T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2023

[skyvolt2000]

His motivation for creating the apartheid state in Mohannda is:
spoilers:

He doesn't believe in the idea of racial reconciliation or homeland. He believes Wakanda's xenophobia (and implies racism as well) is the reason he was exiled. Part of the reason I want to see him interact with Ramonda is they bonded over their shared experience of xenophobia, but she got to stay and he didn't which may prove his point in his mind. He rejects the idea that Sam's people will find acceptance in either Wakanda or America and says Sam will never overcome it, breaking the symbol of hope that Captain America is supposed to represent.

end of spoilers

Like, I get the possibility of getting from A to D, but I would have liked to see B and C. Hopefully we'll get it in Cold War or maybe there's a White Wolf mini on the way that we don't know about. I feel like it's a reasonable place for Hunter to end up (especially considering he's a known liar, so how much of this he truly believes and how much this is just his new excuse to cover the pain he feels from exile is up for interpretation), but I think we needed to see more of that ground covered. But we were never going to get that in a Cap book, and certainly not in one as action-heavy as Symbol of Truth.

So I guess Hunter never met his nephew's friend Bruno from Ms Marvel or Agents of Wakanda or knew about the black power movement in Coates BP issue 25.

If Wakanda was what he claims-they sure have an odd way of showing it.

[Mantis-Ray]

So I guess Hunter never met his nephew's friend Bruno from Ms Marvel or Agents of Wakanda or knew about the black power movement in Coates BP issue 25.

If Wakanda was what he claims-they sure have an odd way of showing it.

Well this is the same book that has Shuri outright extradite a bunch of American immigrants back to the US as a spite move towards Sam

So its definitely a thing there

[robreedwrites]

So I guess Hunter never met his nephew's friend Bruno from Ms Marvel or Agents of Wakanda or knew about the black power movement in Coates BP issue 25.

If Wakanda was what he claims-they sure have an odd way of showing it.

I mean, Wakanda IS highly xenophobic. That doesn't prevent them from letting people in when it has use for them. And Wakanda calling on every black superhero and not him is probably evidence in his favor, at least from his pov.

But heck, when was the last time Hunter was in Wakanda doing something of note? Priest's run? He's been away from home for a minute.

[DigiCom]

Well this is the same book that has Shuri outright extradite a bunch of American immigrants back to the US as a spite move towards Sam

There's your "exploring Wakanda" amirite?

[Mantis-Ray]

Its funny to think that the Hatute Zeraze probably really miss when Hunter was in charge.

The branch has really declined and lost direction ever since he was ousted from the position. Dude kept a steady ship, better than Akili at least.

[XJlock]

I am beginning to wonder if Onyebuchi even read David Liss' run. If not, he needs to be schooled on the fact that T'Challa remains the warrior even without the advantages that Sam Wilson seemed to be annoyed by.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Its funny to think that the Hatute Zeraze probably really miss when Hunter was in charge.

The branch has really declined and lost direction ever since he was ousted from the position. Dude kept a steady ship, better than Akili at least.

Under Hunter, they took over all of North America.

I think Hunter's got a right to be mad, given that T'Challa disbanded them for being a brand, then brought them back without him.

[Mantis-Ray]

I am beginning to wonder if Onyebuchi even read David Liss' run. If not, he needs to be schooled on the fact that T'Challa remains the warrior even without the advantages that Sam Wilson seemed to be annoyed by.

Wait we're really doing this with Sam? Cause that is a shaky line to do with a character when the majority of the superhero community are superpowered in some manor.

It kinda makes Sam look like a whiner, especially since he is choosing to be Captain America without any sort of super-soldier serum.

Under Hunter, they took over all of North America.

I think Hunter's got a right to be mad, given that T'Challa disbanded them for being a brand, then brought them back without him.

Oh dang when did they take over North America?

Also yeah bringing back the War Dogs was a mistake since T'Challa choosing to disband them was a source of great moral character on his part. If they wanted a spy branch for Wakanda they probably should have invented a new group instead of reinstating the secret police.

[chief12d]

I mean, Wakanda IS highly xenophobic. That doesn't prevent them from letting people in when it has use for them. And Wakanda calling on every black superhero and not him is probably evidence in his favor, at least from his pov.

But heck, when was the last time Hunter was in Wakanda doing something of note? Priest's run? He's been away from home for a minute.

And canonically he was treated bad mostly due to xenophobia. Zuri straight went to America and told T’Challa to end his relationship with Nicki while still in college, people must’ve been seething that their actual king made a foreigner their prince lol. Hunter would have some measure of respect because T’Chaka adopted him and his skills as a warrior were undeniable. But he never had their love because he wasn’t “of the realm” and his duties caused fear since the HZ are dirty. Even by Wakandan standards they were nasty work.

Ramonda was able to manage because even though she also wasn’t Wakandan, T’Chaka didn’t compromise her chances of winning the people over by putting her in charge of an espionage death squad lol. Hunter was gonna have a hard enough time being accepted as a foreigner, making him the poster child of the monarchy’s darkest policies condemned him to controversy for the rest of his life. Idk if you ever watched Naruto but it’s similar to the Uchiha, putting an othered identity in a position of authority sets them up for resentment from people already looking for reasons to hate.

And when you think about it, the only non-Wakandan being put in a position where he has to constantly exploit his whiteness (his otherness) to act in the kingdom’s interest would cause a severe crisis of identity and self-worth. I’m sure a piece of Hunter thinks he was taken in just to be a tool of the Wakandan state, a useful spy. So his pessimism makes perfect sense and when coupled with his murderous tendencies, his current actions were always on the table.

I don’t think it’s too out of character for him to spark a civil war to show the futility of racial harmony and integration. He’s the same guy that’s tried to manipulate T’Challa into killing folks. He hates the symbology of national icons like the Panther or Captain America because he feels their BS when in reality he’s mad he could never be them.

[Ezyo1000]

I am beginning to wonder if Onyebuchi even read David Liss' run. If not, he needs to be schooled on the fact that T'Challa remains the warrior even without the advantages that Sam Wilson seemed to be annoyed by.

Did you read Tochis BP legends? Dude straight up frakked up a bunch of stuff with T'Challas origin, after Narcisse did a great job of consolidating the origins and made challenge day that much more difficult which played onto uplifting T'Challa.

Tochi also redid the FF meet up and completely ruined it. So for him to have Sam saying dumba** Isht is just par for the course

[Mantis-Ray]

And canonically he was treated bad mostly due to xenophobia. Zuri straight went to America and told T’Challa to end his relationship with Nicki while still in college, people must’ve been seething that their actual king made a foreigner their prince lol. Hunter would have some measure of respect because T’Chaka adopted him and his skills as a warrior were undeniable. But he never had their love because he wasn’t “of the realm” and his duties caused fear since the HZ are dirty. Even by Wakandan standards they were nasty work.

Ramonda was able to manage because even though she also wasn’t Wakandan, T’Chaka didn’t compromise her chances of winning the people over by putting her in charge of an espionage death squad lol. Hunter was gonna have a hard enough time being accepted as a foreigner, making him the poster child of the monarchy’s darkest policies condemned him to controversy for the rest of his life. Idk if you ever watched Naruto but it’s similar to the Uchiha, putting an othered identity in a position of authority sets them up for resentment from people already looking for reasons to hate.

And when you think about it, the only non-Wakandan being put in a position where he has to constantly exploit his whiteness (his otherness) to act in the kingdom’s interest would cause a severe crisis of identity and self-worth. I’m sure a piece of Hunter thinks he was taken in just to be a tool of the Wakandan state, a useful spy. So his pessimism makes perfect sense and when coupled with his murderous tendencies, his current actions were always on the table.

I don’t think it’s too out of character for him to spark a civil war to show the futility of racial harmony and integration. He’s the same guy that’s tried to manipulate T’Challa into killing folks. He hates the symbology of national icons like the Panther or Captain America because he feels their BS when in reality he’s mad he could never be them.

In hindsight it is really messed up that of all the positions T'Chaka could have given his son, it was as head of the secret police.

Like those dirty business' positions can really mess up a person since it requires and enables immorality, cruelty, and excessive violence, so the fact he subjected his own son to that is pretty galling.

Hunter never really had a chance once he was signed on for the War Dogs. All the negative feelings he felt was worsened as the White Wolf position because a deep black abyss that he would sink into without end.

[The Cool Thatguy]

Wait we're really doing this with Sam? Cause that is a shaky line to do with a character when the majority of the superhero community are superpowered in some manor.

It kinda makes Sam look like a whiner, especially since he is choosing to be Captain America without any sort of super-soldier serum.



Oh dang when did they take over North America?

Also yeah bringing back the War Dogs was a mistake since T'Challa choosing to disband them was a source of great moral character on his part. If they wanted a spy branch for Wakanda they probably should have invented a new group instead of reinstating the secret police.

Enemy of the State 2, White Wolf replaced the president of the US and Canada with time clones he could control.

[king of hybrids]

In hindsight it is really messed up that of all the positions T'Chaka could have given his son, it was as head of the secret police.

Like those dirty business' positions can really mess up a person since it requires and enables immorality, cruelty, and excessive violence, so the fact he subjected his own son to that is pretty galling.

Hunter never really had a chance once he was signed on for the War Dogs. All the negative feelings he felt was worsened as the White Wolf position because a deep black abyss that he would sink into without end.

Making him the face of the HZ would also make it clear to everyone that Hunter was eminently disposable to the Royal Family. That in the event of a crisis or political scandal he’d be first under the bus to protect the throne

[Besouro]

In hindsight it is really messed up that of all the positions T'Chaka could have given his son, it was as head of the secret police.

Like those dirty business' positions can really mess up a person since it requires and enables immorality, cruelty, and excessive violence, so the fact he subjected his own son to that is pretty galling.

Hunter never really had a chance once he was signed on for the War Dogs. All the negative feelings he felt was worsened as the White Wolf position because a deep black abyss that he would sink into without end.

There is nothing wrong with being pleased as head of the secret police. That's like placing him in charge of the MI5 + MI6, the spy and intelligence network which happen to include assassins no different that real life spy and intelligence agencies from mossad to cia to fsb, etc. Basically entrusting him in charge of protecting Wakanda from the shadows..

Its just that Hunter was adopted before Tchalla was born so Hunter expected to be the heir to the throne which got dashed when Tchalla was born born. Since then Hunter felt sidestepped so King Tchaka gave him some position of power as Head of HT ...and he went amok with it thinking it was not enough.

In my opinion, Hunter can be written better especially with his relationship with the royal family (Queen Ramonda, Tchalla, Shuri, Syan).... We need to see him interact with the whole family. Additionally i would have written Tchalla better with his interactions with Hunter in terms of showing effort to try to change Hunter, to squash the grieve n beef.

[MindofShadow]

Wakandans are not really good people. They never have been good people.

Wakanda is (well should be) a paradise... for Wakandans. The regular base Wakandan citizen doesn't give two shits about anyone else and thinks they are superior to everyone else. It isn't race, it is pure Wakanda only.

The difference between Wakandans and any other "we are superior to you" nationalistic societies is that they do not conquer and press their ideals on others. They are content to defend their borders and leave everyone alone. Almost to a fault at times. (Which is why the IGEW was such a misrepresentation of Wakandans, again, thanks coates)

... this is why T'challa was weird and different. Him opening up the borders and helping the rest of the world is one of the reasons he is special. But this has been lost throughout the years.

And Shuri has always been more nationalistic and hardlined like the kings of old. Her deporting people out of spite isn't any different than imprisoning nuns. My fanfic head theory is that she seems slightly inferior for only being "half Wakandan"... unlike her superior born a king brother, so she acts more like the kings of old to compensate.

I prefer Falcon

Same

In hindsight it is really messed up that of all the positions T'Chaka could have given his son, it was as head of the secret police.

Like those dirty business' positions can really mess up a person since it requires and enables immorality, cruelty, and excessive violence, so the fact he subjected his own son to that is pretty galling.

Hunter never really had a chance once he was signed on for the War Dogs. All the negative feelings he felt was worsened as the White Wolf position because a deep black abyss that he would sink into without end.

T'chaka's kind of a dick, just like the rest of Wakandans.

He saw Hunter as tool.

He may have loved him and definitely spared his life but he had a devoted "son" who he knew would do anything for him and decided, "yup, this dude will lead my KGB because he will do anything for me"