Ben Reilly: Spider-Man/Scarlet Spider Appreciation 2023

[Huntsman Spider]

I just hope we can give Ben and Janine a good ending guys

Same, but with who they've got in charge of things right now . . . that's rather doubtful.

[Refrax5]

Would really be a problem if everything they did with him since Slott were erased? 90% of what Marvel did with him in the current era sucks anyways.
At least for me.

Yeah, I don't think the Clone stuff needs more retcons and convoluted plot twists to further muddy it, especially since it's just as easy to fix Ben and use the events to further his character. Also, even if Beyond wasn't great, I would hate for one of Ben's tenured as Spider-Man to be retconned out. Besides, having him be Spidercide makes no sense and makes Janine a victim of rape-by-deception. It means that Connors and his family are also clones. It means both Death and Dr. Strange were lying independently of each other. It means that even though Osborn is reformed, he's still keeping Ben in a vat somewhere and lying about it. None of these retcons make any sense. It's just covering up bad writing with even worse writing.

It is also a huge rip-off to people like me that have followed the character and spent money on him all this time. It also means retconning out half of his published existence.

It's a lot easier to just fix him and move forward.

[KyleWayne]

So you’d rather have an awful version of Ben because you…spent money. I’d rather have this version of Ben retconned away.

[Refrax5]

So you’d rather have an awful version of Ben because you…spent money. I’d rather have this version of Ben retconned away.

Way to miss the bulk of the statement. All of those retcons don't make sense with what's been established for both Ben and other characters and make the character's history a Hawkman-level mess.

There's literally no reason to do it when you can easily just fix the character. Nothing bad he's done did he do in his right mind. It's also hinted pretty heavily already that Goblin Queen did something to corrupt him. It's no different than how they fixed Wally West, Hal Jordan, Tony Stark after he went crazy, Bucky Barnes, Jason Todd, etc etc etc.

It's a much simpler and more elegant solution. Having Janine become a victim of sexual assault again, this time by a person with Ben's face, isn't the great solution some of you guys think it is.

[Sr. Bungle]

Ben and Janine (both with their new powers and right minds) against Beyond corp throwing crazy new super villains at them would be a killer pitch.

And something very different from Peter and Miles' adventures and respective niches.

[Refrax5]

Ben and Janine (both with their new powers and right minds) against Beyond corp throwing crazy new super villains at them would be a killer pitch.

And something very different from Peter and Miles' adventures and respective niches.

That's not a bad idea. There's a lot of interesting things they can do with Ben and Janine seeking redemption.

[KyleWayne]

Way to miss the bulk of the statement. All of those retcons don't make sense with what's been established for both Ben and other characters and make the character's history a Hawkman-level mess.

There's literally no reason to do it when you can easily just fix the character. Nothing bad he's done did he do in his right mind. It's also hinted pretty heavily already that Goblin Queen did something to corrupt him. It's no different than how they fixed Wally West, Hal Jordan, Tony Stark after he went crazy, Bucky Barnes, Jason Todd, etc etc etc.

It's a much simpler and more elegant solution. Having Janine become a victim of sexual assault again, this time by a person with Ben's face, isn't the great solution some of you guys think it is.

I cannot have a conversation with someone who thinks that’s sexual assault. Goodbye.

[All Star Superman]

I’m just gonna agree to disagree on this one. As I said, you’re free to your opinion on the matter and that’s fine. I’m just not a fan of those types of solutions especially when it comes to a focal hero as they both feel lazy and further convolutes a situation that they could make a triumphant story out of if they’d stop doubling down on screwing over the character and actually course correct for real.

How is this idea any lazier than Slott's "solution" to bringing Ben back? Miles Warren was just hanging out after somehow surviving "Maximum Clonage" and scoops up some of Ben's remains? He's also then cloned and killed over twenty times, only to make Ben "edgy" and "tortured?"

Slott's approach was lazy, unimaginative, and ignored clone degeneration the same way Spider-Man #75 was forced to by Bob Harras. It would actually be inventive and refreshing to bring Ben back by acknowledging how clone degeneration really works and using that period of time between Ben's defeat at Norman's hands in the new material from the Revelations trade as the perfect opportunity for Norman to pull out another clone.

The reason this idea wasn't used, however, is because it's clear Marvel doesn't have much love for Ben Reilly as the character he was at the end of the Clone Saga. Like DC, they seem to only bring back beloved characters to turn them into villains. Ben and Wally West should compare notes.

[Refrax5]

I cannot have a conversation with someone who thinks that’s sexual assault. Goodbye.

You've never heard of rape-by-deception? If you impersonate somebody's boyfriend and sleep with them, that's not consent. This isn't a concept I invented, dude. If you think that's not sexual assault, that's concerning.

You can just say you don't have an argument instead of feigning outrage. Is there a particular reason you've been on a posting spree, being rude and insulting to people lately?

[Refrax5]

How is this idea any lazier than Slott's "solution" to bringing Ben back? Miles Warren was just hanging out after somehow surviving "Maximum Clonage" and scoops up some of Ben's remains? He's also then cloned and killed over twenty times, only to make Ben "edgy" and "tortured?"

Slott's approach was lazy, unimaginative, and ignored clone degeneration the same way Spider-Man #75 was forced to by Bob Harras. It would actually be inventive and refreshing to bring Ben back by acknowledging how clone degeneration really works and using that period of time between Ben's defeat at Norman's hands in the new material from the Revelations trade as the perfect opportunity for Norman to pull out another clone.

The reason this idea wasn't used, however, is because it's clear Marvel doesn't have much love for Ben Reilly as the character he was at the end of the Clone Saga. Like DC, they seem to only bring back beloved characters to turn them into villains. Ben and Wally West should compare notes.

I agree that Slott's way of bringing Ben back was stupid, but it's pretty well cemented by Death and Dr. Strange separately that the reanimated from CC are the originals, which extends to the Connors family and other characters as well, so you can't retcon that without retconning a lot of other stuff. There's about a million reasons that retconning it to be another character at this point makes no sense with what's been established and causes way more problems than it solves. You don't cover up bad writing with even worse writing.

The first time he was a villain was because his soul was corrupted by the resurrection process (also a key plot point of Spider-Geddon that's pretty hard to retcon) and this time because he was brain damaged and manipulated. It's a pretty easy out for the character. You fix his mind and set him on the road to redemption like they've done with a million other characters. You don't come up with a series of nonsensical retcons that make everything vastly more convoluted and stupid. You can either go the way of Wally West and Hal Jordan where you fix it and move on or go the way of Hawkman and make the character's history an incoherent mess.

[The Black Death]

I cannot have a conversation with someone who thinks that’s sexual assault. Goodbye.

You can tell that you really don't have much idea of Ben's current situation .

Seriously speaking, unfortunately for you that idea of yours won't happen, even more when that idea you call "retcon" doesn't make any sense nowadays, besides recently in a comic book that idea was completely discarded, so whether you like it or not you just have to accept the fact that the Ben Reilly of the 90's is the same Ben Reilly of today, most of the people here accept that fact, so the faster you accept that reality the better it will be for you, because even if you complain too much about it you won't change anything, that's the way things are now.

[Refrax5]

You can tell that you really don't have much idea of Ben's current situation .

Seriously speaking, unfortunately for you that idea of yours won't happen, even more when that idea you call "retcon" doesn't make any sense nowadays, besides recently in a comic book that idea was completely discarded, so whether you like it or not you just have to accept the fact that the Ben Reilly of the 90's is the same Ben Reilly of today, most of the people here accept that fact, so the faster you accept that reality the better it will be for you, because even if you complain too much about it you won't change anything, that's the way things are now.

I think that the most realistic thing is that Ben will get restored and they might use these events to adjust his persona in the aftermath to be closer to the "intense" but heroic persona he supposedly will have in the upcoming Spider-Verse sequel.

[CaptainUniverse]

Anime Ben and Kaine *Crawling in my skin!! These wounds, they do not heal!*

Crawling in My Skin.jpg

[Drako]

Yeah, I don't think the Clone stuff needs more retcons and convoluted plot twists to further muddy it, especially since it's just as easy to fix Ben and use the events to further his character. Also, even if Beyond wasn't great, I would hate for one of Ben's tenured as Spider-Man to be retconned out. Besides, having him be Spidercide makes no sense and makes Janine a victim of rape-by-deception. It means that Connors and his family are also clones. It means both Death and Dr. Strange were lying independently of each other. It means that even though Osborn is reformed, he's still keeping Ben in a vat somewhere and lying about it. None of these retcons make any sense. It's just covering up bad writing with even worse writing.

It is also a huge rip-off to people like me that have followed the character and spent money on him all this time. It also means retconning out half of his published existence.

It's a lot easier to just fix him and move forward.

Like I said before, it's fine either way for me.
Spiderman Beyond was what brought me back to reading Marvel just for me to see him turning into a lame villain.

I'm waiting for this Chasm thing to be over and I just don't really care how.

[Sam-Abraham]

Anime Ben and Kaine *Crawling in my skin!! These wounds, they do not heal!*

Crawling in My Skin.jpg

They look beautiful! Hopefully, we'll end up having some good Ben / Kaine content this year.