Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2023

[Sr. Bungle]

PAD did one thing right: using both Kaine and the Slingers as foils for Ben. However, because he had no affection for ANY of these characters (though it sounds like he came to appreciate the original Slingers run) he really struggled to capture any of their voices -- especially Ben's. That being said, Ben and Kaine struggling with their brotherhood was one of the highlights of that series, and I believe that a series featuring both of them would do better sales than a comic featuring just one of them -- especially these days when there's "no room" for more Spiders. A Spider Clone Bros comic can at least rely on the history of Ben and Kaine as a foundation, and with a writer who actually understands and appreciates the characters, it could potentially stay afloat.

I wonder, based on the blurb others have posted, if both characters will be renouncing the "Scarlet Spider" title. Ben is Chasm, and I don't think Kaine has been referred to as a Scarlet Spider since before the PAD series, in which he was just "Kaine."

-Pav, who can't wait to see what the future holds for both characters...

Kaine was called Scarlet Spider in Slott's latest spiderverse event

[HypnoHustler]

PAD’s SS series was just really inconsistent, quality wise. The first few issues were edgelord awful. By about issue 6 or 7 it got pretty good with Ben fighting Death for Kaine’s life. That was probably the high point and they’re the only issues I ever revisit. The Slingers arc was okay, nothing to write home about. I had to think hard about what came after. Some Mysterio arc, that Damnation tie-in, some stuff with Stegron… again, fine. Nothing rising above average in quality, but nothing too offensive. And like Pav said, at least Kaine had some good interactions with Ben. But the final two issues (#24-25) are soooooo bad they just totally destroyed any legacy the book might have had. I don’t need to recap why they’re awful. You already know. I actually don’t count them as canon. I just pretend the series ended at #23 and Ben saved Abigail and left Las Vegas. From my read, it seems Spidergeddon didn’t count it either or the writer just wasn’t aware because Ben and Kaine interact in that mini like nothing happened.

[t-spider]

PAD’s SS series was just really inconsistent, quality wise. The first few issues were edgelord awful. By about issue 6 or 7 it got pretty good with Ben fighting Death for Kaine’s life. That was probably the high point and they’re the only issues I ever revisit. The Slingers arc was okay, nothing to write home about. I had to think hard about what came after. Some Mysterio arc, that Damnation tie-in, some stuff with Stegron… again, fine. Nothing rising above average in quality, but nothing too offensive. And like Pav said, at least Kaine had some good interactions with Ben. But the final two issues (#24-25) are soooooo bad they just totally destroyed any legacy the book might have had. I don’t need to recap why they’re awful. You already know. I actually don’t count them as canon. I just pretend the series ended at #23 and Ben saved Abigail and left Las Vegas. From my read, it seems Spidergeddon didn’t count it either or the writer just wasn’t aware because Ben and Kaine interact in that mini like nothing happened.

I kinda wish Ben had stayed in Vegas truthfully, far enough away from Peter, new territory, could've been mined more, and with a writer who understood him better. Then again, I also wished Kaine hadn't left Houston...

[Garlador]

I kinda wish Ben had stayed in Vegas truthfully, far enough away from Peter, new territory, could've been mined more, and with a writer who understood him better. Then again, I also wished Kaine hadn't left Houston...

The only universe that matters is the 616. The only planet that matters is Earth. The only country that matters is USA. The only state that matters is New York. The only city that matters is the Big Apple.

Generalizing, of course, but it’s still strange.

[Sr. Bungle]

I can't get over Greg Land drawing this. Is he that cheap?

[JustLuke]

I can't get over Greg Land drawing this. Is he that cheap?

Yeah, that really sucks. Let's just hope that it's only for this issue though

[Sr. Bungle]

Yeah, that really sucks. Let's just hope that it's only for this issue though

Beggars can't be choosers I guess

[Refrax5]

PAD’s SS series was just really inconsistent, quality wise. The first few issues were edgelord awful. By about issue 6 or 7 it got pretty good with Ben fighting Death for Kaine’s life. That was probably the high point and they’re the only issues I ever revisit. The Slingers arc was okay, nothing to write home about. I had to think hard about what came after. Some Mysterio arc, that Damnation tie-in, some stuff with Stegron… again, fine. Nothing rising above average in quality, but nothing too offensive. And like Pav said, at least Kaine had some good interactions with Ben. But the final two issues (#24-25) are soooooo bad they just totally destroyed any legacy the book might have had. I don’t need to recap why they’re awful. You already know. I actually don’t count them as canon. I just pretend the series ended at #23 and Ben saved Abigail and left Las Vegas. From my read, it seems Spidergeddon didn’t count it either or the writer just wasn’t aware because Ben and Kaine interact in that mini like nothing happened.

Yeah, Spider-Geddon and everything since contradicts it/acts like it didn't happen. I always just write off the ending of Ben's series as Mephisto messing with his head since Ben screwed him over earlier in the series.

I also appreciated PAD's explanation of Ben's soul being corrupted by the rapid, repeated resurrections for two reasons:

1) It established this was the actual Ben, not a "clone of a clone." It might seem like an unimportant distinction, but when the Ben Reilly character basically hinges on each clone being it's own unique person, having a clone of Ben doesn't really fly. So I'm glad PAD cleared up that it's the original soul and consciousness of Ben Reilly, because Clone Conspiracy was really unclear on that.

2) It was a much better explanation for his behavior and weird new personality than "he was tortured so much he became a delusional, homicidal maniac and sociopath."

It wasn't a great series, but it had its positives.

[Garlador]

Beggars can't be choosers I guess

My instructors were less than kind regarding Greg Land's efforts, but "he's a nice guy and hits deadlines" will trump any valid criticisms they or I could levy.

He CAN do good work. I've seen it. He's not without talent. But I hope he keeps the tracing and recycling to a minimum.

[Sr. Bungle]

My instructors were less than kind regarding Greg Land's efforts, but "he's a nice guy and hits deadlines" will trump any valid criticisms they or I could levy.

He CAN do good work. I've seen it. He's not without talent. But I hope he keeps the tracing and recycling to a minimum.

Some Nightwing issues were good, but those days are too far away now

[The Black Death]

Pretty sure everything that happened at the end of Ben's last Scarlet Spider is just being ignored. In Spider-Geddon, Ben said he'd only been killed 27 times (ignoring his 28th death at the end of his series) and Kaine defends Ben to Ock, saying Ben is less crazy these days. Basically, Spider-Geddon completely acted like that ending of Ben Reilly: Scarlet Spider happened and we're all the better for it.

I just write those last issues off as Mephisto messing with Ben's mind for backing out of their deal.

I was more joking with the last part than saying it seriously, although the idea of Ben killing Kaine is still funny because of how ironic that would be. Anyway, now leaving aside the jokes, I doubt that for now Ben kills Kaine, at least for now, and more in the future who knows, even so we will not pretend that the reunion between Ben and Kaine will be rosy and will end well, because at least someone will end up badly hurt and I bet it will be Kaine.

In fact, everything that happened at the end of the last Scarlet Spider series is still canon, and I just like to think that after all that, off-panel Ben reflected and rethought things better realizing that his soul was going to be corrupted forever was just a deception of Mephisto, that Ben after that recovered some sanity and then all the Spider-Geddon stuff happened, the rest is history. At least that gives more sense to Ben's sudden change than just making the last issues #24 and #25 of that series didn't happen, because if all those things did happen in the end, people who make believe that the events of #24 and #25 didn't happen are just fooling themselves and also to avoid emotional damage that still can't overcome.

[Coop]

At least it gets Ben away from Wells. I'll reserve judgement til I read it, but not super enthusiastic about Chasm. The concept continues to be a dud and it's on someone Marvel to prove why it's worth clinging too, besides appeasing Lowe's ego

[The Black Death]

At least it gets Ben away from Wells. I'll reserve judgement til I read it, but not super enthusiastic about Chasm. The concept continues to be a dud and it's on someone Marvel to prove why it's worth clinging too, besides appeasing Lowe's ego

You should have a little more faith by now, Cooper. We've been through this already and I don't want this to get repetitive again, I know you're still affected by the whole Chasm thing and all that Ben villainy crap, but at this point it should be clear that the problem isn't Ben as Chasm, the true two problems were Wells' inconsistent bad writing in writing Ben's character and the other problem was Marvel trying to sell Ben as a "villain" for the second fucking time, combining all those bad elements was obviously going to backfire. I won't go on too long about this, because the first problem Ben had as Chasm is already solved by getting Wells as far away from writing Ben again as possible, the second problem will naturally resolve itself over time.

And if you are so worried about Lowe's ego, well don't worry about that anymore because Lowe will continue to fill his big ego with all the hatred of Spider-Man fans with his greatest creation which is Paul. God, how I loathe that shitty character, besides of Kaine.

[HypnoHustler]

You should have a little more faith by now, Cooper. We've been through this already and I don't want this to get repetitive again, I know you're still affected by the whole Chasm thing and all that Ben villainy crap, but at this point it should be clear that the problem isn't Ben as Chasm, the true two problems were Wells' inconsistent bad writing in writing Ben's character and the other problem was Marvel trying to sell Ben as a "villain" for the second fucking time, combining all those bad elements was obviously going to backfire. I won't go on too long about this, because the first problem Ben had as Chasm is already solved by getting Wells as far away from writing Ben again as possible, the second problem will naturally resolve itself over time.

And if you are so worried about Lowe's ego, well don't worry about that anymore because Lowe will continue to fill his big ego with all the hatred of Spider-Man fans with his greatest creation which is Paul. God, how I loathe that shitty character, besides of Kaine.

What’s your problem with Kaine? I’ve known fans who don’t like him (mostly during the 90s when he was in almost every book), but I’ve never known someone who liked Ben Reilly but hated him. They kind of go together like peanut butter and jelly.

[Blanks]

How would the group feel if Ben kept his Chasm costume but swapped the colors for his Scarlet colors, post “whatever redemption/course correction story-plot” they MAY have in the works next year?