T'Challa: The Black Panther Appreciation 2023

[Ezyo1000]

It pretty much is. No one talks about it at all already. It has had zero impact on anything.



Need badly to know that the EA game is tchalla and not an OC

It literally makes no sense to have a BP solo game and NOT feature T'Challa. That's just asking to fail to spite oneself

[Ekie]

It literally makes no sense to have a BP solo game and NOT feature T'Challa. That's just asking to fail to spite oneself

Really the biggest news I'm waiting on regarding the Panther. Trying to keep my hopes low though.

But honestly, how dumb could a dev/Marvel be to do something like use T'Challa's orgin story but make it an OC.

[chief12d]

Seems dumb but it is EA lol.

By the time the game comes out there’s a fair chance T’Challa will already be getting set up to retake his rightful place as lead of the franchise. He either will already be aged up and ready to be BP or if Marvel’s gonna stupidly commit to letting him age naturally, he’ll be starting his training. Either way, T’Challa has a permanent place in the MCU whether the MCU sycophants like it or not and other mediums will look incredibly stupid trying to erase him for projects set a few years from now.

The underperformance of BP2 would be magnified on a larger level if it’s anyone but T’Challa in a Black Panther game, Marvel is 100% leaving money on the table not using the most relevant BP for a AAA solo project. It’ll make money regardless but adapting T’Challa’s stories and the unique aspects of his character with the character himself will yield a far more positive critical and commercial performance. Fans (who are more vocal in the gaming space than they are in film) will be less bitchy and audiences will be more driven to purchase if it’s a project with an established character. T’Challa’s a bigger brand than any alternative, especially since this alternative won’t be able to bank on a real-life tragedy elevating people’’s interest or driving folks to see how the franchise carries on.

And it’s not like DLC and such don’t exist, T’Challa can get the main game and if the response is good enough Shuri or whichever OC they try to push can get a smaller solo project akin to Miles Morales: Spider-Man. Either as a Panther of their own or with their own hero identity. There’s no need to sideline T’Challa when the option to expand on future leads organically is readily available and gives them more opportunities to make money down the line. The base project just needs to do well enough to justify that investment.

All things considered, I expect the game to focus on T’Challa. It’s likely that they’re just adapting the origin he tends to have whenever he gets adapted. Several animated projects like EMH and the Ultimate Avengers movies had him take the mantle directly after T’Chaka is killed. Same goes for the MCU to a degree seeing as T’’Challa didn’t become BP in full until T’Chaka died. T’Challa having an introductory arc based around his predecessor’s death is standard content for him, it’s really only in the comics and the recent Avengers game they lean into the whole “wait a decade to fill your dad’s shoes” thing.

It is definitely worrying though that even in the earliest phase of development it can’t be confirmed who the lead is. But it’s important to point out that what we got wasn’t an official statement from the developer, just the interpretation of a leaker not well versed in comic lore. I’m still keeping expectations low because you never know.

[chief12d]

The only big gameplay reason I see it not being T’Challa is if the devs want to do a less character-driven campaign with a lot more role-playing elements, like a BP Skyrim or Elden Ring. But even in that situation, they still have the option of using T’Challa’s name and just allowing the player to do things like change his appearance and moral alignment.

And that kinda goes against what we already know of the game, which is that it’s a single-player experience like Jedi Fallen Order, which had a set lead with a set look (outside cosmetics) and a very character-driven story. So if you want something character-driven, commercially speaking you’re gonna get a lot more eyes on this project and avoid a lot of needless controversy using the most popular Black Panther.

Because why try to transplant the Killmonger/T’Challa rivalry or Monica Lynne/T’Challa romance to some OC when T’Challa is an option? What benefit is there in centering the marketing of a Black Panther game around an OC when T’Challa has consistently been shown to generate more sales and interest than any other Wakandan? Unless there’s a mandate from Disney or the devs have some ideological/personal bent that prevents them from using T’Challa I think he’ll be used.

[Toonstrack]

Not really. If the only trait showed is, "tchalla sucks" and I hate another character with that trait... it is a perfectly valid reason to dislike the character.

Makes more sense to dislike a character over what has been shown on panel than it does to like a character for potential... which just means, "stuff I made up in my head because Ridley stinks at character development."

Thats not all were shown though lol. He doesn't hate Tchalla at all actually he hates what TChalla represents because of how his tribe raised him. He's protective of vibenaium and treats it with an almost spiritual respect as opposed to using it for machines, as his people want to use it for biological enhancement. Hes also headstrong, overconfident and a formidable fighter.

Thats all on the pages of his breif appearances. Charactwrs cannot just be reduced to one sentence and then that used as an argument. If you're willing to shirk all of the info given off, that's again a narrative being pushed and not what's actually there.

[Toonstrack]

Show us all these books where new folks did nothing but trash the lead of the book?

Duke Thomas did not do it to Bruce Wayne.

Gambit did not do it to Storm in his first appearance.

Shuri did not do it in her first appearance.

Riri Williams did not it.

Tim Drake did not.

Starling didn't do it to Miles Morales.

Falcon did not do it to Steve.

Night Thrasher did not do it. Heck we didn't know his origin or his real background until almost 2 years into New Warriors. Yet he nor his team lifted their legs to crap on other characters.

Rage did it for one issue before he got his act together.



There is nothing to Tosin if all he does is take shots at T'Challa every chance he is in a book?

You know what that gets you-less folks interested in the book.

Less folks wanting this guy to be in a book that they like.

Alienating fans of other characters who are offended that this guy get page time over who they like.

Like I said, disliking a character simply because they don't like another character is a wierd stance for me. Especially if were given a clear and concise reason he doesn't like that character or what he represents.

I dont want every character that shows up in a tchalla book to kiss his feet for the sake of it, I want him to have some opponents and challenges and not just physical ones but ideological ones.

And there's a metric ton of characters that have been introduced in antagonistic roles and later became characters in their own right... venom and punisher, Wolverine, gambit, damian Wayne, Harley Quinn to an extent, etc etc

[Toonstrack]

. But I will write this because what I wrote before was responded to. I don't like the condescension here where people you don't agree with are "strange" or you imply that I'm being "dishonest" without looking at "context". I don't need to take shots at people to make my points. They can agree or disagree, but it isn't personal.

I do wanna address this and say that was not at all my intent. Im calling the BEHAVIOR or rationale strange, im not saying people are. Its nothing personal for me either and my intention isn't to insult anyone here or make digs at their character, but to critique the argument itself.

[Frontier]

Like I said, disliking a character simply because they don't like another character is a wierd stance for me. Especially if were given a clear and concise reason he doesn't like that character or what he represents.

I dont want every character that shows up in a tchalla book to kiss his feet for the sake of it, I want him to have some opponents and challenges and not just physical ones but ideological ones.

And there's a metric ton of characters that have been introduced in antagonistic roles and later became characters in their own right... venom and punisher, Wolverine, gambit, damian Wayne, Harley Quinn to an extent, etc etc

I think it's reasonable for the audience who are invested in the main character to not care for someone who complains/criticizes them, especially if said criticisms don't feel legitimate.

Although it's not like he's the only one...it's basically a T'Challa criticism tour with T'Challa barely able to refute anything. Which is part of the problem.

[skyvolt2000]

Like I said, disliking a character simply because they don't like another character is a wierd stance for me. Especially if were given a clear and concise reason he doesn't like that character or what he represents.

I dont want every character that shows up in a tchalla book to kiss his feet for the sake of it, I want him to have some opponents and challenges and not just physical ones but ideological ones.

And there's a metric ton of characters that have been introduced in antagonistic roles and later became characters in their own right... venom and punisher, Wolverine, gambit, damian Wayne, Harley Quinn to an extent, etc etc

Gee mainly WHITE characters who will NOT have trouble appearing in multiple books. That will allow them to become characters on their own.

Something that Tosin will NEVER have. Because aside from this book like the rest-who are NOT named T'Challa-nobody is using them.

Although it's not like he's the only one...it's basically a T'Challa criticism tour with T'Challa barely able to refute anything. Which is part of the problem.

No it's the main issue.

Damian has been tamed or put in his place numerous times for his antics.

Everyone else just lines up and go off on T'Challa. All this book needs is for Synch to show up and tell T'Challa-he's not his favorite anymore.

[Mantis-Ray]

I think it's reasonable for the audience who are invested in the main character to not care for someone who complains/criticizes them, especially if said criticisms don't feel legitimate.

Although it's not like he's the only one...it's basically a T'Challa criticism tour with T'Challa barely able to refute anything. Which is part of the problem.

His criticisms are not legitimate no.

He outright calls T'Challa a jackboot which is reason alone to dislike him

Plus when T'Challa was fighting Akili, when Tosin made a move indicating he would have intruded on the fight he made a comment implying he would have killed T'Challa himself.

There is absolutely nothing likable about him. Not even 5 full issues worth of appearances and he's already an insufferable Creator's Pet like Sally Floyd or Red Hulk back when Jeph Loeb introduced him.

[BlackClaw]

Seems dumb but it is EA lol.

By the time the game comes out there’s a fair chance T’Challa will already be getting set up to retake his rightful place as lead of the franchise. He either will already be aged up and ready to be BP or if Marvel’s gonna stupidly commit to letting him age naturally, he’ll be starting his training. Either way, T’Challa has a permanent place in the MCU whether the MCU sycophants like it or not and other mediums will look incredibly stupid trying to erase him for projects set a few years from now.

The underperformance of BP2 would be magnified on a larger level if it’s anyone but T’Challa in a Black Panther game, Marvel is 100% leaving money on the table not using the most relevant BP for a AAA solo project. It’ll make money regardless but adapting T’Challa’s stories and the unique aspects of his character with the character himself will yield a far more positive critical and commercial performance. Fans (who are more vocal in the gaming space than they are in film) will be less bitchy and audiences will be more driven to purchase if it’s a project with an established character. T’Challa’s a bigger brand than any alternative, especially since this alternative won’t be able to bank on a real-life tragedy elevating people’’s interest or driving folks to see how the franchise carries on.

And it’s not like DLC and such don’t exist, T’Challa can get the main game and if the response is good enough Shuri or whichever OC they try to push can get a smaller solo project akin to Miles Morales: Spider-Man. Either as a Panther of their own or with their own hero identity. There’s no need to sideline T’Challa when the option to expand on future leads organically is readily available and gives them more opportunities to make money down the line. The base project just needs to do well enough to justify that investment.

All things considered, I expect the game to focus on T’Challa. It’s likely that they’re just adapting the origin he tends to have whenever he gets adapted. Several animated projects like EMH and the Ultimate Avengers movies had him take the mantle directly after T’Chaka is killed. Same goes for the MCU to a degree seeing as T’’Challa didn’t become BP in full until T’Chaka died. T’Challa having an introductory arc based around his predecessor’s death is standard content for him, it’s really only in the comics and the recent Avengers game they lean into the whole “wait a decade to fill your dad’s shoes” thing.

It is definitely worrying though that even in the earliest phase of development it can’t be confirmed who the lead is. But it’s important to point out that what we got wasn’t an official statement from the developer, just the interpretation of a leaker not well versed in comic lore. I’m still keeping expectations low because you never know.

All of this. And plus there was a time when a game tried to chase the MCU’s coattails only for it to blow up in their face. That being the avengers game. When you play the main campaign it’s obvious the game was developed when the Inhumans were being pushed, and lo and behold when the game came out Marvel got the rights to the mutants and we’re all “to hell with the Inhumans”, and that’s just one of that games many problems.

They’ll be saving themselves a lot of grief if they just simply go with the T’Challa and have spin offs for other characters.

[Emperorjones]

I do wanna address this and say that was not at all my intent. Im calling the BEHAVIOR or rationale strange, im not saying people are. Its nothing personal for me either and my intention isn't to insult anyone here or make digs at their character, but to critique the argument itself.

Fair enough.

[Emperorjones]

Like I said, disliking a character simply because they don't like another character is a wierd stance for me. Especially if were given a clear and concise reason he doesn't like that character or what he represents.

I dont want every character that shows up in a tchalla book to kiss his feet for the sake of it, I want him to have some opponents and challenges and not just physical ones but ideological ones.

And there's a metric ton of characters that have been introduced in antagonistic roles and later became characters in their own right... venom and punisher, Wolverine, gambit, damian Wayne, Harley Quinn to an extent, etc etc

One thing here is that even though Ridley has given Tosin a clear reason not to like T'Challa (which is just a variation of why most of the characters in T'Challa's title don't like him) that doesn't mean that the reading audience (many of whom are T'Challa fans) will accept that reasoning or not let it color how they feel about the detractors. For a long time I think the piling on has been excessive in Ridley's run, almost at sadomasochistic levels, especially after Ridley's T'Challa joins in on whipping himself.

I don't want every character in a T'Challa book to kiss his feet either, but I ask you when is the last time that happened? If anything, we've gotten most characters taking shots at him and dumping on him. And he largely agrees with them. It's very unbalanced. I want T'Challa, like any lead character, challenged, and I want them to lose sometimes, but I also want them to be right sometimes too, as well as to fight for what they believe in and win (largely clearly and cleanly) in the end. I would like to see some people who had a bad idea of them be proven wrong too, which is the opposite for Ridley's run so far.

I do some creative writing so I definitely get the idea of putting characters through a wringer. It would be boring to not do so, but when it comes to Black Panther, the deconstruction is just so relentless it hollows out the character and makes it hard to keep reading the book. T'Challa is not the only character this has happened to. I recall a few years back how DC only seemed interested in defining John Stewart by his failures, and so I was pleased that Red Jack's Emerald Knight one-shot didn't do that.

[MindofShadow]

Thats not all were shown though lol. He doesn't hate Tchalla at all actually he hates what TChalla represents because of how his tribe raised him. He's protective of vibenaium and treats it with an almost spiritual respect as opposed to using it for machines, as his people want to use it for biological enhancement. Hes also headstrong, overconfident and a formidable fighter.

Thats all on the pages of his breif appearances. Charactwrs cannot just be reduced to one sentence and then that used as an argument. If you're willing to shirk all of the info given off, that's again a narrative being pushed and not what's actually there.

On panel, the bold is the SAME THING lol.

You ar extropalating based on limited information to make the character more than what we have actually been given because Ridley sucks at character development. You are filling in holes in the story with your own fan fiction so it feels better.

He's a "dickhead teen" archetype supe who dislikes T'challa. That is it, there is nothing more there right now.

Really the biggest news I'm waiting on regarding the Panther. Trying to keep my hopes low though.

But honestly, how dumb could a dev/Marvel be to do something like use T'Challa's orgin story but make it an OC.

A great 20+ hr video game with tchalla >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a movie for a fan. So much more content, and usually way more "comic book-ish" than movies are.

Seems dumb but it is EA lol.

YUP lol.

I can easily seem them going "the BP costume and powers is a mantle, you take over from the dead king (aka tchalla) and build your own BP through the story!"

Granted, due to the incessant "mantle" talk that was/is going on, it is easy to get paranoid that is the direction they were going when everything was so vague about the game.

But, since then (90% of the merch is T'challa, T Jr is in the MCU, the movie may have met some expectations but definitely dind't blow the doors off with the new leads)... i have some slight hope back it will just be Tchalla.

[MindofShadow]

I don't want every character in a T'Challa book to kiss his feet either, but I ask you when is the last time that happened?

Ridley- no

Coates- no

Hickman- no, T'challa was put through the ringer. And I don't agree with all the decisions, but I would say it was more akin to what I want if you are going to do that. He tore him down (everyone really) but in the end, T'challa saved the entire multiverse and ended up on top.

Liss- ain't no one around ot kiss his feat, he was in Hells Kitchen lol. Characters respected him though when they started appearing. aka his sister and 2 friends lol.

Hudlin/Mayberry- no

Hudlin- i'd say yes


So.... 2005-2008 would be the closest to any writer writing a T'challa that unfans claim all of us want "perfect." Which is a gross exaggeration but, if we take it as true, that means it was 15 years ago lol.