Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2023

[Reilly]

I have a bad feelings about this.

There's two options:

1. Ben will be fixed.

or

2. Kaine will be screwed over by Marvel.

And the second one is more probably.

[Jonathangoop1811]

He does not. The only clone is Spidecide, who has PeterÂ’s memories.

He does have Peter's memories too

[boots]

Don't exaggerate either, I don't have a big problem with Kaine. I detest much more other characters that even cause me repudiation, the only thing that Kaine causes me is annoyance, also to clarify things to you, that I like Ben does not mean that obligatorily I have to like Kaine. There are many reasons why I detest Kaine, I will not mention all of them obviously.

For starters I can't have any kind of esteem or sympathy for someone like Kaine who in his early days was a deranged psychopath who the only thing did was **** up Ben's life for absurd reasons, even when Ben was trying to help Kaine despite all the **** Kaine did to, even though Ben was trying to help Kaine in some way, Kaine himself kept fucking up and unfairly blaming Ben for all his misfortunes. It also doesn't help that even though Kaine became "good" never did anything to truly honor Ben, even when Ben and Kaine met again instead of Kaine trying to help Ben or at the very least Kaine apologizing for all the damage he caused Ben in the past, all Kaine did was go after Ben like a lunatic again, fighting Ben and threatening at every turn. I always found it funny that Kaine had that behavior with someone like Ben who in the beginning was just trying to help, but Kaine never did anything against the true Jackal, the one responsible for most of Kaine's misfortunes.

I also don't like the strange obsession people have of putting Ben and Kaine together to behave like "brothers" when Ben and Kaine have never had a normal brotherly relationship, at best Ben and Kaine's supposed brotherly relationship can be considered a toxic brotherly relationship.

Also for people who think that no matter how creative their ideas are to make Ben have his own "Venom" or whatever, don't get hopes up because all those ideas will never happen. More because realistically Marvel will never let Ben stop being Chasm, Marvel never likes to let go of their new toys, so can only settle for at best and hopefully Ben will stop being treated as a villain by Marvel, and that's being very positive.

i'm a little like you in that i prefer the classic kaine and find it harder to forgive him for being a murderer and the idea of a "spider bros" book is still just weird af to me

but i also won't hold it against anyone who prefers that direction.

[classicgmer]

I have a bad feelings about this.

There's two options:

1. Ben will be fixed.

or

2. Kaine will be screwed over by Marvel.

And the second one is more probably.

Yeah I mean really Nick Lowe has basically already told us point blank we're not getting any semblance of Ben that we want so no need to waste time and energy hoping for that.

Only thing that should be in question is as you said how much they'll damage Kaine by the time this is all said and done.

[Coop]

He does not. The only clone is Spidecide, who has PeterÂ’s memories.

Gotcha. Was that always the case? I don't remember it ever being stated in the Clone Saga.

I should give Yost's Scarlet Spider run a read through next plane ride I take.

[boots]

This guy we have now just ain't that. The concept has no potential. And that's proven out by Marvel's inability to do anything with it.

not to be cynical in the holiday season, but ben's "brand" is broken for me. whatever happens with the character, i won't be around for it.

though i did pick up issue one of spine tingling on someone's rec and i'm trying to avoid spoilers on this board...but either spidercide's "you think this is finished brother? i-" is one of those really poorly written bits of dialogue that obviously aren't leading anywhere and just filling the space for the hero to do something

or...spidercide was actually about to say something of actual real true importance.

i'm gonna keep reading in hope of the latter.

as for the rest of the issue...uh...that escalated quickly.

[Coop]

Yeah I mean really Nick Lowe has basically already told us point blank we're not getting any semblance of Ben that we want so no need to waste time and energy hoping for that.

Only thing that should be in question is as you said how much they'll damage Kaine by the time this is all said and done.

Yeah that's the big rub. All indications point to Lowe being committed that Ben can't exist with Peter's memories. But for me at least that's pretty foundational to what makes Ben the character I want to read about and support with my money. Without that, I'm not really interested in spending money and time to read about the character. Maybe there's some amazing Chasm story yet to be told, but that's not something I'm interested in

[boots]

Gotcha. Was that always the case? I don't remember it ever being stated in the Clone Saga.

I should give Yost's Scarlet Spider run a read through next plane ride I take.

in the clone saga years, it was clear kaine didn't have the legit memories. he started to show signs of clone degeneration causing the jackal to reject kaine before he was to be implanted with peter's memories. in redemption he says "can you imagine what it's like being born a grown man- with no clear memories- just vague intimations of a past never lived?"

so it seems like there's some sort of shadowy "genetic memory" of peter's life, which presents itself in the way kaine still feels love towards many of the people peter does and has his own warped sense of "responsibility"

i vaguely recall modern takes where it was implied kaine did have the memories after all, so it can get a bit confusing.

[boots]

He does have Peter's memories too

that's different to his clone saga depiction.

do you recall where you read that? or was he given them at some point?

[Pav]

https://www.instagram.com/p/C1U1hRXu...IxMDY2emt3bw==

One side of me: HELL YES! New Ben and Kaine comics -- here's hoping they're awesome.

Another side of me: If they're doing a Ben and Kaine miniseries, why wouldn't they have JMD do it?!

-Pav, who did enjoy Foxe's Dark X-Men miniseries...

[Huntsman Spider]

One side of me: HELL YES! New Ben and Kaine comics -- here's hoping they're awesome.

Another side of me: If they're doing a Ben and Kaine miniseries, why wouldn't they have JMD do it?!

-Pav, who did enjoy Foxe's Dark X-Men miniseries...

Same on all counts, though since this is probably meant to be set in the current canon/continuity . . . That being said, I am hoping Spidercide drops in at some point, especially after Spine-Tingling Spider-Man #3.

[the illustrious mr. kenway]

I'm more of Caine than Ben fan but I'm hoping they get a good shot in the new minseries.

[Sr. Bungle]

I'm actually so nervous right now it's insane

This, I need more info ASAP

[IamnotJudasTraveller]

I forgot, does Kaine have any Peter memories? I don't recall if he originally did or if they retroactively made it so he doesn't.

Originally I don't quite recall the Clone Saga making a very explicit statement on it, but I do remember Kaine basically telling Ben "he could love his family even if he couldn't understand the feeling" in Redemption, so it seems like it's nudging along towards him having the memories. In Clone Conspiracy, Kaine says he does have memories of Gwen, so down the road they did go for it.

As other people brought up Spidercide, he does have the memories as well. If not originally, the one-shot where he even got his name is all about Warren programming the memories of Peter Parker into him.

[boots]

Originally I don't quite recall the Clone Saga making a very explicit statement on it, but I do remember Kaine basically telling Ben "he could love his family even if he couldn't understand the feeling" in Redemption, so it seems like it's nudging along towards him having the memories. In Clone Conspiracy, Kaine says he does have memories of Gwen, so down the road they did go for it.

As other people brought up Spidercide, he does have the memories as well. If not originally, the one-shot where he even got his name is all about Warren programming the memories of Peter Parker into him.

Kaine is pretty explicit in Redemptionabout not having the memories

Though in the core CS (Maximum Clonage) books he remembers learning to be Peter with the Jackal for some time (EDIT: months) before he's rejected, which implies memories but it's not explicit.

Spidercide had them prior to being christened that. Initially he awakens as amnesiac Peter who remembers "who he is" at the graves of May and Ben.