Wonder Woman Rogues Gallery Appreciation 2023

[Agent Z]

Female supervillains generally fall under four categories:

1) The misandrist.

2) The sexualized femme fatale.

3) The woman scorned.

4) The female lackey.

Morrison's Superwoman falls under category 2. Her entire character revolves around being a walking sex joke. She dresses like a dominatrix and talks like one. She is neither exceptionally powerful nor particularly clever and her character basically revolves around the men she is sleeping with.

[WonderScott]

Dr. Psycho & the Arrow characters don't really interact but I think it's good to show Diana's villains outside her comic to reinforce their prominence.

I haven’t read the issue yet, but purchased it digitally today. I’m just always reflexively concerned about Diana’s villains getting co-opted as DCU villains when they haven’t had lots of primary stories that associate them with that hero. Doctor Psycho should be one of Diana’s primary archenemies to me, but we rarely get to see him that way from my POV.

[Agent Z]

Couldn't disagree more.

Morrison's Superwoman was a sexy, brilliant, passionate, independent and sexually empowered and powerful supervillainess and major turn-on for any red-blooded heterosexual male, young or old, who read E2. Anyone, straight or similarly oriented, can attest to enjoying other aspects of the character and the story, she was featured in -the action, the conflict, superpowers, etc - as much as the things about her, we thought were sexy.

There's nothing wrong with creating a female character, who is sexually exciting to straight men, and nothing shameful about being excited by Superwoman. Furthermore, being turned on by her, Dark Phoenix, Wonder Woman or any female character in a fictional work doesn't mean you are intellectually incapable of enjoying other aspects of that work or ANY media work, fiction or non-fiction.

I think dismissing how Superwoman and similar female characters are written, as inherently "wrong", ..is anti-feminist, anti-heterosexual and anti-male. It's not inclusive or progressive, in any way.

It's time we point out, here in our WW fan community, that everything in the media, which is affirmative of straight male interests (attraction to women) isn't wrong or criminal. Further, the condemnation of anything we see, which straight males find exciting, ..isn't automatically feminist, progressive, just ..or right. Or better.

This fifty-years long WW fan thinks Grant Morrison's Superwoman was way hot. No apologies (over here) for thinking that, ..and if you don't, that's your problem or your reality. It's not Grant Morrison's and not the problem of comic fans, who happen to be attracted to women.

Again, being anti-str8 or anti-man...not inclusive and not feminist.



So this commune or enclosed society is something like Genosha or Magneto's asteroid in the X-MEN comics? I like the prospect of how this idea broadens Wonder Woman's role in her narrative and the broader DC Universe.

Making it a city, one that's an inter-dimensional gateway or port city for paranormal beings of diverse backgrounds, invites writers to see Wonder Woman's world as extending beyond myth-inspired heroic fantasy elements of it. This expanded view might be extended to Ares, Doctor Cyber and Circe, finally realizing their potential to be trans-genre characters, ready for use in stories that show them to be considerable threats to the DCU, at large...

Showing them to be equals of Darkseid, Trigon and the rest, by people, who don't read WW. I think WW fans, here and elsewhere, would be thrilled if comic fans outside of our community were looking for Circe and the others - not all of them, but more of them - feeling they were universally appealing enough for inclusion in a broad range of stories, across the DCU.

Wow, that's quite a leap of logic from what I actually said.

Yes, I'm sure the character who was designed to be sexy and nothing else was enjoyed by people who found her sexy and nothing else. Let's not pretend there is anything unique or innovative about Morrison's Superwoman. She's a dime a dozen when it comes to female characters, especially female supervillains. I feel I shouldn't have to explain to a fellow Wonder Woman fan of all people why there is nothing to respect or defend of such a laughable sexist caricature or that criticizing sexually exploitative writing is not the same thing as demonising straight men. If I believed that, I wouldn't read superhero comics at all.

The Wonder Woman community doesn't need to point out that there is nothing wrong with being a heterosexual guy who is turned on by attractive women. We have an entire entertainment industry, to say nothing of a certain movement in geek circles to do that.

So relax. You're not going to lose Morrison's Superwoman because of my one comment about how much she sucks.

[WonderScott]

I quite like the concept of Superwoman as a Wonder adversary. (Obviously, from my icon photo.) But, I think we’ve barely scratched the surface of what could make her a great Wonder and DCU villain. There could be so much more to her, as well as the other contemporary members of the Crime Syndicate, that just hasn’t been created yet.

I can see aspects of many portrayals of her folding into the development of a much more nuanced, complex character. She’s a doppelgänger of Diana after all. No reason she should be less interesting, complexity-wise. But, I’m also a fan of good evil doppelgänger stories - another trope I enjoy I guess! (When done really well.)

[Phoenixx9]

I quite like the concept of Superwoman as a Wonder adversary. (Obviously, from my icon photo.) But, I think we’ve barely scratched the surface of what could make her a great Wonder and DCU villain. There could be so much more to her, as well as the other contemporary members of the Crime Syndicate, that just hasn’t been created yet.

I can see aspects of many portrayals of her folding into the development of a much more nuanced, complex character. She’s a doppelgänger of Diana after all. No reason she should be less interesting, complexity-wise. But, I’m also a fan of good evil doppelgänger stories - another trope I enjoy I guess! (When done really well.)

Well said. There is so much great potential here that could be told with SW, and I for one would like to learn more about her Damnation Island, the Queen (was it her?), was there a tournament, how did she obtain her magic lasso, etc.

Another example is the original version who loved a good fight, was not afraid of anyone, not even Superman who she punched out, and SW was always willing to test her strength against another person, especially if they said they were super-strong.

Also, just to make a correction to an above statement, as an evil version of WW, Superwoman is as strong and fast and durable as Wonder Woman, so she is exceptionally strong.

[Mel Dyer]

...confused. How was Agent Z's implying in any way that they dislike Morrison's SW due to her being attractive to hetero men???

I reject that there's anything wrong with how Superwoman or any other free, sexually empowered woman character is written in any media work - no matter how she expresses herself sensually or the impact of that expression in a given story, with good or ill intentions. These expressed and conflicting opinions are our own, Z's and mine. I forgot that for a second and went nuclear on him.

Your approach was more democratic, intellectually challenging and honored our right to differing opinions. Better than mine, all around.

Thanks, doc.

[Gaius]

I'm gonna go with Agent Z, actually. I think Power Woman is actually a pretty poor "evil warped Wonder Woman". In fact, most evil WWs are.

I've brought it up before but I think an "evil Wonder Woman" should pretty much be the complete opposite of how "evil WW" is usually portrayed (whether it be Power Woman or Tom Taylor's War Crimes Woman) by amping up the dominatrix/sex appeal roots of Wonder Woman (usually because most comic writer/artists are horny) but if one were to really dig into Diana's roots, an evil WW would be the most joyless sex-negative character possible.

Margaret White (from Carrie) meets Nurse Ratched pretty much.

[marhawkman]

I'm gonna go with Agent Z, actually. I think Power Woman is actually a pretty poor "evil warped Wonder Woman". In fact, most evil WWs are.

I've brought it up before but I think an "evil Wonder Woman" should pretty much be the complete opposite of how "evil WW" is usually portrayed (whether it be Power Woman or Tom Taylor's War Crimes Woman) by amping up the dominatrix/sex appeal roots of Wonder Woman (usually because most comic writer/artists are horny) but if one were to really dig into Diana's roots, an evil WW would be the most joyless sex-negative character possible.

Margaret White (from Carrie) meets Nurse Ratched pretty much.

Ah, yes, like how Kommand'r wears LESS revealing clothes despite being Koriand'r's evil counterpart.

[Psy-lock]

I'd argue that Superwoman being a sexist caricature sort of work as an evil counterpart to a feminist hero. The problem is that 90% of female villains are like that (or at least started out like that), so it's both sexist and overdone.

[Agent Z]

I'd argue that Superwoman being a sexist caricature sort of work as an evil counterpart to a feminist hero. The problem is that 90% of female villains are like that (or at least started out like that), so it's both sexist and overdone.

My point exactly.

[John Venus]

I think a true evil WW would be some one who is aggressive, rage fueled and wouldn't hesitant to spark conflict at any point. Unfortunately, that's how some writers think regular WW should be!

But I am amused by the idea of evil WW being a joy less sex negative prude since it was first brought up in these threads.

[WonderScott]

Well said. There is so much great potential here that could be told with SW, and I for one would like to learn more about her Damnation Island, the Queen (was it her?), was there a tournament, how did she obtain her magic lasso, etc.

Another example is the original version who loved a good fight, was not afraid of anyone, not even Superman who she punched out, and SW was always willing to test her strength against another person, especially if they said they were super-strong.

Also, just to make a correction to an above statement, as an evil version of WW, Superwoman is as strong and fast and durable as Wonder Woman, so she is exceptionally strong.

If I ever complete (haha!) my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee, I think you’ll appreciate some of the things I’ve done with Superwoman P9. Since she’s a favorite of ours.

[Nyssane]

[Phoenixx9]

If I ever complete (haha!) my Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee, I think you’ll appreciate some of the things I’ve done with Superwoman P9. Since she’s a favorite of ours.

Hey, WonderScott!

Yes, I would love a peak at that Wonder Woman Series Bible Thingee that you have long been compiling! Especially the Superwoman part! She is such a favorite of ours! In fact, she is my FAVORITE Bad Lady, lol!

[Dr. Poison]

Somewhere there's a secret origin story of how Queen Clea and Zara found the same clothing retailer.