if not all of Feige's interviews make their way to a lot of the printed press online and we all usually find them in one way or another. I have NEVER seen an interviewer ask ANYTHING about Doom/Latveria. I would love to see Feige's facial features/responses about the character.

I hate being so cynical but it certainly feels like to me that Doom isn't that important to them. I want to be excited for his fairy tale kingdom style of Latveria that could be a wonder to behold...imagine Doom atop his castle overlooking Doomstadt, his cloak blowing in the wind, 3rd person monologue from him...closeup on the burnt skin underneath his eyes...sadly, such things may never happen.

[Iron Maiden]

Bingo!! We all have to ask the question: Does Feige even like the character? I mean he praised the F4 as something important and a film worthy of them being "the first family." That said, maybe in Feige's mind, Doom doesn't have to be connected to the F4...I reiterate, that most if not all of Feige's interviews make their way to a lot of the printed press online and we all usually find them in one way or another. I have NEVER seen an interviewer ask ANYTHING about Doom/Latveria. I would love to see Feige's facial features/responses about the character.

I hate being so cynical but it certainly feels like to me that Doom isn't that important to them. I want to be excited for his fairy tale kingdom style of Latveria that could be a wonder to behold...imagine Doom atop his castle overlooking Doomstadt, his cloak blowing in the wind, 3rd person monologue from him...closeup on the burnt skin underneath his eyes...sadly, such things may never happen.

Or if it does happen the writing and characterization is so far off that it will not be the Doom we want to see. I think back to the days of Captain America: The First Avengers and that was probably their best transformation from the comics to the screen. I keep hoping we get something with that level of quality.

[megatillo]

Agree, let's not worry about it until more information is forthcoming. I am very hopeful Kang will be an interesting villain in his own right and he is not Doom-light - his motivations and story are very different. They can both co-exist in the MCU.

God, guys

Kang is the great evil of the Multiverse Saga. Doom is not. What's more, Doom won't even appear (or play a significant role) until the F4 sequel, which comes out... five years later? Seven years? However, perhaps Doom will play a role in Secret Wars, we'll see, but it's too early to even talk about it. Let them focus on one big villain, Kang absolutely deserves to shine