T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2023

[Ezyo1000]

I really hope that these allies do as much as Coates had T'Challa do when he Shuri and Okoye face off against venom monger for the first time. IE. nothing at all

[Mantis-Ray]

On further thought yeah this conflict doesn't feel like its developed enough that it requires help being brought in.

Its like some stuff is happening, the hero is only kinda doing stuff, and BAM now we're calling for help I guess despite barely anything happening.

I said this before but this book really should have focused on T'Challa dealing with one-off problems in the city before suddenly jumping into "GANG WAR, WE NEED ALL HANDS ON DECK"

[XJlock]

I believe T'Chaka created them, that was his big sin, the thing that T'Challa refused to acknowledge yet immediately disbanded once he became King

It does seem to be implied that T'Chaka was responsible for their existence.



That aside, since Kivu'Ma is a spirit, I wonder if the Black Panther would attempt to verify if he can exercise control on him with his King of the Dead power or harm is incorporeal form with his spiritual spear. As for the Golden Moonlit Vernain used by King M'Teli, it should be incorporated on T'Challa's Red Panther costume to further his anti-magic defense protocols for its sealing attribute.

[king of hybrids]

I'd like to know how they made that make sense.

The point of divergence seems to ‘Ego gets into Quills head remotely back in the 80’s’ (the trailer has T’Chaka and Thor fighting Ego’s avatars) and various flashbacks have show that, in addition to the various gods and sorcerers there are at least 7 superheroes/colourfully attired superpowered operatives active in the 80s so why not have them team up?

Also, What If does run to an extent on rule of cool over sense

[Ezyo1000]

So I finally read the latest BP issue. Wow. Eve really didn't do her homework at all. Not only are the Hatute Zeraze, a T'Chaka creation, but Kivumas whole backstory doesn't even make sense due to the fact that, until T'Challa came along. Wakanda was completely and utterly closed off from the rest of the world. Yet according to this, they were involved? This has some serious MAGA vibes, and just like Birnin T'Chaka and T'Challa currently being used at Gotham and Batman analogues, this whole thing just doesn't work.

This is book has dropped into the subtier level now. The fact that Eve is just rewriting the mythos in one of the dumbest and laziest way possible just reinforces she, loke Coates and Ridley before her, have bo business Penning tue solo at all

[king of hybrids]

You know, sliding timescale being what it is, I am/was expecting them to eventually split Azzuri and T’Chanda into seperate characters and have one be the WWI* one and Azzuri continuing as the WWII one, but I’m guessing M’teli will be doing the former if required.

*it’s now utterly out of living memory, every state level actor was a bag of malicious and imperialistic d*^ks and, whatever its quality, Wonder Woman’s film proved its a viable period setting. Of course Marvel will exploit the era, especially since they have a bunch of great re-existing WWI masks.

[chief12d]

You know, sliding timescale being what it is, I am/was expecting them to eventually split Azzuri and T’Chanda into seperate characters and have one be the WWI* one and Azzuri continuing as the WWII one, but I’m guessing M’teli will be doing the former if required.

*it’s now utterly out of living memory, every state level actor was a bag of malicious and imperialistic d*^ks and, whatever its quality, Wonder Woman’s film proved its a viable period setting. Of course Marvel will exploit the era, especially since they have a bunch of great re-existing WWI masks.

I think M’Teli’s introduction is more about building material for the upcoming Cap game than anything. More BP stories in the next few years are gonna refer to WWII and Azzuri since they’re set to get a push. That could also help explain the heavy emphasis on building up Birnin T’Chaka, it could be an entire section of an open world map for the solo game.

But in general I don’t see the big deal with T’Chaka not creating the Hatut Zeraze. An organization that protects Wakanda from the shadows by any means necessary would have to have existed prior to his reign. It would be one of the country’s most foundational military institutions because they have the most important jobs, protecting the kingdom’s secrecy and maintaining internal order. It doesn’t take away from T’Challa’s struggle with them if they predate T’Chaka, if anything it strengthens it because it means T’Challa went against centuries of tradition, like when he opened Wakanda.

But I could also see the argument that it depersonalizes the conflict because now the HZ are another “sins of my ancestors” trope this franchise has too much of these days. Before they felt like a personal demon for T’Challa’s family, one that radicalized his brother and led to S’Yan’s worst excesses as king, but that loses its impact if T’Chaka didn’t create and train them himself. Maybe Ewing can split the difference by saying the HZ always existed and T’Chaka made them what they are today.

[Ezyo1000]

But in general I don’t see the big deal with T’Chaka not creating the Hatut Zeraze. An organization that protects Wakanda from the shadows by any means necessary would have to have existed prior to his reign. It would be one of the country’s most foundational military institutions because they have the most important jobs, protecting the kingdom’s secrecy and maintaining internal order. It doesn’t take away from T’Challa’s struggle with them if they predate T’Chaka, if anything it strengthens it because it means T’Challa went against centuries of tradition, like when he opened Wakanda.

But I could also see the argument that it depersonalizes the conflict because now the HZ are another “sins of my ancestors” trope this franchise has too much of these days. Before they felt like a personal demon for T’Challa’s family, one that radicalized his brother and led to S’Yan’s worst excesses as king, but that loses its impact if T’Chaka didn’t create and train them himself. Maybe Ewing can split the difference by saying the HZ always existed and T’Chaka made them what they are today.

The problem is that the entire point of them was that they were a stain that tainted T'Challas memory of his father, it greatly f*cks with the family dynamic of all involved, and ontop of they. Ewings version is so lazy and westernized to a ridiculous degree. AND not only fod she change the origin of the HZ she also took more of T'Challas uniqueness by giving maga vibes with the head of the HZ and bow the claim that Wakanda was more involved with the outside world than they should be at this point.

All this is doing is very much like the MCU did. Strip away T'Challas character and feats to give to other characters because they lack agency. At the cost of T'Challa losing his as well.

The whole point of the HZ wasn't to protect Wakanda, but to stop anyone from usurping T'Chakas reign. Remember Wakanda already protected itself just fine, it had spies all over the world and no one even knows about Wakanda, let alone set foot in it

This is more sons of my ancestors to shackle T'Challa with, and it's being done in a far less nuanced way than what Priest did

[Ekie]

So I finally read the latest BP issue. Wow. Eve really didn't do her homework at all. Not only are the Hatute Zeraze, a T'Chaka creation, but Kivumas whole backstory doesn't even make sense due to the fact that, until T'Challa came along. Wakanda was completely and utterly closed off from the rest of the world. Yet according to this, they were involved? This has some serious MAGA vibes, and just like Birnin T'Chaka and T'Challa currently being used at Gotham and Batman analogues, this whole thing just doesn't work.

This is book has dropped into the subtier level now. The fact that Eve is just rewriting the mythos in one of the dumbest and laziest way possible just reinforces she, loke Coates and Ridley before her, have bo business Penning tue solo at all

Can only blame the editor at this point

[king of hybrids]

I mean, I’m pretty sure you could still go with the ‘taint the memory of his father’ bit on account of the whole raising Hunter to be a disposable hatchetman and then leaving him with the consequences when that plan didn’t quite pan out. There: Family drama, courtly intrigue, sons of the father and bucking the consequences on to the next generation

[Pulp Fiction]

I haven’t read the new chapter but it sounds like Hudlin’s reboot strikes again. Changing the timescale. Another thing he innocently introduced having heavy repercussions going forward. Either ways, it seems like this was inevitable tbh

[DigiCom]

I'm less annoyed by the HZ retcon (which, as people have said, is half fanon anyway) and more with the lazy "world-building" that Eve Ewing is inflicting on the franchise.

Her Wakanda has apparently been influenced by the US for decades and (instead of being technologically and/or ethically advanced) is basically Chicago.

No explorations of art, music, fashion, or any other facet of Wakandan culture. Just crime families and a retread of Hunter's storyline.

[Ezyo1000]

I mean, I’m pretty sure you could still go with the ‘taint the memory of his father’ bit on account of the whole raising Hunter to be a disposable hatchetman and then leaving him with the consequences when that plan didn’t quite pan out. There: Family drama, courtly intrigue, sons of the father and bucking the consequences on to the next generation

This change is pretty big though . The point that hunters got that was because he was an outsider. The HZs entire creation was never for altruistic reasons. This change would be like saying the DM were created originally as the protectors of the royals then changed to the wives in training when they were introduced by priest.

But then it's also the fact that apparently WK has been dealing with the outside world for a century before T'Challa does, which is stupid because that T'Challas whole deal of being different from other BPs

[BlackClaw]

Coogler should be thankful WF was did financially well (even if it wasn’t as much as the first). Because the way Marvel and the trades like Hollywood Reporter are hanging Nia DaCosta out to dry shows what would’ve happened if things went completely sideways.

[Frontier]

I'm less annoyed by the HZ retcon (which, as people have said, is half fanon anyway) and more with the lazy "world-building" that Eve Ewing is inflicting on the franchise.

Her Wakanda has apparently been influenced by the US for decades and (instead of being technologically and/or ethically advanced) is basically Chicago.

No explorations of art, music, fashion, or any other facet of Wakandan culture. Just crime families and a retread of Hunter's storyline.

Is Eve Ewing basically making a pitch for a Jace Fox Batman book?