Damian Wayne/Robin Appreciation 2023.

[dietrich]

Agreed, I would even argue removing Tim from Damian's story does both of them a favor.

Yeah, that rivalry went no where. It has never been properly explored, no writer has ever tried to use it in a meaningful way in story or tried to look at the two characters and reveal the emotions behind the so called rivalry.

It's not relevant. It didn't end up leading to much. All it did was hurt both characters.

[Morgoth]

Damian and Tim is a relationship which had a really interesting potential, but it eventually went nowhere, mostly because it always came to both characters fanbases rivalry. Even with writers, lol.

[dietrich]

I was wondering why the upcoming batman and Robin movie is called The brave and The Bold.

What if they are planning on emulating the cartoon series?

A series of movies that partners batman with members of the Batfamily?

The brave and the bold in this case being the Brave and the bold heroes that were inspired by Batman.

The Batfamily?

That's what I would do. Use it as a way to introduce the Bat family.

[dietrich]

Damian and Tim is a relationship which had a really interesting potential, but it eventually went nowhere, mostly because it always came to both characters fanbases rivalry. Even with writers, lol.

Indeed. it's strange how even the writers pick sides or even try to fuel it [Bendis on twitter] and yet none has tried to explore it more in story. It's just manifested in weird and juvenile jabs [at Damian] online, in story, in interviews and in solicits.

Either address it properly as an arc or let it go. Don't try to use it promote a title, fuel online discuss as PR for an upcoming series or for cheap shots.

It's not a good way to get fans backing a character, it hasn't led to sales and it is meaningless in story.

I don't get why/how editors and the marketing team let these writer get away with some stuff we've seen. they are both DC IPs. The goal should be to strengthen both IPs.

To bring in new and lapsed readers not to encourage tribalism.

Those tactics have simply resulted in more division of the Robin fanbase and less money coming in.

[Morgoth]

It's because people who wrote Tim over the past few years are more interested in nostalgia and making some point about ''what Robin must represent''. And people who wrote Damian, well, they actually were interested in making stories. Sometime bad ones, but still, it hasn't been driven by nostalgia and archetypes.

[Frontier]

I remember Damian showing Tim respect after he "died."

[Astralabius]

It's because people who wrote Tim over the past few years are more interested in nostalgia and making some point about ''what Robin must represent''. And people who wrote Damian, well, they actually were interested in making stories. Sometime bad ones, but still, it hasn't been driven by nostalgia and archetypes.

Doesn't help that talking about "what Robin must represent" is often just insulting the other Robins and saying that Tim is simply better than them. Yeah, sure, that's going to make people like Tim...

It's just so frustrating, it feels like DC doesn't want to commit to Damian as Robin because they feel nostalgia for Tim as Robin, but as the last few years have shown this nostalgia for Tim as Robin doesn't mean they have an actual plan for what he's supposed to do now that he's Robin again and Damian is always kept far away from Gotham and the batfam.

[CPSparkles]

Smart move. Gunn is making choices with other Projects in mind.

Reeves has a young Batman who is starting out.

To contrast that Gunn's batman is pretty much the current batman. older, experienced and he has built a family. Damian as the recent Robin to join means that in universe Nightwing, Red Hood, Red Robin, Batgirl and co.

Planning it this way helps it contrast the Reeves Batman. It helps Brave and the Bold stand out more. Hopefully giving us good batdad who has a different vibe to the emo, gritty, highligther wearing solo Batman from the Reeves movie.

I'm expecting Gunn's movie to be tonally different, so the experience/mood for the viewers is different from what we felt with The Batman.

Two young Batmen played by two different director starring two different actors is literally forcing your market to compare and choose.


DC actively undermining it's own movies.

Plus we are finally getting the Batfamily. Huge kudos Gunn.

[CPSparkles]

I remember Damian showing Tim respect after he "died."

Yeah that was from TT I think. They have no beef nor is there any reason for there to be any tension between the two in the comics aside from regular brotherly rivalry. Or typical younger/older sibling annoyances.

They both respect each other. Tim is over Damian pushing him [they were even when Damian saved his life]and cutting his line and Damian is over Tim physically attacking him and distrusting him.

They are allies and Family. I don't think the two get along nor should they. Mutual respect is fine. I'd like to have them interact more though just because currently there is so baseline or hint regarding what their relationship is like.

The comics neglected to address Tim's feelings during the RR era. There was never any closure add to that Tim's back and forth with Robin and writers having other telling him to move on from Robin gives the impression that Tim is still hurting.

There's a great Tim story that can come from that if writers leaned into it.

[Frontier]

Yeah that was from TT I think. They have no beef nor is there any reason for there to be any tension between the two in the comics aside from regular brotherly rivalry. Or typical younger/older sibling annoyances.

They both respect each other. Tim is over Damian pushing him [they were even when Damian saved his life]and cutting his line and Damian is over Tim physically attacking him and distrusting him.

They are allies and Family. I don't think the two get along nor should they. Mutual respect is fine. I'd like to have them interact more though just because currently there is so baseline or hint regarding what their relationship is like.

The comics neglected to address Tim's feelings during the RR era. There was never any closure add to that Tim's back and forth with Robin and writers having other telling him to move on from Robin gives the impression that Tim is still hurting.

There's a great Tim story that can come from that if writers leaned into it.

I think the problem is a lot of the Batfamily relationships of that era were second hand and not really focused on/developed because characters were more often than not sequester in their own books away from each other.

[Coop]

I hope they cast an actual kid to play Damian. There's a chance to make a version of the character that really lands with audiences. Damian could be bigger than Hit Girl especially if the movie is good and they nail his dialog and make him sound haughty and bratty instead of unbearable. Hopefully they draw heavily on Morrison's work with him in Batman and Robin and Batman Inc. In my eyes that remains peak Damian.

[Frontier]

I hope they cast an actual kid to play Damian. There's a chance to make a version of the character that really lands with audiences. Damian could be bigger than Hit Girl especially if the movie is good and they nail his dialog and make him sound haughty and bratty instead of unbearable. Hopefully they draw heavily on Morrison's work with him in Batman and Robin and Batman Inc. In my eyes that remains peak Damian.

I'm really curious to see how young they cast for, especially knowing how quickly he'll age.

[CPSparkles]

I hope they cast an actual kid to play Damian. There's a chance to make a version of the character that really lands with audiences. Damian could be bigger than Hit Girl especially if the movie is good and they nail his dialog and make him sound haughty and bratty instead of unbearable. Hopefully they draw heavily on Morrison's work with him in Batman and Robin and Batman Inc. In my eyes that remains peak Damian.

My sentiments exactly.

Haughty, bratty yet funny is necessary. The way he talks [I feel like Damian would have an accent] and even the vocabulary in his dialogue is part of what sets his apart. He has a very formal way of speaking and I hope that's reflected in the adaptation.

The role needs acting chops to make a bratty kid charming.

It won't be an easy casting.

I've seen some Damian fans online offended by the way Gunn described him which confuses me.

Damian at this stage was a Son of a Bitch. He was an assassin and a murderer.
I don't want him purified or watered down.

[CPSparkles]

I was wondering why the upcoming batman and Robin movie is called The brave and The Bold.

What if they are planning on emulating the cartoon series?

A series of movies that partners batman with members of the Batfamily?

The brave and the bold in this case being the Brave and the bold heroes that were inspired by Batman.

The Batfamily?

That's what I would do. Use it as a way to introduce the Bat family.

I think the name choice is more likely to distance this movie from the earlier Batman and Robin movie starring Clooney and O'Donnell.

[CPSparkles]

Doesn't help that talking about "what Robin must represent" is often just insulting the other Robins and saying that Tim is simply better than them. Yeah, sure, that's going to make people like Tim...

It's just so frustrating, it feels like DC doesn't want to commit to Damian as Robin because they feel nostalgia for Tim as Robin, but as the last few years have shown this nostalgia for Tim as Robin doesn't mean they have an actual plan for what he's supposed to do now that he's Robin again and Damian is always kept far away from Gotham and the batfam.

This is true. In an interview discussing Tim's back up in the Batman title. The writer talks about his love for the character and feels that Tim is best as a sidekick to Batman. Believes the characters works best in that role.

Compliment and an insult me thinks. implies Tim only works as support.
I enjoyed Tim most in YJ. The 90's Robin series wasn't to my taste. Tim's characterisation and the way his relationship with Dick Grayson was conveyed put he off. Dick was mostly there to tell us/show us how good Tim was and it just kept escalating eventually morphing Tim into a version that now had a lot of the traits and elements previously were associated with Dick Grayson.

Tim had a successful Robin series. He had a RR solo series. He obviously has proven that he can work not just as support so the writer's is straight up putting nostalgia above character evolution.