Damian Wayne/Robin Appreciation 2023.

[Morgoth]

Once again no Damian in solicits at all.
To be honest, I'm starting to be a little bit worried regarding Lazarus Planet ending.

[adrikito]

I liked the final image in URBAN LEGENDS 23 Thomas&Martha Wayne story

damian wayne batfamily urban legends.jpg

[Jackalope89]

I liked the final image in URBAN LEGENDS 23 Thomas&Martha Wayne story

damian wayne batfamily urban legends.jpg

It was good, but it would have been better to bring the rest of the family as well.

[Astralabius]

Once again no Damian in solicits at all.
To be honest, I'm starting to be a little bit worried regarding Lazarus Planet ending.

Even if he ends up being fine after his sacrifice, it's kinda disappointing that he doesn't seem to show up anywhere in main continuity for at least two months.

The Free Comic Book day issue comes out in May, but was already in the solicitations for April. It didn't say what characters will appear in it though. So maybe they will tease their plans for Damian there, but we can't be sure of that and since all new titles for the first half of 2023 seem to be announced a new title starring Damian would only start in the second half.

PKJ said Damian won't show up in Action Comics.
Zdarsky said he hasn't had the chance to write Damian because of Mark Waid's plans in a recent interview with Word Baloon. Considering how far in advance scripts are usually done I fear that means Damian won't show up in the main Batman book anytime soon.
I haven't heard anything about Ram V using Damian in Detective either.

So yeah, it doesn't sound too good right now. No matter what ends up happening in Batman vs Robin #5.

[Fergus]

I liked the final image in URBAN LEGENDS 23 Thomas&Martha Wayne story

damian wayne batfamily urban legends.jpg

This was a perfect story arc to round up Urban Legends.

I felt very warm and positive afterwards.

While it would have been good to see other members, having such a small cast meant the focused wasn't spread too thin.

So the small cast each benefited by getting more space to play a meaningful role.

The choice of Bruce, Dick and Damian was ideal for me since Damian hasn't had much positive interaction with either Bruce or Dick for about a year.

[Fergus]

Disappointing that there was yet again no Damian in the solicits.
I know stories are written in advance and Waid locked Damian down. Which is frustrating [reminds me of Rebirth era when editorial declared him off limits, forcing writers to jump through hoops to use him]

Lots of writers aren't fond of the character and the ones who like him aren't allowed to use him. Bang up job DC

I know DC has plans for Damian and was taking pitches. His absence gave the new Robin series room to catch on free from a competitor.

Letting readers get a feel of Tim's new Status Quo.
However with the sales of that series being what they are I'm sure DC is currently picking up the pace to get the other Robin out there in stories.

Damian will beck soon. It's not like he is the only prominent character that's not present.

[Rac7d*]

Disappointing that there was yet again no Damian in the solicits.
I know stories are written in advance and Waid locked Damian down. Which is frustrating [reminds me of Rebirth era when editorial declared him off limits, forcing writers to jump through hoops to use him]

Lots of writers aren't fond of the character and the ones who like him aren't allowed to use him. Bang up job DC

I know DC has plans for Damian and was taking pitches. His absence gave the new Robin series room to catch on free from a competitor.

Letting readers get a feel of Tim's new Status Quo.
However with the sales of that series being what they are I'm sure DC is currently picking up the pace to get the other Robin out there in stories.

Damian will beck soon. It's not like he is the only prominent character that's not present.

I dont feel his absence since he is appearing every week in Lazarus book

[Rac7d*]

You seriously think giving Damian a tool that would give him the ability to do basically anything, since magic is so damn vague in DC, wouldn't change things for him? What?

But ignoring that, Waid's whole point with Bruce and magic in Batman vs Robin was that Batman can never really use magic because it would mean submitting to a higher power.
And Damian's whole thing is not submitting to anyone.
If it turns out that Damian's sacrifice is going to be something like submitting to magic to use it then I don't think Waid gets the character at all.
Damian should never develope in a way where he ever truly submits to anything because it would mean losing his core.
Damian being stubborn, independent and unimpressed by things and people the world tells you to worship is not something that needs fixing.

Do you think hes suddenly become Zatanna/Scarlet Witch, character that modern writers don't know how to use in stories due to predecessor making their power limitless? His ability could simply just being pulling a sword out of nothing, it doesnt have to be the utmost extreme.

Batman is a sacrifice of which bruce gives all himself in order to do the most for the world. He could not properly utilize magic to the fullest because of the way his mind works, he is not as compatible with it as other would be.But he still used to stop the threat. Damian absoluteLY would and has made sacrifices in order to save others. if that means selling his soul for a magic contract then yes it something he would do. in fct we know this future is still in effect for him as of Dark Crisis the dark army


Why is it considered a submission ? Is it like using steroids he wanst good enough on his own, do you see it as cheating?

[CPSparkles]

Do you think hes suddenly become Zatanna/Scarlet Witch, character that modern writers don't know how to use in stories due to predecessor making their power limitless? His ability could simply just being pulling a sword out of nothing, it doesnt have to be the utmost extreme.

Batman is a sacrifice of which bruce gives all himself in order to do the most for the world. He could not properly utilize magic to the fullest because of the way his mind works, he is not as compatible with it as other would be.But he still used to stop the threat. Damian absoluteLY would and has made sacrifices in order to save others. if that means selling his soul for a magic contract then yes it something he would do. in fct we know this future is still in effect for him as of Dark Crisis the dark army


Why is it considered a submission ? Is it like using steroids he wanst good enough on his own, do you see it as cheating?

Damian looks very young in this.

So Damian has already exchanged his soul for magical powers to ensure the safety of Gotham. He did that in City of Bane when he was 13.

Now at 14 he's making another deal?

If he keeps making these deals then at some point in the future, there's going to be a devil war. With the many devils of the DC world going to court each armed with an IOU signed by Damian Wayne.

Damian is a solider. He is accustomed to putting in effort so him taking every shortcut doesn't sound that Damian.

It's one thing to exchange your soul to save Gotham from an Apocalypse.
It's one thing to risk your soul because you are desperately trying to win favour in the father's eyes but to do it just for the sake of power isn't something Damian or batman would do.

They would choose to do the hard work and the training.

Also, I wonder if Bruce ever asked what price his teen son had to pay safeguarding Gotham while Bruce was busy sipping cocktails and learning how to throw Batarangs with Selina?

[Astralabius]

Do you think hes suddenly become Zatanna/Scarlet Witch, character that modern writers don't know how to use in stories due to predecessor making their power limitless? His ability could simply just being pulling a sword out of nothing, it doesnt have to be the utmost extreme.

Batman is a sacrifice of which bruce gives all himself in order to do the most for the world. He could not properly utilize magic to the fullest because of the way his mind works, he is not as compatible with it as other would be.But he still used to stop the threat. Damian absoluteLY would and has made sacrifices in order to save others. if that means selling his soul for a magic contract then yes it something he would do. in fct we know this future is still in effect for him as of Dark Crisis the dark army


Why is it considered a submission ? Is it like using steroids he wanst good enough on his own, do you see it as cheating?

So what you propose is basically "Damian is the magic Robin, but he sucks at it and only uses it a little bit?" Then don't do it, the bats already pull their items out of nothing most of the time, don't need magic to do that.

Did you even read Batman vs Robin? I pulled the explanation for Bruce's problems straight from that and also read the interviews Waid gave where he talked about it. And Bruce didn't manage to stop the threat, he failed, that was the whole point, he isn't able to submit to magic and that is why he fails.

If we're talking about Batman 666, even Damian called the way he worked cheating because he knew he wasn't as good as Bruce or Dick, so yes.

Also, present Damian may be able to submit shorterm for a short sacrifice, but it wouldn't work with his character longterm.
You can't use an Elseworld story to say what works or doesn't work for main continuity.
If magic is constant submission (the word submission was used by Waid himself btw) then Damian is not suited to do it.

[Perfidiously]

Damian is a solider. He is accustomed to putting in effort so him taking every shortcut doesn't sound that Damian.

It's one thing to exchange your soul to save Gotham from an Apocalypse.
It's one thing to risk your soul because you are desperately trying to win favour in the father's eyes but to do it just for the sake of power isn't something Damian or batman would do.

They would choose to do the hard work and the training.

I don't know. I guess I've always viewed Damian as very pragmatic, and the kind of person to use any tool at his disposal. He took down Gotham Girl with magic, and told Superman to his face that he'd use magic to defeat him. And he grew up with magic around him, so I don't think he'd have the same aversion to it that his father has. It's just another tool at his disposal.

[CPSparkles]

I don't know. I guess I've always viewed Damian as very pragmatic, and the kind of person to use any tool at his disposal. He took down Gotham Girl with magic, and told Superman to his face that he'd use magic to defeat him. And he grew up with magic around him, so I don't think he'd have the same aversion to it that his father has. It's just another tool at his disposal.

I don't disagree that he is pragmatic and will be willing to use any tools at his disposal to achieve his goal.

I agree that Damian will use magic if necessary.
I just think that he'll work to learn and gain the skills rather than just take the short cut especially after he'd been burned once when he was younger.

I have to wonder why since he grew around it why Talia didn't add that to his skill set?

Was there a reason why Talia neglected to have him learn magic? Maybe she didn't feel it was necessary or too dangerous.

Now I'm curious about that.

[Perfidiously]

I have to wonder why since he grew around it why Talia didn't add that to his skill set?

Was there a reason why Talia neglected to have him learn magic? Maybe she didn't feel it was necessary or too dangerous.

Now I'm curious about that.

That's an interesting question! Possibly, yeah, she felt it was dangerous or unnecessary. Possibly she just wanted him to focus on his assassin skills for now, and if he stayed he would've learned. But I can't off the top of my head think of her really using magic either - perhaps she's just not a fan?

[Jackalope89]

That's an interesting question! Possibly, yeah, she felt it was dangerous or unnecessary. Possibly she just wanted him to focus on his assassin skills for now, and if he stayed he would've learned. But I can't off the top of my head think of her really using magic either - perhaps she's just not a fan?

The only magic the al'Ghuls really "do", is the Lazarus Pits. Which have their own issues.

[CPSparkles]

That's an interesting question! Possibly, yeah, she felt it was dangerous or unnecessary. Possibly she just wanted him to focus on his assassin skills for now, and if he stayed he would've learned. But I can't off the top of my head think of her really using magic either - perhaps she's just not a fan?

That's the curious part since just like you said re Damian, Talia is also very pragmatic and will not hesitate to use any tool at her disposal to get what she wants.

Assassin skills were just one facet of Damian's training. Remember Talia's goal with Damian wasn't to raise an assassin but to manufacture the next Alexander The Great.

He was being trained to take and change the world. He was raising a conqueror. Even his name reflects this. Damian- to tame, To subdue. The original Greek Damianos from which it derives from literally means to conquer.

One would think that magic would be very beneficial for a person whose goal is to take over the whole world. If I had such grand plans I would definitely make magic one of the first skills I master.

Talia brought in experts from all over the world to tutor Damian so it wasn't even a case of what skills/crafts they had access to within the LOA. She out sourced a bunch of his education.

He learnt how to mimic, he learnt how to psychically move his internal organs out of harms way and yet he did not learn magic? Moving organs sounds like something that's part of the 'magic curriculum'
Perhaps you are correct that he was to learn more as he got older.


I know that lot of Damian's skills [the OTT bogus ones] are essentially tossed in for comedy reasons. Poking fun at the whole Batman can do anything trope but if writers are going to tell us that he can move his organs with his mind then it raises questions about what exactly he was trained in.

It's such a shame that Damian never got a solo that ran it's course. There's a lot of his past that we don't know. A lot that needs fleshing out.