Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2023

[Jman27]

It also implies people who have been victimized are justified to hurt others in return, and it dismisses survivors who do not hurt others.

this is probably why I dont give Flash Thompson a pass. He gets abuse then abuse Peter. Goes to war and then gets forgiven by Peter when he returns thats too easy

[TinkerSpider]

this is probably why I dont give Flash Thompson a pass. He gets abuse then abuse Peter. Goes to war and then gets forgiven by Peter when he returns thats too easy

That’s a false equivalence.

The equivalence is Flash is abused so he bullies Peter, Peter takes a gun to school and kills dozens of students in return.

[Mercwmouth12]

That’s a false equivalence.

The equivalence is Flash is abused so he bullies Peter, Peter takes a gun to school and kills dozens of students in return.

What really was a big waste and overall disservice to Flash was from Wells himself in issue 900. You had a nice amount of character growth from Flash and in one scene where he sees Peter for the first time after coming back from the dead turns into the regressed bully persona and pisses on any of the that growth. When truly Flash respects Peter and seeing him as a friend. No one in this is whole run has acted in character and will be forgotten. Well except for Chasm

[Jman27]

What really was a big waste and overall disservice to Flash was from Wells himself in issue 900. You had a nice amount of character growth from Flash and in one scene where he sees Peter for the first time after coming back from the dead turns into the regressed bully persona and pisses on any of the that growth. When truly Flash respects Peter and seeing him as a friend. No one in this is whole run has acted in character and will be forgotten. Well except for Chasm

has he ever apologized to Peter

[Jman27]

That’s a false equivalence.

The equivalence is Flash is abused so he bullies Peter, Peter takes a gun to school and kills dozens of students in return.

that scenario is worst

[Refrax5]

I am not belittling your views, I am discussing the fictional actions of a fictional character in a fictional story.

You keep insisting I am “defending the system” when my point is that it’s understandable Janine wants to run away from it all, but how she goes about it is….asinine.

It feels like you are reading much into my words that just isn’t there. This forum allows you to put members on ignore, may I suggest you do that to me?

I never said it was justified. I said that from the character's perspective, one of a lifetime of abuse from everyone that she's supposed to trust, it makes sense from a psychological standpoint that she would end up the way she has.

You're pretty condescending to a lot of posters and get pretty insulting to the creative a lot of the time. Acting like somebody's opinion is little more than some romantic notion you need to dispel and put in quotations is definitely belittling. Maybe you're not doing it consciously, but you're definitely doing it as you have many times.

And you literally were defending the system and saying Janine was tried by a jury of his peers and doesn't get to choose what laws to flout. Ignoring that Peter's entire existence is doing just that.

[TinkerSpider]

I never said it was justified. I said that from the character's perspective, one of a lifetime of abuse from everyone that she's supposed to trust, it makes sense from a psychological standpoint that she would end up the way she has.

You're pretty condescending to a lot of posters and get pretty insulting to the creative a lot of the time. Acting like somebody's opinion is little more than some romantic notion you need to dispel and put in quotations is definitely belittling. Maybe you're not doing it consciously, but you're definitely doing it as you have many times.

And you literally were defending the system and saying Janine was tried by a jury of his peers and doesn't get to choose what laws to flout. Ignoring that Peter's entire existence is doing just that.

Apologies for touching a nerve.

Again, the ignore button is available.

[Spidey-Ben]

That size comparison makes me think Miles is under that Scarlet Spider suit.

[Kurolegacy]

What really was a big waste and overall disservice to Flash was from Wells himself in issue 900. You had a nice amount of character growth from Flash and in one scene where he sees Peter for the first time after coming back from the dead turns into the regressed bully persona and pisses on any of the that growth. When truly Flash respects Peter and seeing him as a friend. No one in this is whole run has acted in character and will be forgotten. Well except for Chasm

And not only that but he sees Peter as his hero considering the scene they had together when he died back in ASM 800.

[scarletspidey]

That size comparison makes me think Miles is under that Scarlet Spider suit.

I wouldn't worry 2099 has been shown as super bulky and large

Edit: seems to be the same height as spiderman

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https://www.hasbro.com/common/produc...21288a8419.jpg

[Daibhidh]

I never said it was justified. I said that from the character's perspective, one of a lifetime of abuse from everyone that she's supposed to trust, it makes sense from a psychological standpoint that she would end up the way she has.

It makes sense from a pop psychological standpoint. Whether it makes sense in real life... no: I don't think it does. Most abuse survivors do not go on to abuse other people. As I understand it, people like Janine are not the kind of people who in real life snap and become villains. The people who snap and lash out randomly are those who have an aggrieved sense of over-entitlement.

[Huntsman Spider]

Interesting ethical debate we've been having here. I have my own thoughts on the matter, such as they are, though in a comic book universe, it'd be relatively easy to later blame Janine's actions as Hallows' Eve on that demonic essence Madelyne implanted inside her through S'ym's severed finger amplifying her (understandable, possibly justifiable) bitterness and anger towards a world that rejected and scorned her and a system that punished her for defending herself from her heinously, hideously abusive father (thus responsible for the first betrayal of trust and shattering of innocence she experienced in her backstory prior to meeting Ben) and turning those embers into an infernal conflagration of hate and spite. Hell, we could blame the fruits from the trees of Limbo for doing the same thing to The Chasm Formerly Known as Ben Reilly, and since he was pretty far gone already due to having his memories thoroughly f***ed with by Beyond and then that psycho-reactive quantum-shifting polymeric goo he fell into at the end of that saga . . .

[The Black Death]

I’m sorry to have apparently touched a nerve.

But turning EEEVUHLLLLLLLLLLL and I’m going to continue writing 3VVVVILLLL!!11!!!!!1 that way because Wells turned Janine into a cartoon, is not a response to having the system fail you. It might be romantic and punk to you, but it’s antisocial to the extreme. It also implies people who have been victimized are justified to hurt others in return, and it dismisses survivors who do not hurt others. And acting like the only option is to submit to an unjust system or be EEEEviiiiLLL erases those who fight to right injustices and to change the system. My point was that you can’t choose what law to flout and not expect repercussions. That was not an endorsement of the system, and I already said the answer is to change it - not double down on eeeeeviLLLL. And if people would like to help change our real life system in the US, then perhaps consider a donation or volunteering with a nonprofit such as the Innocence Project, the Sentencing Project or Women’s Prison Association.

But by continuing to defend Janine’s heel turn, you are insisting two wrongs make a right. Whatever Peter does, it’s never with the active intention to knowingly harm and hurt others (unless he’s being written wholly OOC as in the original Venom deal and letting Tombstone walk). But that’s the choice Janine actively made.

I empathized with Janine. I loved her story in the The Lost Years. It was heartbreaking when she turned herself in because Ben inspired her to do the right thing. I empathize with wanting a new life and not wanting to be judged by past actions. And I never said Janine should just walk into the nearest police station. But Wells turned Janine inactive and irrational - and after she had a great arc in Beyond, it’s such an unnecessary waste.

My point is that Janine has done nothing to help herself or Ben, despite having people like MJ and Peter who would gladly help her. She wanted to run away, great, but she showed zero situational awareness. Of course if someone recognizes her, they are going to call the authorities! But does she wear a disguise? Keep a low profile? Figure out how to go somewhere with limited WiFi so she could minimize her chances of being recognized/caught? (They were using Beyond tech, surely she had access to Google.) No. She goes to a diner in New York City that probably has the TV on a news station 24/7. Duh. Again, what did she expect?

(And this is all on Wells, obviously. He’s the one who wrote her as having all the logic and common sense of a house fly).

You do realize that so far all you've been doing is blaming Janine and Ben's characters for all the crap that's going on as if it's the fault of the characters themselves, when the reality is that the only one to blame is the current writer's bad writing and incidentally also Lowe's viper's fault for allowing this all that crap to happen that way, in which case Janine and Ben would just be other victims suffering from Wells' shitty bad writing.

Because if we're going that way that the characters are acting stupid, then you can also say that Peter has been acting like such a pathetic miserable loser that been begging for his life from his enemies, acting like an insistent stalker with MJ, or how about MJ herself who's been acting like an indecisive annoying woman who hasn't cleared things up with Peter and what about Black Cat who's been acting just like Peter's second hand girlfriend as a consolation prize. And I don't see you complaining much about all that lately, all the characters at this point are acting out of character because of bad story writing, that also includes Ben and Janine, it's no surprise to learn all that, so you're just acting like a melodramatic over purely temporary stuff that won't last too long in the end.

[Jman27]

You do realize that so far all you've been doing is blaming Janine and Ben's characters for all the crap that's going on as if it's the fault of the characters themselves, when the reality is that the only one to blame is the current writer's bad writing and incidentally also Lowe's viper's fault for allowing this all that crap to happen that way, in which case Janine and Ben would just be other victims suffering from Wells' shitty bad writing.

Because if we're going that way that the characters are acting stupid, then you can also say that Peter has been acting like such a pathetic miserable loser that been begging for his life from his enemies, acting like an insistent stalker with MJ, or how about MJ herself who's been acting like an indecisive annoying woman who hasn't cleared things up with Peter and what about Black Cat who's been acting just like Peter's second hand girlfriend as a consolation prize. And I don't see you complaining much about all that lately, all the characters at this point are acting out of character because of bad story writing, that also includes Ben and Janine, it's no surprise to learn all that, so you're just acting like a melodramatic over purely temporary stuff that won't last too long in the end.

You must have not been here long then go look at the previous forums of the previous issues

[The Black Death]

You must have not been here long then go look at the previous forums of the previous issues

Yeah, I haven't been here lately because I've been dead for a long time . I've also been taking care of other things, like life itself, even so I've already seen the other forums and to be clear there's not much to highlight except the typical justified complaints with everything that's going on with Spider-Man comics, which is fair enough but repeating it too much can be very tiring and not very healthy in the long run.