T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2023

[MindofShadow]

Every characters like that when they debut. Obviously there's not much story to him yet, but thats just as much an argument against hating him as it is an argument for doing so.

Not really. If the only trait showed is, "tchalla sucks" and I hate another character with that trait... it is a perfectly valid reason to dislike the character.

Makes more sense to dislike a character over what has been shown on panel than it does to like a character for potential... which just means, "stuff I made up in my head because Ridley stinks at character development."

[Klaue's Mixtape]

I think some have laid out why they dislike Tosin, and so I feel to call what people say about the character "unfounded" is very dismissive. Ridley set the character up to be in opposition to T'Challa (and this is a T'Challa appreciation page, so yeah, some people are going to take issue with that). If you like him, cool, but do you think your liking him is just as "unfounded" as people disliking him?

As for Wakanda Forever, the movie underperformed at the box office. It's not a failure, it's not a flop, but it did underperform compared to the first film. (And it faced some of the same challenges that Top Gun and Jurassic Park did, though both made a billion, and it also didn't overtake Dr. Strange 2, even though the first Black Panther made gobs more money than the first Dr. Strange, and arguably Wakanda Forever had far less competition and the lucrative Thanksgiving holiday all to itself). If next year, The Marvels also doesn't hit, or exceed, a billion like the first one did, then the same conversation can also be had, though I doubt the Wakanda Forever defenders or deniers will be out in force explaining why a disappointment isn't a disappointment then. Ant-Man 3 is not coming off a billion-dollar Ant-Man 2. If it hits what Wakanda Forever made last year that will be considered a win, and also proof that each successive Ant-Man movie is getting bigger box office, which is now something the Black Panther franchise can't claim. They can turn it around with the third movie-if there is a third movie-but as it stands, Wakanda Forever's box office underperformed.

Retreading old water, but those films had the same actors returning to all those films.

I wanted a recast, but WF was gonna take a hit regardless without Chadwick Boseman. Plus based on the script they were going with they truly were in a corner if they did recast.

Just a terrible situation. Especially based on the time window to go or think of alternative routes. I dont agree with what they did, but I understood it. However, if T'Challa Jr isnt grown up/or a multiverse T'Challa arrives then it'll be chaos. So its on how they proceed.

[Redjack]

With respect to Redjack,...lets hear another voice/option.

Mairghread Scott
Matt Wayne
Jen Muro
Marc Bernardin
Charlotte Fullerton

any one of them could MURDER a panther series.


And a couple of people who have shows coming up that i'm not allowed to say and whose names you don't know yet.

Barring extremely unlikely circumstances (there are a couple of fairly narrow routes), I think we can say my time writing and/or running Black Panther things is pretty much done.

[Ezyo1000]

With respect to Redjack,...lets hear another voice/option.

Why? The problem is that Marvel hasn't let people who have proven they get the character have a chance to shine. Give him a fair shake first

[Steroid]

Mairghread Scott
Matt Wayne
Jen Muro
Marc Bernardin
Charlotte Fullerton

any one of them could MURDER a panther series.


And a couple of people who have shows coming up that i'm not allowed to say and whose names you don't know yet.

Barring extremely unlikely circumstances (there are a couple of fairly narrow routes), I think we can say my time writing and/or running Black Panther things is pretty much done.

While it's a bit disappointing that your time writing\running Black Panther things are a wrap we all know that Black Panther's Quest set a very high bar on the animation side of the franchise for us BP fans.

[Klaue's Mixtape]

Mairghread Scott
Matt Wayne
Jen Muro
Marc Bernardin
Charlotte Fullerton

any one of them could MURDER a panther series.


And a couple of people who have shows coming up that i'm not allowed to say and whose names you don't know yet.

Barring extremely unlikely circumstances (there are a couple of fairly narrow routes), I think we can say my time writing and/or running Black Panther things is pretty much done.

Marc woudnt imo.

Ironically, he's very much on the T'Challa needs clear flaws wave as well. Now maybe he'd do it in a way thats pleasing to a lot of people. Its just although Im a fan of him on podcasts Im not the biggest fan of him as a writer. So he'd be last of those options for me.

[skyvolt2000]

Marc woudnt imo.

Ironically, he's very much on the T'Challa needs clear flaws wave as well. Now maybe he'd do it in a way thats pleasing to a lot of people. Its just although Im a fan of him on podcasts Im not the biggest fan of him as a writer. So he'd be last of those options for me.

If you are judging Marc based on New 52 Static Shock-he was never given a shot and that no longer in the industry editor did nothing but insult the man and gave him nonstop pushback on his 2 issues.

Matt Wayne was the guy that tried to give Betty at Archie her first black love interest in 1992. He got fired and they recolored the guy white but you could tell he was black as he looked like Kid from Kid N Play.
He also did also most of the books at Milestone except Static, Xombi & Kobalt. He did parts of Hardware, all of Shadow Cabinet & Heroes.

Charlotte Fullerton-we all know who her husband was.

Yet as we all know the usual suspects would take issue with every non-black person touching T'Challa.

[skyvolt2000]

Every characters like that when they debut. Obviously there's not much story to him yet, but thats just as much an argument against hating him as it is an argument for doing so.

Show us all these books where new folks did nothing but trash the lead of the book?

Duke Thomas did not do it to Bruce Wayne.

Gambit did not do it to Storm in his first appearance.

Shuri did not do it in her first appearance.

Riri Williams did not it.

Tim Drake did not.

Starling didn't do it to Miles Morales.

Falcon did not do it to Steve.

Night Thrasher did not do it. Heck we didn't know his origin or his real background until almost 2 years into New Warriors. Yet he nor his team lifted their legs to crap on other characters.

Rage did it for one issue before he got his act together.



There is nothing to Tosin if all he does is take shots at T'Challa every chance he is in a book?

You know what that gets you-less folks interested in the book.

Less folks wanting this guy to be in a book that they like.

Alienating fans of other characters who are offended that this guy get page time over who they like.

[Ekie]

Also don't get why people are still trying to say BPWF did bad. It didn't.

When BP 1 came out we had :

No pandemic
Chadwick alive as a bankable lead
No Dplus
An Avengers movie around the corner
China BO

The pandemic, no China, and the massively increased focus on Dplus viewership has effectively changed Disney's entire release model.

They were paying close attention in 2021 and we watched them experiment with release models. What they ultimately settled on is shorter release in theaters with massive D plus promotion. Now Dplus subscribers can effectively watch this movie for free if they are willing to wait 3 months. Thats a huge difference and a lot will take advantage of that.

With all of those things it still best Thor and most other movies this year that weren't Avatar and Top Gun. Only DS2 beat it and that had less real competition. Therrs no doubt in my mind they are very happy with the numbers with all of these considered. Billion dollar movies are going to go back to pre 2018 status for marvel save for avengers films. And Disney is ok with that. They can make money from folks in theaters and have year round income from Disney plus subscribers, because once these folks watch the movies they'll probably go ahead and watch one of the shows too. And that money is all there. Ant man 3 and Marvel's ain't making a billion either. We won't see a bil til the next avengers film from Disney.

*edit

New year Wakanda movie is old news

[Ekie]

With respect to Redjack,...lets hear another voice/option.

Nah, award winning cartoon needs a follow up not a new voice

[Mantis-Ray]

In terms of upcoming media and adaptations, well Insomiac's Spider-Man 2 is coming out this year so we'll prolly be getting more info on the Cap/BP game or officially announcing the EA BP game to build up some hype for future games in the pipeline

Yeah I feel we'll prolly get some Cap/BP snippets this year hopefully

[MindofShadow]

*edit

New year Wakanda movie is old news

It pretty much is. No one talks about it at all already. It has had zero impact on anything.

In terms of upcoming media and adaptations, well Insomiac's Spider-Man 2 is coming out this year so we'll prolly be getting more info on the Cap/BP game or officially announcing the EA BP game to build up some hype for future games in the pipeline

Yeah I feel we'll prolly get some Cap/BP snippets this year hopefully

Need badly to know that the EA game is tchalla and not an OC

[Klaue's Mixtape]

It pretty much is. No one talks about it at all already. It has had zero impact on anything.



Need badly to know that the EA game is tchalla and not an OC

Ehh..that not really true. Better to just say its not as successful as the first one and leave it that.

Wouldnt be a shock if WF gets 4 or 5 oscar nominations.

[BlackClaw]

Need badly to know that the EA game is tchalla and not an OC

Same. Hopefully he is playable. I’d love it if Christopher Judge came back to play T’Challa.

[Emperorjones]

First off, a character being in opposition to a maon character isn't itself a bad thing so I dont get why that would be cause for hating him. Its a strange perspective to have towards an antagonistic character being antagonistic, bur moreover I was referring to how people are trying to claim hed replacing tchalla with him or something when there's really no evidence of any of that on the cards on Ridley art or Marvel's. The dude has barely even shown up in the book.

As for the box office, it cannot be stated to agree underperformed relative to the first because the situation of itd release was in no way similar to the first. It should be compared against other releases of rhe year to have correct context, not a film released under wildly differing smcirucmstances. It implies that the standards for its performance are set by numbers outside of context which is just dishonest at best. Underperformed means performed below expectations, and what I'm saying is Disney's expectations definitely were not for this movie to match the first, and the first exceeded their initial expectations. Viewed in context of world conditions and release conditions and Disney's new and current release model it did very well.

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough in explaining why I think Tosin isn't connecting with some people. Being in opposition by itself is not a bad thing, though the way Tosin has been written-like a bratty, annoying character that has brought little to the table except more verbal invective against T'Challa in a storyline that is brimming with it, is not going make him the most embraceable character. As for the speculation about Ridley replacing T'Challa with Tosin I see no problem with such speculation. That's a big part of fandom. Tosin is Ridley's creation, and he seems like a favorite pet character, and while T'Challa gets torn down we've seen just the slightest chiding from Shuri to Tosin, though her declaring him the future (while dismissing her brother as the past) seems to mean that she's not going to be too hard on him. And I could also read those tea leaves to speculate that if Ridley had his way that Tosin would more prominent in his run while T'Challa would be diminished, if not written out all the way. It's just Ridley is very slow at pacing and if he did have a plan it might be another 10-12 issues before it saw fruition the way he writes. He would need more time to tear down T'Challa and supposedly make him so indigestible a lead character that Ridley could put in whoever he wanted.

As for Wakanda Forever, I hear that others want to move on, and I'm fine with that. But I will write this because what I wrote before was responded to. I don't like the condescension here where people you don't agree with are "strange" or you imply that I'm being "dishonest" without looking at "context". I don't need to take shots at people to make my points. They can agree or disagree, but it isn't personal. I've been careful to look at context, and to preface my argument largely based in relation to the first film's performance. No sequel has the same circumstances as the first film, yet some do better than their first films, so what kind of argument is that to make? Are you sitting on Disney's board? Do you know what their real expectations were, outside of media spin? If not, then I would not rest my argument on expectations you don't know.

Dr. Strange 2 came after No Way Home. And? Wakanda Forever was billed as a tribute movie to Chadwick Boseman, introduced Ironheart and Namor, and a new Black Panther as well. It was the second chapter in a story way more beloved than the first Dr. Strange, WandaVision, or basically anyone sitting on the Illuminati.

At the end of the day the film underperformed compared to the first movie, and I would argue Dr. Strange 2 as well. There are many reasons for that but note that many films also had the same challenges Wakanda Forever did, while not having a month and almost a half (over the Thanksgiving holiday) to their lonesome. Again, there are many reasons for the underperformance, but what is most interesting to me is that the lower box office punctures the talk that the supporting cast alone was more popular than T'Challa. Now the supporting cast is popular, enough to get over $800 million, which is nothing to sneeze at, but still, one of the factors in this weaker box office has to be the absence of T'Challa (with Chadwick Boseman's loss a given).