Page 5 of 111 FirstFirst 1234567891555105 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 75 of 1659
  1. #61
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    New Jersey, U.S.A.
    Posts
    20,920

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Prime View Post
    I just hope we can give Ben and Janine a good ending guys
    Same, but with who they've got in charge of things right now . . . that's rather doubtful.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  2. #62
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Drako View Post
    Would really be a problem if everything they did with him since Slott were erased? 90% of what Marvel did with him in the current era sucks anyways.
    At least for me.
    Yeah, I don't think the Clone stuff needs more retcons and convoluted plot twists to further muddy it, especially since it's just as easy to fix Ben and use the events to further his character. Also, even if Beyond wasn't great, I would hate for one of Ben's tenured as Spider-Man to be retconned out. Besides, having him be Spidercide makes no sense and makes Janine a victim of rape-by-deception. It means that Connors and his family are also clones. It means both Death and Dr. Strange were lying independently of each other. It means that even though Osborn is reformed, he's still keeping Ben in a vat somewhere and lying about it. None of these retcons make any sense. It's just covering up bad writing with even worse writing.

    It is also a huge rip-off to people like me that have followed the character and spent money on him all this time. It also means retconning out half of his published existence.

    It's a lot easier to just fix him and move forward.

  3. #63
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    289

    Default

    So you’d rather have an awful version of Ben because you…spent money. I’d rather have this version of Ben retconned away.

  4. #64
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    So you’d rather have an awful version of Ben because you…spent money. I’d rather have this version of Ben retconned away.
    Way to miss the bulk of the statement. All of those retcons don't make sense with what's been established for both Ben and other characters and make the character's history a Hawkman-level mess.

    There's literally no reason to do it when you can easily just fix the character. Nothing bad he's done did he do in his right mind. It's also hinted pretty heavily already that Goblin Queen did something to corrupt him. It's no different than how they fixed Wally West, Hal Jordan, Tony Stark after he went crazy, Bucky Barnes, Jason Todd, etc etc etc.

    It's a much simpler and more elegant solution. Having Janine become a victim of sexual assault again, this time by a person with Ben's face, isn't the great solution some of you guys think it is.
    Last edited by Refrax5; 01-03-2023 at 07:26 PM.

  5. #65
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2021
    Posts
    2,299

    Default

    Ben and Janine (both with their new powers and right minds) against Beyond corp throwing crazy new super villains at them would be a killer pitch.

    And something very different from Peter and Miles' adventures and respective niches.

  6. #66
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sr. Bungle View Post
    Ben and Janine (both with their new powers and right minds) against Beyond corp throwing crazy new super villains at them would be a killer pitch.

    And something very different from Peter and Miles' adventures and respective niches.
    That's not a bad idea. There's a lot of interesting things they can do with Ben and Janine seeking redemption.

  7. #67
    BANNED
    Join Date
    Sep 2022
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    289

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Refrax5 View Post
    Way to miss the bulk of the statement. All of those retcons don't make sense with what's been established for both Ben and other characters and make the character's history a Hawkman-level mess.

    There's literally no reason to do it when you can easily just fix the character. Nothing bad he's done did he do in his right mind. It's also hinted pretty heavily already that Goblin Queen did something to corrupt him. It's no different than how they fixed Wally West, Hal Jordan, Tony Stark after he went crazy, Bucky Barnes, Jason Todd, etc etc etc.

    It's a much simpler and more elegant solution. Having Janine become a victim of sexual assault again, this time by a person with Ben's face, isn't the great solution some of you guys think it is.
    I cannot have a conversation with someone who thinks that’s sexual assault. Goodbye.

  8. #68

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurolegacy View Post
    Iím just gonna agree to disagree on this one. As I said, youíre free to your opinion on the matter and thatís fine. Iím just not a fan of those types of solutions especially when it comes to a focal hero as they both feel lazy and further convolutes a situation that they could make a triumphant story out of if theyíd stop doubling down on screwing over the character and actually course correct for real.
    How is this idea any lazier than Slott's "solution" to bringing Ben back? Miles Warren was just hanging out after somehow surviving "Maximum Clonage" and scoops up some of Ben's remains? He's also then cloned and killed over twenty times, only to make Ben "edgy" and "tortured?"

    Slott's approach was lazy, unimaginative, and ignored clone degeneration the same way Spider-Man #75 was forced to by Bob Harras. It would actually be inventive and refreshing to bring Ben back by acknowledging how clone degeneration really works and using that period of time between Ben's defeat at Norman's hands in the new material from the Revelations trade as the perfect opportunity for Norman to pull out another clone.

    The reason this idea wasn't used, however, is because it's clear Marvel doesn't have much love for Ben Reilly as the character he was at the end of the Clone Saga. Like DC, they seem to only bring back beloved characters to turn them into villains. Ben and Wally West should compare notes.

  9. #69
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I cannot have a conversation with someone who thinks that’s sexual assault. Goodbye.
    You've never heard of rape-by-deception? If you impersonate somebody's boyfriend and sleep with them, that's not consent. This isn't a concept I invented, dude. If you think that's not sexual assault, that's concerning.

    You can just say you don't have an argument instead of feigning outrage. Is there a particular reason you've been on a posting spree, being rude and insulting to people lately?

  10. #70
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by All Star Superman View Post
    How is this idea any lazier than Slott's "solution" to bringing Ben back? Miles Warren was just hanging out after somehow surviving "Maximum Clonage" and scoops up some of Ben's remains? He's also then cloned and killed over twenty times, only to make Ben "edgy" and "tortured?"

    Slott's approach was lazy, unimaginative, and ignored clone degeneration the same way Spider-Man #75 was forced to by Bob Harras. It would actually be inventive and refreshing to bring Ben back by acknowledging how clone degeneration really works and using that period of time between Ben's defeat at Norman's hands in the new material from the Revelations trade as the perfect opportunity for Norman to pull out another clone.

    The reason this idea wasn't used, however, is because it's clear Marvel doesn't have much love for Ben Reilly as the character he was at the end of the Clone Saga. Like DC, they seem to only bring back beloved characters to turn them into villains. Ben and Wally West should compare notes.
    I agree that Slott's way of bringing Ben back was stupid, but it's pretty well cemented by Death and Dr. Strange separately that the reanimated from CC are the originals, which extends to the Connors family and other characters as well, so you can't retcon that without retconning a lot of other stuff. There's about a million reasons that retconning it to be another character at this point makes no sense with what's been established and causes way more problems than it solves. You don't cover up bad writing with even worse writing.

    The first time he was a villain was because his soul was corrupted by the resurrection process (also a key plot point of Spider-Geddon that's pretty hard to retcon) and this time because he was brain damaged and manipulated. It's a pretty easy out for the character. You fix his mind and set him on the road to redemption like they've done with a million other characters. You don't come up with a series of nonsensical retcons that make everything vastly more convoluted and stupid. You can either go the way of Wally West and Hal Jordan where you fix it and move on or go the way of Hawkman and make the character's history an incoherent mess.

  11. #71
    An Incarnation Of Death. The Black Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    98

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I cannot have a conversation with someone who thinks thatís sexual assault. Goodbye.
    You can tell that you really don't have much idea of Ben's current situation .

    Seriously speaking, unfortunately for you that idea of yours won't happen, even more when that idea you call "retcon" doesn't make any sense nowadays, besides recently in a comic book that idea was completely discarded, so whether you like it or not you just have to accept the fact that the Ben Reilly of the 90's is the same Ben Reilly of today, most of the people here accept that fact, so the faster you accept that reality the better it will be for you, because even if you complain too much about it you won't change anything, that's the way things are now.

  12. #72
    Astonishing Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2022
    Posts
    2,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by The Black Death View Post
    You can tell that you really don't have much idea of Ben's current situation .

    Seriously speaking, unfortunately for you that idea of yours won't happen, even more when that idea you call "retcon" doesn't make any sense nowadays, besides recently in a comic book that idea was completely discarded, so whether you like it or not you just have to accept the fact that the Ben Reilly of the 90's is the same Ben Reilly of today, most of the people here accept that fact, so the faster you accept that reality the better it will be for you, because even if you complain too much about it you won't change anything, that's the way things are now.
    I think that the most realistic thing is that Ben will get restored and they might use these events to adjust his persona in the aftermath to be closer to the "intense" but heroic persona he supposedly will have in the upcoming Spider-Verse sequel.

  13. #73
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2022
    Posts
    4,391

    Default

    Anime Ben and Kaine *Crawling in my skin!! These wounds, they do not heal!*

    Crawling in My Skin.jpg
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  14. #74
    Extraordinary Member Drako's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    BR
    Posts
    5,219

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Refrax5 View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the Clone stuff needs more retcons and convoluted plot twists to further muddy it, especially since it's just as easy to fix Ben and use the events to further his character. Also, even if Beyond wasn't great, I would hate for one of Ben's tenured as Spider-Man to be retconned out. Besides, having him be Spidercide makes no sense and makes Janine a victim of rape-by-deception. It means that Connors and his family are also clones. It means both Death and Dr. Strange were lying independently of each other. It means that even though Osborn is reformed, he's still keeping Ben in a vat somewhere and lying about it. None of these retcons make any sense. It's just covering up bad writing with even worse writing.

    It is also a huge rip-off to people like me that have followed the character and spent money on him all this time. It also means retconning out half of his published existence.

    It's a lot easier to just fix him and move forward.
    Like I said before, it's fine either way for me.
    Spiderman Beyond was what brought me back to reading Marvel just for me to see him turning into a lame villain.

    I'm waiting for this Chasm thing to be over and I just don't really care how.
    DC: Dick Grayson, Wally West, Donna Troy, Yara Flor, Titans

    Some of my favorite Mangas: One Piece, Slam Dunk, Fullmetal Alchemist, HunterXHunter, Vinland Saga, Monster, Berserk, Vagabond.
    Current reading: Jujutsu Kaisen, Chainsaw Man, Spy X Family, Kaiju Nļ8, Blue Lock, Dandadan.

  15. #75
    Scarlet Spider Sam-Abraham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    Anime Ben and Kaine *Crawling in my skin!! These wounds, they do not heal!*

    Crawling in My Skin.jpg
    They look beautiful! Hopefully, we'll end up having some good Ben / Kaine content this year.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •