T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2023

[Besouro]

Making him the face of the HZ would also make it clear to everyone that Hunter was eminently disposable to the Royal Family. That in the event of a crisis or political scandal he’d be first under the bus to protect the throne

I disagree..... It makes him in charge of the entire Wakandan intelligence network. That is NOT disposable when he us in charge of all of Wakanda's secrets and espionage activities.

[king of hybrids]

I disagree..... It makes him in charge of the entire Wakandan intelligence network. That is NOT disposable when he us in charge of all of Wakanda's secrets and espionage activities.

It’s a position of great power, but it’s not exactly a position that makes one popular, what with being on the Beria end of security chiefs.

Between the obvious and his position making him feared and hated, he’d never be in a position to make a move against T’Chaka or S’Yen’s kids, and can be blamed for any bad decision relating to the security services

[chief12d]

It’s a position of great power, but it’s not exactly a position that makes one popular, what with being on the Beria end of security chiefs.

Between the obvious and his position making him feared and hated, he’d never be in a position to make a move against T’Chaka or S’Yen’s kids, and can be blamed for any bad decision relating to the security services

Agreed. I don’t even think Hunter was in Wakanda when T’Chaka died, he was on a mission. His role as leader of the HZ absolutely marginalized him within the family and it’s a terrible look to take the one foreigner and turn them into the face of T’Chaka’s reign’s worst (if sometimes justified) actions.

But to be fair, the entire institution of the monarchy puts the kids in the line of fire. As much as some hated when Coates had T’Challa say he was never asked to be king, it’s true (even if the context of the story was poorly written). Hell, he’d never have to deal with Killmonger if he wasn’t the son of T’Chaka. Being royal puts a massive target on one’s back, so throw in being a foreigner and being pushed to do the dirty work and you got a recipe for problems.

I think what also helped Ramonda in comparison to Hunter is she was able to step up after T’Chaka died. T’Challa needed to process his trauma and make sure an attack like Klaue’s never happened again so he traveled the world to train and learn. Shuri was still young. S’Yan, Zuri, and Ramonda were the main ones leading Wakanda and she proved herself as a national icon. S’Yan, in his grief, probably contributed quite a bit to Hunter’s loneliness because he probably sent Hunter on even more missions than T’Chaka. After his brother died, dude was building doomsday weapons and clearly had less tolerance for outsiders than most. Hunter would’ve been at the palace even less and his tactics would grow more ruthless in the period after T’Chaka’s death.

[MindofShadow]

Agreed. I don’t even think Hunter was in Wakanda when T’Chaka died, he was on a mission. His role as leader of the HZ absolutely marginalized him within the family and it’s a terrible look to take the one foreigner and turn them into the face of T’Chaka’s reign’s worst (if sometimes justified) actions.

But to be fair, the entire institution of the monarchy puts the kids in the line of fire. As much as some hated when Coates had T’Challa say he was never asked to be king, it’s true (even if the context of the story was poorly written). Hell, he’d never have to deal with Killmonger if he wasn’t the son of T’Chaka. Being royal puts a massive target on one’s back, so throw in being a foreigner and being pushed to do the dirty work and you got a recipe for problems.

I think what also helped Ramonda in comparison to Hunter is she was able to step up after T’Chaka died. T’Challa needed to process his trauma and make sure an attack like Klaue’s never happened again so he traveled the world to train and learn. Shuri was still young. S’Yan, Zuri, and Ramonda were the main ones leading Wakanda and she proved herself as a national icon. S’Yan, in his grief, probably contributed quite a bit to Hunter’s loneliness because he probably sent Hunter on even more missions than T’Chaka. After his brother died, dude was building doomsday weapons and clearly had less tolerance for outsiders than most. Hunter would’ve been at the palace even less and his tactics would grow more ruthless in the period after T’Chaka’s death.

Fleshing out Syan a bit was maybe the best thing Rise of the BP did.

He and hunter 100% woulda went a bit ballistic once T'chaka was killed.

[chief12d]

Fleshing out Syan a bit was maybe the best thing Rise of the BP did.

He and hunter 100% woulda went a bit ballistic once T'chaka was killed.

This franchise has been a shell of itself ever since S’Yan, Zuri, and W’Kabi died within like 2-3 years of each other. T’Challa’s best friend and traditionalist cool uncles were lynchpins of his personal life outside Ramonda and his ex-wife (who he barely spoke to prior to marriage). They offered so much characterization for the lead and insight into Wakanda as a society. Rise’s best contribution outside elevating the Hyena Clan was giving S’Yan more weight in T’Challa’s backstory, adding context for why he and his siblings ended up the way they did. It’s a shame that can’t be built on because he’s dead while a character like Hunter is pretty much unusable after trying to create a modern apartheid state.

The Wakandan royal family is much less interesting with them out of the picture. And its painfully obvious newer writers have trouble creating personal stakes or complex emotions for T’Challa because most of the characters he actually has a relationship with are gone.

[Ezyo1000]

Wakandans are not really good people. They never have been good people.

Wakanda is (well should be) a paradise... for Wakandans. The regular base Wakandan citizen doesn't give two shits about anyone else and thinks they are superior to everyone else. It isn't race, it is pure Wakanda only.

The difference between Wakandans and any other "we are superior to you" nationalistic societies is that they do not conquer and press their ideals on others. They are content to defend their borders and leave everyone alone. Almost to a fault at times. (Which is why the IGEW was such a misrepresentation of Wakandans, again, thanks coates)

... this is why T'challa was weird and different. Him opening up the borders and helping the rest of the world is one of the reasons he is special. But this has been lost throughout the years.

And Shuri has always been more nationalistic and hardlined like the kings of old. Her deporting people out of spite isn't any different than imprisoning nuns. My fanfic head theory is that she seems slightly inferior for only being "half Wakandan"... unlike her superior born a king brother, so she acts more like the kings of old to compensate.



Same



T'chaka's kind of a dick, just like the rest of Wakandans.

He saw Hunter as tool.

He may have loved him and definitely spared his life but he had a devoted "son" who he knew would do anything for him and decided, "yup, this dude will lead my KGB because he will do anything for me"

This... This is what Wakanda IS. It's like Priest said back in the day, Wakandans are nice enough that they would give you a cookie, but they don't generally care about anything else the world is doing. They are truly the epitome of, "Don't bother me, and I won't bother you". Whichever as you said, Coates gross misrepresentation of Wakanda is so frustrating. They literally wouldn't do that. They had opportunities to do that on earth and they didn't at all. This is also the problem with the modern writers that have been given the reigns to the franchise over the last several years. They are trying to make all their OCs Woke, progressive thinking challenge the authority types, yet forget that... T'Challa IS literally the progressive thinking person and it's WHY he is so unique. Instead they are making him well... Like MCU T'Challa which is a problem, where he initially wanted to maintain the status quo. That was actually far more damaging to T'Challas character and gave these writer's the excuse they needed to **** on his character and push their garbage ass OCs.

Also since it appears that only black women can be progressive and forward thinking whole black Men have to be "taught" or shown the correct path, that also explains Shuris taking of T'Challas characteristics... As well as the MCU again.

Hell it seems they even tried to push T'Challa as the one to start being progressive and T'Challa kinda reverted back, again going off the MCU. It's really frustrating and takes away from the franchise.

[MindofShadow]

This franchise has been a shell of itself ever since S’Yan, Zuri, and W’Kabi died within like 2-3 years of each other. T’Challa’s best friend and traditionalist cool uncles were lynchpins of his personal life outside Ramonda and his ex-wife (who he barely spoke to prior to marriage). They offered so much characterization for the lead and insight into Wakanda as a society. Rise’s best contribution outside elevating the Hyena Clan was giving S’Yan more weight in T’Challa’s backstory, adding context for why he and his siblings ended up the way they did. It’s a shame that can’t be built on because he’s dead while a character like Hunter is pretty much unusable after trying to create a modern apartheid state.

The Wakandan royal family is much less interesting with them out of the picture. And its painfully obvious newer writers have trouble creating personal stakes or complex emotions for T’Challa because most of the characters he actually has a relationship with are gone.

T'challa has no elder warriors to council.

He has no elder statesman at all to talk about the old days. Hence the reliance on force ghosts and stupid characters like Chang.

He has no comic relief.

You have T'challa, his mom, his sister who changes characterizations monthly, and then 10000 ultra serious warrior women

[Mantis-Ray]

Fleshing out Syan a bit was maybe the best thing Rise of the BP did.

He and hunter 100% woulda went a bit ballistic once T'chaka was killed.

Oh that sounds interesting. What book is that?

This franchise has been a shell of itself ever since S’Yan, Zuri, and W’Kabi died within like 2-3 years of each other. T’Challa’s best friend and traditionalist cool uncles were lynchpins of his personal life outside Ramonda and his ex-wife (who he barely spoke to prior to marriage). They offered so much characterization for the lead and insight into Wakanda as a society. Rise’s best contribution outside elevating the Hyena Clan was giving S’Yan more weight in T’Challa’s backstory, adding context for why he and his siblings ended up the way they did. It’s a shame that can’t be built on because he’s dead while a character like Hunter is pretty much unusable after trying to create a modern apartheid state.

The Wakandan royal family is much less interesting with them out of the picture. And its painfully obvious newer writers have trouble creating personal stakes or complex emotions for T’Challa because most of the characters he actually has a relationship with are gone.

Reminds me of the same issues characters like Wonder Woman goes through. Writers barely build upon stuff and characters from the prior runs meaning there's very little consistancy cause everyone is radically trying their own thing.

We can see it here especially with Coates giving lots of spotlight to characters like Ayo, Aneka, Space-Nakia, Space-M'Baku only for Ridley immediately after to not use any of those guys in favor of his own creations like Omola and Tosin.

Also who the Hell is Chang again?

[MindofShadow]

Rise of the Black Panther




Reminds me of the same issues characters like Wonder Woman goes through. Writers barely build upon stuff and characters from the prior runs meaning there's very little consistancy cause everyone is radically trying their own thing.

We can see it here especially with Coates giving lots of spotlight to characters like Ayo, Aneka, Space-Nakia, Space-M'Baku only for Ridley immediately after to not use any of those guys in favor of his own creations like Omola and Tosin.

Also who the Hell is Chang again?

changemire

[KingNomarch]

Oh that sounds interesting. What book is that?



Reminds me of the same issues characters like Wonder Woman goes through. Writers barely build upon stuff and characters from the prior runs meaning there's very little consistancy cause everyone is radically trying their own thing.

We can see it here especially with Coates giving lots of spotlight to characters like Ayo, Aneka, Space-Nakia, Space-M'Baku only for Ridley immediately after to not use any of those guys in favor of his own creations like Omola and Tosin.

Also who the Hell is Chang again?

Rise of the Black Panther by Evan Narcisse

How can you forget about Changabooboo the most respected and admired teacher/philosopher/man in Wakanda’s history even though he preaches and demands for everything Wakandans are against and should be realistically treated like a pariah and also has the power to end an entire rebellion easily with one lazy speech because he’s Changabooboo and if he says the rebellion is wrong then it’s wrong.

[Ezyo1000]

T'challa has no elder warriors to council.

He has no elder statesman at all to talk about the old days. Hence the reliance on force ghosts and stupid characters like Chang.

He has no comic relief.

You have T'challa, his mom, his sister who changes characterizations monthly, and then 10000 ultra serious warrior women

Everyone is so set on "Badass warrior" that they make generic action character with no personality outside of "I'm a badass Because I Said so!" And there isn't any nuance or other characters.

If I had my way, I would weave a story killing off all the OCs while having the villains use some magic shenanigans that ends with restoring the original cast that gives T'Challa complex and compelling characters to interact with

[Mantis-Ray]

Rise of the Black Panther by Evan Narcisse

How can you forget about Changabooboo the most respected and admired teacher/philosopher/man in Wakanda’s history even though he preaches and demands for everything Wakandans are against and should be realistically treated like a pariah and also has the power to end an entire rebellion easily with one lazy speech because he’s Changabooboo and if he says the rebellion is wrong then it’s wrong.

Ah the pretension.

Didn't this guy also get his own story in the recent Voices Wakanda issue?

[Vordan]

Rise of the Black Panther by Evan Narcisse

How can you forget about Changabooboo the most respected and admired teacher/philosopher/man in Wakanda’s history even though he preaches and demands for everything Wakandans are against and should be realistically treated like a pariah and also has the power to end an entire rebellion easily with one lazy speech because he’s Changabooboo and if he says the rebellion is wrong then it’s wrong.

Oh God I just realized he’s basically a Coates fantasy self-insert lmao. A writer who has the respect of everyone from the militants to the moderates, who rails against the status quo and complains about the injustice of his country, and he can resolve everything through sheer eloquence once he feels like it

[DigiCom]

How can you forget about Changabooboo the most respected and admired teacher/philosopher/man in Wakanda’s history even though he preaches and demands for everything Wakandans are against and should be realistically treated like a pariah and also has the power to end an entire rebellion easily with one lazy speech because he’s Changabooboo and if he says the rebellion is wrong then it’s wrong.

I'm looking forward to KAJAGOOGOO THE MOVIE.

[Ekie]

Oh God I just realized he’s basically a Coates fantasy self-insert lmao. A writer who has the respect of everyone from the militants to the moderates, who rails against the status quo and complains about the injustice of his country, and he can resolve everything through sheer eloquence once he feels like it

That's him.