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  1. #46
    Formerly Assassin Spider Huntsman Spider's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Which adds to the annoyance...a retcon on top of a retcon. They need to stop changing the past and focus on going forward.
    Fair point there.
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  2. #47
    Extraordinary Member Mantis-Ray's Avatar
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    I do find it interesting that the wider reasons for why Project Rebirth was commissioned varies from reason to reason, but Steve being picked by Erskine for his good heart at least remains consistent.

    Which makes sense the project was funded by the government to make super soldiers but Erskine the actual head scientist who made the whole thing possible obviously has different motives and doesn't agree with American imperialism

    Like I recently read Captain America Truth and I think the scientist guy there was Erskine and you can tell he doesn't jive with the military generals horrible racism

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis-Ray View Post
    I do find it interesting that the wider reasons for why Project Rebirth was commissioned varies from reason to reason, but Steve being picked by Erskine for his good heart at least remains consistent.

    Which makes sense the project was funded by the government to make super soldiers but Erskine the actual head scientist who made the whole thing possible obviously has different motives and doesn't agree with American imperialism

    Like I recently read Captain America Truth and I think the scientist guy there was Erskine and you can tell he doesn't jive with the military generals horrible racism
    Yeah, I think it was supposed to be Erskine operating under an alias, "Reinstein" or something like that, though I'd have to read that recent rerelease of Captain America: Truth (Red, White, and Black) to see for certain. That said, you do raise a good point that regardless of the motives behind Project Rebirth across the retellings and revisions of Captain America's origin, they do at least keep it consistent that Erskine was looking more for a good man than a good soldier, and even the MCU got that much right, albeit with the additional caveat that whatever physical enhancements the serum could grant would also amplify its recipient's innermost character, for better or worse.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, I think it was supposed to be Erskine operating under an alias, "Reinstein" or something like that, though I'd have to read that recent rerelease of Captain America: Truth (Red, White, and Black) to see for certain. That said, you do raise a good point that regardless of the motives behind Project Rebirth across the retellings and revisions of Captain America's origin, they do at least keep it consistent that Erskine was looking more for a good man than a good soldier, and even the MCU got that much right, albeit with the additional caveat that whatever physical enhancements the serum could grant would also amplify its recipient's innermost character, for better or worse.
    From Marvel Comics Database about "Reinstein"...https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Wilfr...el_(Earth-616)

    Nagel is often confused with his predecessor Dr. Abraham Erskine who originally developed the "Project: Rebirth" program as they shared a close code name:

    "Dr. Joseph Reinstein" was Erskine's codename.
    "Dr. Josef Reinstein" was Dr. Wilfred Nagel's codename.
    All I wanted was to be unconditionally loved while never having to work on my flaws. Is that so much to ask?

  5. #50
    Extraordinary Member Mantis-Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huntsman Spider View Post
    Yeah, I think it was supposed to be Erskine operating under an alias, "Reinstein" or something like that, though I'd have to read that recent rerelease of Captain America: Truth (Red, White, and Black) to see for certain. That said, you do raise a good point that regardless of the motives behind Project Rebirth across the retellings and revisions of Captain America's origin, they do at least keep it consistent that Erskine was looking more for a good man than a good soldier, and even the MCU got that much right, albeit with the additional caveat that whatever physical enhancements the serum could grant would also amplify its recipient's innermost character, for better or worse.
    Whats really sad is that Erskine really did not have creative control as he did with Steve's operation, as the military murders hundreds of black men in the experiments that would end in only Bradley surviving.

    Also wait I just realized the Circle's contribution to Project Rebirth. It was an investment, they prolly provided some money and tech most to help get the project going, expecting a bunch of supersoldiers and hopingto sntach one of them.

    But Erskine died and only Steve was left, and the Circle probably wants to collect on their investment 80 years in advance. Hell its probably why they invested in Bucky, enjoying the irony of Steve's best friend being his replacement.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis-Ray View Post
    Whats really sad is that Erskine really did not have creative control as he did with Steve's operation, as the military murders hundreds of black men in the experiments that would end in only Bradley surviving.

    Also wait I just realized the Circle's contribution to Project Rebirth. It was an investment, they prolly provided some money and tech most to help get the project going, expecting a bunch of supersoldiers and hopingto sntach one of them.

    But Erskine died and only Steve was left, and the Circle probably wants to collect on their investment 80 years in advance. Hell its probably why they invested in Bucky, enjoying the irony of Steve's best friend being his replacement.
    Erskine was dead. That did not change in Truth. It was another scientist named Nagel who carried on with Project Rebirth with the black soldiers.
    All I wanted was to be unconditionally loved while never having to work on my flaws. Is that so much to ask?

  7. #52
    Extraordinary Member Mantis-Ray's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Erskine was dead. That did not change in Truth. It was another scientist named Nagel who carried on with Project Rebirth with the black soldiers.
    Oh right I forgot he died by that point.

    I got the timeline whiffed, I keep forgetting the exact point Truth takes place in, my bad.

  8. #53
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    Isn't it typically General Philips who selected Steve for the project? Erskine doing so is only in the movies, I think.

    Also, the scientist who experimented on Isaiah is another guy using the same alias. The "Truth" mini was confusing, even more so given later writers construing Isaiah as being the OG super-soldier.

  9. #54
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    Looks like Aaron's Punisher(much better received than his Avengers run) is gonna have Frank who's leader of the hand, going to be confronted by a select few group of heroes including Steve.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    From Marvel Comics Database about "Reinstein"...https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Wilfr...el_(Earth-616)
    Thanks for the correction and clarification there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mantis-Ray View Post
    Whats really sad is that Erskine really did not have creative control as he did with Steve's operation, as the military murders hundreds of black men in the experiments that would end in only Bradley surviving.

    Also wait I just realized the Circle's contribution to Project Rebirth. It was an investment, they prolly provided some money and tech most to help get the project going, expecting a bunch of supersoldiers and hopingto sntach one of them.

    But Erskine died and only Steve was left, and the Circle probably wants to collect on their investment 80 years in advance. Hell its probably why they invested in Bucky, enjoying the irony of Steve's best friend being his replacement.
    Yeah, that sounds about right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rzerox21xx View Post
    Looks like Aaron's Punisher(much better received than his Avengers run) is gonna have Frank who's leader of the hand, going to be confronted by a select few group of heroes including Steve.
    Say what you will about Jason Aaron's Punisher, at least it doesn't take so many issues to get to the point or meander on tangents that don't go anywhere in the end. I mean, if the whole point of his Avengers was a battle across time, space, and reality against Mephisto and his pawns, what was the point of teasing a global arms race for assembling superpowered national defense forces to compensate for the Avengers more formally separating themselves from the U.S. government?
    The spider is always on the hunt.

  11. #56
    Fantastic Member Amacent's Avatar
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    FmwyE8QXgAE15LI.jpg

    Love this Cap by Diver Shin.

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amacent View Post
    Looks pretty nice .

  13. #58
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    Just a reminder of the time Steve wore a Stark designed armor....

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Capta...7s_Exoskeleton

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  14. #59

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Just a reminder of the time Steve wore a Stark designed armor....

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Capta...7s_Exoskeleton

    Lol. I'm hoping Stark comes up with a better design this time.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris0013 View Post
    Just a reminder of the time Steve wore a Stark designed armor....

    https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Capta...7s_Exoskeleton

    Quote Originally Posted by the illustrious mr. kenway View Post
    Lol. I'm hoping Stark comes up with a better design this time.
    Same, though I did slightly appreciate it making a comeback after the second and more recent time Steve Rogers lost the Super-Soldier Serum. Alas, the circumstances . . . not the best, considering he was wearing it again to duel Iron Man to the death at the end of Time Runs Out.
    The spider is always on the hunt.

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