Rogue (Anna Marie LeBeau) Appreciation 2023: Sassy Southern Brawler

[whitecrown]

I can see Rogue being someone who has more male than female friends though. I think Claremont intentionally wrote her like that during his first run and although she's definitely friends with Ororo (especially), Rachel, Kitty and Betsy, she seems to naturally be closer to the likes of Bobby, Sam or even Logan.

An interesting angle to that, which I admit is more my head-canon, is due to the nature of her powers: she always admitted to being jealous of Alison because she could have everything Rogue couldn't, and I think you could easily extend that to all the other women she was a teammate to. Obviously she's grown a lot over the years and got control of her powers as well, but I can still see Rogue as getting along better with X-Men rather than X-Women.

The thing about Bobby and Sam is that both of those were post-Claremont friendships so I wouldn't count that as Claremont writing her to get along more with the guys. In Claremont's run, I don't remember her ever being super close to Piotr, Alex, or even Kurt. A lot of the Kurt/Rogue stuff only came after they were confirmed as siblings. Claremont spent more time with these two together as friends/siblings in X-Men Forever than he ever did in his first X-Men run. Then her other male teammate was Longshot but that relationship was a romantic one.

I can see why she would be perceived as a tomboy and thus one of the guys, but I think as Claremont originally wrote her, she herself didn't lean more towards the male X-Men over the female X-Men. If she leaned more towards a certain type of X-Men, it was usually the ones who had slightly darker outlooks on life like Wolverine, Rachel, Magneto, and Storm after her mohawk rather than the more innocent ones like Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Kitty. Like the time when she and Rachel are flying by and see muggers attacking someone. They rescue the guy only to learn that he was being attacked because he was spraying anti-mutant rhetoric and both Rogue and Rachel admitted that had they known, they wouldn't have bothered to save him.

Another indication that she didn't necessarily feel more at home with the guys than the girls is the fact that on the Brotherhood, I don't recall her ever being close to Pyro or Avalanche or even Blob after he joined. They were closer to her age than Mystique or Destiny would be and one might assume she'd want to hang out with people who aren't her parents, but she never gravitates towards them either.

[rhaenylis]

The thing about Bobby and Sam is that both of those were post-Claremont friendships so I wouldn't count that as Claremont writing her to get along more with the guys. In Claremont's run, I don't remember her ever being super close to Piotr, Alex, or even Kurt. A lot of the Kurt/Rogue stuff only came after they were confirmed as siblings. Claremont spent more time with these two together as friends/siblings in X-Men Forever than he ever did in his first X-Men run. Then her other male teammate was Longshot but that relationship was a romantic one.

I can see why she would be perceived as a tomboy and thus one of the guys, but I think as Claremont originally wrote her, she herself didn't lean more towards the male X-Men over the female X-Men. If she leaned more towards a certain type of X-Men, it was usually the ones who had slightly darker outlooks on life like Wolverine, Rachel, Magneto, and Storm after her mohawk rather than the more innocent ones like Colossus, Nightcrawler, and Kitty. Like the time when she and Rachel are flying by and see muggers attacking someone. They rescue the guy only to learn that he was being attacked because he was spraying anti-mutant rhetoric and both Rogue and Rachel admitted that had they known, they wouldn't have bothered to save him.

Another indication that she didn't necessarily feel more at home with the guys than the girls is the fact that on the Brotherhood, I don't recall her ever being close to Pyro or Avalanche or even Blob after he joined. They were closer to her age than Mystique or Destiny would be and one might assume she'd want to hang out with people who aren't her parents, but she never gravitates towards them either.

I think it was Claremont who created Rogue and Sam's friendship in X-Treme (with a flashback where they bond shortly after Rogue joins the team)

Speaking of Rogue's friendships I wish Carey wasn't the only one who remembered that Rogue and Northstar are good friends (I love this annual in Carey's run where she helps SHIELD freeing him from the Hand's control and they're just so happy to see each other again (plus JP trying to help her patching things up with Mystique)
I also hated that there were zero interactions between Rogue and Shiro in X-Men (at least Remender wrote some wonderful Roguefire moments in his run)

[juan678]

[whitecrown]

I think it was Claremont who created Rogue and Sam's friendship in X-Treme (with a flashback where they bond shortly after Rogue joins the team)

Speaking of Rogue's friendships I wish Carey wasn't the only one who remembered that Rogue and Northstar are good friends (I love this annual in Carey's run where she helps SHIELD freeing him from the Hand's control and they're just so happy to see each other again (plus JP trying to help her patching things up with Mystique)
I also hated that there were zero interactions between Rogue and Shiro in X-Men (at least Remender wrote some wonderful Roguefire moments in his run)

Ooh, I forgot about Sam showing up at the end of X-Treme X-Men. My thoughts went straight to the Chris Bachalo run on X-Men especially because Sam and Bobby were both mentioned and their friendship really started out of there. I'll give Claremont props for starting that friendship then especially since they were both southerners to boot.

I remember reading a headcanon that one of the times that Rogue absorbed Northstar's powers, I think in the X-Men/Alpha Flight crossover, that she would have been aware of his sexuality at a time when he was still closeted.

Out of all the X-Men, Rogue is probably the one who Shiro is closest too. They were both in Uncanny Avengers and then in the main X-Men title. Then there was the time she permanently absorbed Sunfire's powers as well.

[whitecrown]

Love that! They look great together as usual.

[anyajenkins]

Very cute!

Did Claremont really say that Rogue and Gambit weren't meant to last? Because I don't see what he had to do with them since they weren't even paired together until after he left the X-Books. And Claremont's plan for Gambit was very different with Gambit being a heroic avatar of the true mastermind behind Mr. Sinister who would try and corrupt de-aged Storm and Kitty into leaving the X-Men so that the X-Men's future generation of leaders would hurt the team. And then Gambit and Kitty would have a romance that could potentially sway him to actually become a hero.

Unless Claremont meant Rogue and Gambit weren't meant to last when he was writing them in X-Treme X-Men.

There was an article floating around, with an interview with claremont, that was written shortly after claremont left the books. He talked about a lot of his story ideas and he mentioned gambit as a projection of the slow aging kid, Nathan, like sinister was. He also talked about how Nathan had been watching cyclops and the X-men and noticed Rogue. He knew rogue wouldn’t talk to him, because he looked like a kid. So when he sent his projection, Gambit to infiltrate the X-men, he sent him to talk to rogue as well. There was going to be some kind of tension/conflict between gambit and Nathan and he didn’t really say how it would be resolved (sounded like he was going to die, sort of, since he wasn’t ‘real’ to begin with.) He never mentioned kitty in gambit’s storyline/ origin.

Like a few years ago, he mentioned in another interview that people always think of gambit and rogue, but it was really supposed to be gambit and kitty. (I think he also said at a different point in the same interview, that Rachel was the endgame for kitty, lol. Everyone loves kitty!) And in another interview (I think from around the time of the last gambit mini) he mentioned that ‘original plan’ again, but making gambit sound much worse. Saying that he was trying to corrupt young Storm into leaving the X-men and was going to seduce and betray kitty, who was the future of the X-men (and was very underage at that time.) it was like dude, just stop…So yeah, seriously starting to wondering if heÂ’s having memory problems.)

[whitecrown]

Very cute!


There was an article floating around, with an interview with claremont, that was written shortly after claremont left the books. He talked about a lot of his story ideas and he mentioned gambit as a projection of the slow aging kid, Nathan, like sinister was. He also talked about how Nathan had been watching cyclops and the X-men and noticed Rogue. He knew rogue wouldn’t talk to him, because he looked like a kid. So when he sent his projection, Gambit to infiltrate the X-men, he sent him to talk to rogue as well. There was going to be some kind of tension/conflict between gambit and Nathan and he didn’t really say how it would be resolved (sounded like he was going to die, sort of, since he wasn’t ‘real’ to begin with.) He never mentioned kitty in gambit’s storyline/ origin.

Like a few years ago, he mentioned in another interview that people always think of gambit and rogue, but it was really supposed to be gambit and kitty. (I think he also said at a different point in the same interview, that Rachel was the endgame for kitty, lol. Everyone loves kitty!) And in another interview (I think from around the time of the last gambit mini) he mentioned that ‘original plan’ again, but making gambit sound much worse. Saying that he was trying to corrupt young Storm into leaving the X-men and was going to seduce and betray kitty, who was the future of the X-men (and was very underage at that time.) it was like dude, just stop…So yeah, seriously starting to wondering if heÂ’s having memory problems.)

I've read the exact same thing where he mentioned that young Nathan had a crush on Rogue but because he was stuck in the body of a child, he couldn't do anything about it. So that's another reason Nathan/Sinister created Gambit, an aged up clone body of himself, and sent him into the X-Men because Rogue was also one of his motivations. I don't know how Claremont went from that to claiming Kitty was always Gambit's endgame and they'd have been the couple, not Rogue/Gambit. I think he's got the George Lucas problem of claiming that certain ideas were ones he always had and never changed when that clearly isn't the case. Either he was lying about Rogue/Gambit back then because they were already a couple in the comics and he was sticking to that or he changed his mind later on and felt that a villainous Gambit would target Kitty instead since he saw Kitty as leadership material. Which is also strange because the Revolution period had both Rogue and Gambit leading X-Men teams.

Rachel and Kitty being endgame was nonsense as well since despite Claremont claiming this was his intention from Rachel's debut, they weren't even that close back in UXM. Even in Excalibur, Kitty spent more time getting jealous that Alistaire Stewart liked Rachel who Kitty had a crush on. It wasn't until the mid-2000s when Claremont was back on UXM that suddenly Kitty and Rachel were best friends and roommates and this was when Rachel had underwent a personality change. Claremont's original plan was always that Kitty and Illyana were soulmates. Nowadays he claims that Illyana is pure evil so I guess he soured on her at some point as well and basically replaced her with Rachel...when he's not trying to pair Gambit with Kitty that is.

The only thing I can think of is that Rogue/Gambit is a pairing he soured on as well for some strange reason.

[ChronoRogue]

Woah, missed a lot of convo this past week, I'll try to respond to it when I have more free time T.T but happy to see all the Rogue discussion!

[Project Initiative Cascada]

Hot take but I’ll always resent the Outback era for Rogue’s treatment all over. At that point Rogue had proven her heroic loyalty to the X-Men multiple times before including almost dying saving Mariko and Logan, saving Colossus’ life and switching places when he was in that vegetative frozen state caused by Pyro in UXM #180, her defeating Nimrod and of course being a part of the sacrifice in Fall of the Mutants. However, in the Outback era she was treated like she still needed to redeem herself as a hero despite having the most seniority on the team. The tension with Ali was warranted with their past but I feel like everyone else on the team (Besides Longshot) paid her dust. Most especially nobody sympathizing with her struggle with the SA on Genosha and the Carol personality takeover. Didn’t Storm acknowledge her earning her place on the team in UXM #179?

IMG_7040.jpg

Also I felt Claremont just regressed her development at that time writing her as bratty and immature with everyone. Not to mention I feel like nearly every issue she was just flying into things without thinking and getting knocked out to prop up the new characters on the team to look more competent. (Most especially Betsy who was Claremont’s pet character at the time.)

[Agent Z]

I found this bit of information on Twitter

If Morrison had had their way, Emma Frost never would have been an A-lister, Storm would have been the one to have the affair with Cyclops, and Rogue would have been killed and replaced with a goth teenager.

Editorial interference can be a good thing.

Is this true? This is the first I've heard of this.

[Micabe]

Twitter isn't renowned for being a fountain of truth so, it's highly unlikely.

[rhaenylis]

Hot take but I’ll always resent the Outback era for Rogue’s treatment all over. At that point Rogue had proven her heroic loyalty to the X-Men multiple times before including almost dying saving Mariko and Logan, saving Colossus’ life and switching places when he was in that vegetative frozen state caused by Pyro in UXM #180, her defeating Nimrod and of course being a part of the sacrifice in Fall of the Mutants. However, in the Outback era she was treated like she still needed to redeem herself as a hero despite having the most seniority on the team. The tension with Ali was warranted with their past but I feel like everyone else on the team (Besides Longshot) paid her dust. Most especially nobody sympathizing with her struggle with the SA on Genosha and the Carol personality takeover. Didn’t Storm acknowledge her earning her place on the team in UXM #179?

IMG_7040.jpg

Also I felt Claremont just regressed her development at that time writing her as bratty and immature with everyone. Not to mention I feel like nearly every issue she was just flying into things without thinking and getting knocked out to prop up the new characters on the team to look more competent. (Most especially Betsy who was Claremont’s pet character at the time.)

I think the same. Longshot, Colossus and Gateway were the only ones who were nice to Rogue. Really only Ali's behavior seemed justified, and she was the only one who was affected when Rogue sacrificed herself. And I hate this issue where the girls are basically victim blaming Rogue when they find out about Genosha

[seccruz]

I found this bit of information on Twitter



Is this true? This is the first I've heard of this.

It's true. Morrison wanted a Rogue closer to Evolution. More goth less Southern bc he felt the accent was too much.

[Ilargi]

I found this bit of information on Twitter



Is this true? This is the first I've heard of this.

Yeaah! I remember reading about it last year. And something about turning her into a ghost or something.... it was a bullet that we dodged haha ha.

I'm going to see if I can find the info.

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-rogue-gran...sonality%20was.

Thank good! That never happened !

[sbo]

Yeaah! I remember reading about it last year. And something about turning her into a ghost or something.... it was a bullet that we dodged haha ha.

I'm going to see if I can find the info.

https://www.cbr.com/x-men-rogue-gran...sonality%20was.

Thank good! That never happened !

Seriously!
Had that happened I probably would've dropped X-men for good.