Rogue (Anna Marie LeBeau) Appreciation 2023: Sassy Southern Brawler

[whitecrown]

Oop, sounds like the Hickman era tbh. Lots of "woulda, coulda, shoulda" in regards to Rogue's usage.

Singer's Fox-Men will never be the real X-Men to me for this reason, not only do they lambast of the superhero and fantasy aspects of the franchise like it's a embarrassing secret; but they do so many characters a disservice. Oh well, another reason not to see DP3 then if it's just gonna be the same old, same old.

As for Nocenti's Rogue, I'm also giving it a pass since she's so young. Rogue was really obnoxious at times during the 80s, usually to Dazzler due to her insecurities, but in general as well.

Ugh, another reason to hate Hickman and what he did to the X-Men.

The X-Men in DP3 are supposed to be 90s inspired with the costumes which means this could be our only chance to see Anna Paquin as 90s Rogue with her feisty personality. I've read that Anna has said she always wanted to portray Rogue the way she was in the comics which is promising. If Gambit is still in, I'm hoping that means they wouldn't include him without Rogue and that we'll still see her, especially if it leads to a Secret Wars appearance with Captain Marvel.

I think people are forgetting that even though the X-Men came to accept Rogue in the team, that didn't mean she was always on good terms with them. Those panels you posted are just some of several examples.

[Sisterhood Of Mutants]

Thank God for Love Unlimited, because otherwise we’d be back to a bit of a content drought tbh.

Like I suspected, she was absent from Mystique/Destiny’s Voices story. The X-Men and Brotherhood both get cameos… but not even an acknowledgment of their daughter? Like… not even a photo of her on the wall? (Then again, I found them both OOC and thought it was one of the weaker stories in the book, so, oh, well.) I’m not hoping for her being acknowledged in X-Men Blue, either, unless it’s more of Spurrier’s weird pseudo-incest from Kurt lol.

I’m trying not to catastrophize on her being so underused in UA #1 - mostly, I’m just keeping my expectations low until that whole office shakes up and new editorial steps in lol. But this book is edited under Brevoort, so if she remains wallpaper a la Excalibur and X-Men 2018, the blame is fully on Duggan now.

(As long as it’s Monet and Kwannon who become the stealth leads this time, I’ll actually still be interested in the book.)

As for Nocenti's Rogue, I'm also giving it a pass since she's so young. Rogue was really obnoxious at times during the 80s, usually to Dazzler due to her insecurities, but in general as well.

Yes! I loved Rogue’s bratty phase back in her early team days and the Outback. People always forget she was only eighteen when she defected from the Brotherhood.

Hell, even in the early ‘90s, she’s still occasionally pulling dumb shit like partying half-naked at a college bar to cope with absorbing Gambit’s memories, while Bobby chases after her. (And she’s still no older than twenty-one at this point; she mentions that she’s the same age as the college kids.) She’s slightly more mature, but still impulsive and brash. It’s what makes her so fun.

The days Dazzler was so much more than just a disco artist and gay-icon. Those days of the Outback I really loved Dazz a lot. I even loved punk Dazzler. Shame they made her back to be nothing more than a lightshow at parties.

I agree that Ali’s characterization has kind of been all over the place in recent years, but I loved X-Terminators. I’d love to see more content along those lines for her; something really fun, yet hardcore. It felt right.

[rhaenylis]

Storm #4 gave us Rogue/Mystique content

[ChronoRogue]

Ugh, another reason to hate Hickman and what he did to the X-Men.

The X-Men in DP3 are supposed to be 90s inspired with the costumes which means this could be our only chance to see Anna Paquin as 90s Rogue with her feisty personality. I've read that Anna has said she always wanted to portray Rogue the way she was in the comics which is promising. If Gambit is still in, I'm hoping that means they wouldn't include him without Rogue and that we'll still see her, especially if it leads to a Secret Wars appearance with Captain Marvel.

I think people are forgetting that even though the X-Men came to accept Rogue in the team, that didn't mean she was always on good terms with them. Those panels you posted are just some of several examples.

Yea, I remember Paquin saying she wanted to play a Rogue closer to her comic counterpart. Unfortunately that was never a priority for the directors, sadly. At least this makes it very likely Disney will explore this aspect of Rogue, since casual audiences are not familiar with powerhouse or villain Rogue. If the superhero movie franchise doesn't kill itself by the time we get there... the over saturation and bad to mid quality of the recent movies has really hurt people's trust in the genre.

Yep Rogue was still occasionally treated like an outsider at times up until the 90s. Ororo showed her trust by letting Rogue borrow her powers, but she and Betsy had no tolerance for Rogue's outbursts regarding hating having to share her body with the mental ghost of Carol. They knew it wasn't really Carol either, just the ghost of her memories, so the lack of sympathy from this for a teenager raised by terrorists was a bit a much at times. (though to be fair, Rogue did try to kill her)

Low-key Betsy felt like she preferred the Carol persona to Rogue. Going out on coffee dates with her even!


Howard writing them as BFFs in Excalibur felt so weird because of this, Claremont wrote them as frenemies or a younger sister annoying her older sister most of the time.



Though their relationship did seem to improve from the 90s onwards, as Rogue matured. Rogue also was the one to avenge Betsy after Vargas killed her I suppose.

I’m trying not to catastrophize on her being so underused in UA #1 - mostly, I’m just keeping my expectations low until that whole office shakes up and new editorial steps in lol. But this book is edited under Brevoort, so if she remains wallpaper a la Excalibur and X-Men 2018, the blame is fully on Duggan now.

(As long as it’s Monet and Kwannon who become the stealth leads this time, I’ll actually still be interested in the book.)

She's been in a lot of cover art, so I'm hopeful she'll get to play a significant part. even if covers do lie

Yes! I loved Rogue’s bratty phase back in her early team days and the Outback. People always forget she was only eighteen when she defected from the Brotherhood.

Hell, even in the early ‘90s, she’s still occasionally pulling dumb shit like partying half-naked at a college bar to cope with absorbing Gambit’s memories, while Bobby chases after her. (And she’s still no older than twenty-one at this point; she mentions that she’s the same age as the college kids.) She’s slightly more mature, but still impulsive and brash. It’s what makes her so fun.

Yea, Rogue had a messy and impulsive side to her. Dazzler really brought out the green eyed monster in her. I'm sad they've basically been separated since the 80s and rarely interacted since, it'd be interesting seeing how Alison views her now that she's all domestic and on the Avengers.

Though Rogue does still has shades of impulsivity especially when she gets upset or passionate about something. It makes her a fun character.

Storm #4 gave us Rogue/Mystique content

Thanks for the heads up! Appreciate Nocenti giving us some Rogue moments.

[mikeb]

I've given this some thought, and I think Betsy's bad attitude toward Rogue had nothing to do Carol. Before she joined the X-Men, Betsy never ever met Carol. In my opinion Betsy's poor attitude was simply Class warfare. Think about it: Betsy was an English Aristocrat; Rogue was a poor youthful runaway taken in by a Criminal mastermind and used to commit crimes. (If this sounds familiar, this was part of the plotline of the Chares Dicken's novel Oliver Twist.) To Betsy, to use some English slang, Rogue was a "Ruffian" and "Hooligan". (In the first issue of the first Uncanny Avengers run, Wanda calls Rogue "Trailer Trash".)

[Calintz]

I've given this some thought, and I think Betsy's bad attitude toward Rogue had nothing to do Carol. Before she joined the X-Men, Betsy never ever met Carol. In my opinion Betsy's poor attitude was simply Class warfare. Think about it: Betsy was an English Aristocrat; Rogue was a poor youthful runaway taken in by a Criminal mastermind and used to commit crimes. (If this sounds familiar, this was part of the plotline of the Chares Dicken's novel Oliver Twist.) To Betsy, to use some English slang, Rogue was a "Ruffian" and "Hooligan". (In the first issue of the first Uncanny Avengers run, Wanda calls Rogue "Trailer Trash".)

You know I do remember that as well. They bickered a lot in the Outback days. I've always wondered why Rogue didn't throw some of that shade back at them for that. Then I realized that Rogue became a bigger person thru the years and didn't stay in the past with that stuff. Now a days, she is that Ride or Die chick that got your back when things go down.

[whitecrown]

Yea, I remember Paquin saying she wanted to play a Rogue closer to her comic counterpart. Unfortunately that was never a priority for the directors, sadly. At least this makes it very likely Disney will explore this aspect of Rogue, since casual audiences are not familiar with powerhouse or villain Rogue. If the superhero movie franchise doesn't kill itself by the time we get there... the over saturation and bad to mid quality of the recent movies has really hurt people's trust in the genre.

Yep Rogue was still occasionally treated like an outsider at times up until the 90s. Ororo showed her trust by letting Rogue borrow her powers, but she and Betsy had no tolerance for Rogue's outbursts regarding hating having to share her body with the mental ghost of Carol. They knew it wasn't really Carol either, just the ghost of her memories, so the lack of sympathy from this for a teenager raised by terrorists was a bit a much at times. (though to be fair, Rogue did try to kill her)

Low-key Betsy felt like she preferred the Carol persona to Rogue. Going out on coffee dates with her even!


Howard writing them as BFFs in Excalibur felt so weird because of this, Claremont wrote them as frenemies or a younger sister annoying her older sister most of the time.



Though their relationship did seem to improve from the 90s onwards, as Rogue matured. Rogue also was the one to avenge Betsy after Vargas killed her I suppose.

That's a worry of mine as well that by the time the X-Men even appear in the movies, superhero movies will be mostly over. Especially now with all the strikes and delays which means it'll take even longer for the X-Men to show up.

I think there are a few reasons why Ororo and Betsy were not always very sympathetic towards Rogue besides the obvious. For one, Ororo and Carol had developed a friendship during Carol's time at the X-Mansion. The Carol in Rogue's head was not technically the same Carol that Ororo knew, but for her, she'd see them the same way and wouldn't have a lot of sympathy towards Rogue. Keep in mind that out of all the X-Men, it was Ororo who was most upset about Rogue joining the team and she nearly quit in protest. That always surprised me because Logan was the one who had a long history with Carol and viewed her as one of his closest friends (there's an issue where I think he only has two pictures on his desk, and one of them is Carol). I guess it helped that Logan was away in Japan and while he didn't trust Rogue when she arrived for his wedding, she quickly won his friendship when she was willing to sacrifice herself to save Mariko.

For Betsy, there's the fact that as a telepath, she'd be aware of Carol's persona and thoughts and feelings and thus treat her like her own separate person. She'd have sympathy for her being trapped in someone else's body in a way the others wouldn't because her telepathy would make her constantly aware of Carol's mind, even if Betsy and Carol had no prior history. Then again, they were both amongst Claremont's favorites and between Carol working as a government agent and Betsy as a STRIKE agent, pilot, and model, I can see Claremont revealing that they had worked together in the past. The only thing that confuses me somewhat is that when Rogue first joined the X-Men, Xavier said that the Kree DNA she had absorbed from Carol made her mind impenetrable to his telepathy and that's one reason why he could never help her. Yet, if her mind is so immune to psychic detection, how is it that Xavier could still share thoughts with her and the same is true for Betsy? Betsy is always keeping the X-Men mind-linked and using telepathy to contact them so did Rogue's psychic immunity just weaken over times or did Rogue find a way to allow telepaths access into her head from practice?

As said in other posts, I can see why Betsy would have more in common with Carol, even if they haven't ever met in person. Another factor is age. Carol and Betsy were both in their late 20s/early 30s, I believe, whereas Rogue was a teen. Between age, maturity, class, breeding, and also their previous status as government agents, it makes sense as to why Carol and Betsy would bond in a way that Betsy and Rogue never did in the 80s era. Even in the 90s, I don't remember Rogue and Betsy ever becoming best friends (Betsy was mostly aloof after the ninja swap stuff besides with Logan. Then Warren became her boyfriend and she and Jean started working together psychically) whereas Rogue's relationships mostly focused on Remy and Bobby. I think they were certainly friends then but never as close as they're made out to be now. It reminds me of how in the Fraction era, there was a big deal about Alison and Betsy being close friends because of their Outback X-Men days, but if you look at the Outback era, Betsy never really was friends with Alison either. She may not have had issues with her as she did with Rogue, but I don't remember them ever being close or hanging out. Alison's time was mostly spent in the love triangle with Longshot and Rogue and then she had a budding friendship with Alex.

[juan678]

https://twitter.com/ragegearstudios/...51066631602317

[whitecrown]

I love how Rogue's glance is directed at Longshot there.

[Master of Sound]

https://twitter.com/ragegearstudios/...51066631602317

Longshot looks like Linda Evens, aka Cristel of Dynasty whahaha

[whitecrown]

Discussing the Rogue/Storm dynamic some more and how much Storm really accepted her, I think another indication is that in Lifedeath II, when Storm is having visions of the X-Men, she doesn't include Rogue or Rachel as part of the team. The X-Men presented to her seem less the current X-Men as much as the ones she considers to be part of her family and thus closest to her heart and soul. Rachel's exclusion would make sense since Storm didn't know her very much at this point, especially since she left the team shortly after Rachel came into play. But Rogue had been around longer so her lack of inclusion here seems quite telling and suggests that while Storm may have accepted Rogue as a fellow X-Man and even began to trust her, she still hadn't accepted her as a family member.

[seccruz]

https://twitter.com/ragegearstudios/...51066631602317

Damn, this looks amazing! way to improve on the original!!!

[Devaishwarya]

Sigh....Rogue in Black and Green will always my "Iconic" look.

[K7P5V]

Sigh....Rogue in Black and Green will always my "Iconic" look.

Indeed. That look will always be the highlight of "The Outback Era" (IMHO):

[ChronoRogue]

I've given this some thought, and I think Betsy's bad attitude toward Rogue had nothing to do Carol. Before she joined the X-Men, Betsy never ever met Carol. In my opinion Betsy's poor attitude was simply Class warfare. Think about it: Betsy was an English Aristocrat; Rogue was a poor youthful runaway taken in by a Criminal mastermind and used to commit crimes. (If this sounds familiar, this was part of the plotline of the Chares Dicken's novel Oliver Twist.) To Betsy, to use some English slang, Rogue was a "Ruffian" and "Hooligan". (In the first issue of the first Uncanny Avengers run, Wanda calls Rogue "Trailer Trash".)

Oh I'm not implying she had any past history with Carol, just that she ended up liking the personality better. I agree that they had much more in common and were closer in mental age.

That's a worry of mine as well that by the time the X-Men even appear in the movies, superhero movies will be mostly over. Especially now with all the strikes and delays which means it'll take even longer for the X-Men to show up.

I think there are a few reasons why Ororo and Betsy were not always very sympathetic towards Rogue besides the obvious. For one, Ororo and Carol had developed a friendship during Carol's time at the X-Mansion. The Carol in Rogue's head was not technically the same Carol that Ororo knew, but for her, she'd see them the same way and wouldn't have a lot of sympathy towards Rogue. Keep in mind that out of all the X-Men, it was Ororo who was most upset about Rogue joining the team and she nearly quit in protest. That always surprised me because Logan was the one who had a long history with Carol and viewed her as one of his closest friends (there's an issue where I think he only has two pictures on his desk, and one of them is Carol). I guess it helped that Logan was away in Japan and while he didn't trust Rogue when she arrived for his wedding, she quickly won his friendship when she was willing to sacrifice herself to save Mariko.

Yea, Ororo had a particularly strong reaction to Rogue. I think Storm back then and even now, has a very strong sense of morals and right or wrong. It's why she's never particularly liked Emma, outside of the overlooked event where she possessed her body, Emma is someone who is very morally grey. Storm understands death and even killing, but dislikes duplicity, betrayal and underhanded methods. I imagine to Ororo, Rogue must be the "ultimate thief" to have stolen someone's entire identity like that. Would have been fun if Claremont had drawn some parallels with Ororo's time in Cairo with the Shadow King and how she too was under the authority of someone who used her to achieve their own goals.

For Betsy, there's the fact that as a telepath, she'd be aware of Carol's persona and thoughts and feelings and thus treat her like her own separate person. She'd have sympathy for her being trapped in someone else's body in a way the others wouldn't because her telepathy would make her constantly aware of Carol's mind, even if Betsy and Carol had no prior history. Then again, they were both amongst Claremont's favorites and between Carol working as a government agent and Betsy as a STRIKE agent, pilot, and model, I can see Claremont revealing that they had worked together in the past. The only thing that confuses me somewhat is that when Rogue first joined the X-Men, Xavier said that the Kree DNA she had absorbed from Carol made her mind impenetrable to his telepathy and that's one reason why he could never help her. Yet, if her mind is so immune to psychic detection, how is it that Xavier could still share thoughts with her and the same is true for Betsy? Betsy is always keeping the X-Men mind-linked and using telepathy to contact them so did Rogue's psychic immunity just weaken over times or did Rogue find a way to allow telepaths access into her head from practice?

I have to wonder then why Xavier didn't feel that discomfort? To Xavier, it definitely seemed like Rogue's case felt like something that needed to be "fixed" and gained control of. In retrospect now that Xavier is portrayed much more as a morally ambiguous character, maybe he just didn't care.

As for her mind being chaotic or impenetrable for telepathy, it's definitely been inconsistently portrayed. To me it makes some sense that her mind isn't easy to navigate due to the "ghosts" in her mind, but plot often demands a way to communicate over long distances between characters so they portrayed it as not a barrier when it was inconvenient. (despite radio tech already being advanced in the 80s, let alone X-Men's sci-fi setting)

As said in other posts, I can see why Betsy would have more in common with Carol, even if they haven't ever met in person. Another factor is age. Carol and Betsy were both in their late 20s/early 30s, I believe, whereas Rogue was a teen. Between age, maturity, class, breeding, and also their previous status as government agents, it makes sense as to why Carol and Betsy would bond in a way that Betsy and Rogue never did in the 80s era. Even in the 90s, I don't remember Rogue and Betsy ever becoming best friends (Betsy was mostly aloof after the ninja swap stuff besides with Logan. Then Warren became her boyfriend and she and Jean started working together psychically) whereas Rogue's relationships mostly focused on Remy and Bobby. I think they were certainly friends then but never as close as they're made out to be now. It reminds me of how in the Fraction era, there was a big deal about Alison and Betsy being close friends because of their Outback X-Men days, but if you look at the Outback era, Betsy never really was friends with Alison either. She may not have had issues with her as she did with Rogue, but I don't remember them ever being close or hanging out. Alison's time was mostly spent in the love triangle with Longshot and Rogue and then she had a budding friendship with Alex.

Yea, I think it does make more sense for Betsy and Carol to be friends, as they share similar qualities with being involved with their governments defense departments as well as the significant age difference between Betsy and Rogue. ironically now Betsy n Carol are both Captains too Rogue really liked to test the patience of her female teammates, so that didn't help.

I do find it amusing that despite not really being portrayed as BFFs, they have been put on many teams together.

Outback
Blue Team
Revolution
X-Treme (briefly)
Astonishing
Excalibur

She may be the X-Woman Rogue has been on the most teams with on now that I think about, so I guess despite not being initially close I can see why they would be closer friends now then they were in the 80s. Just wish Howard had written it as awkward friends instead of like some close sisterhood that never really happened.

Discussing the Rogue/Storm dynamic some more and how much Storm really accepted her, I think another indication is that in Lifedeath II, when Storm is having visions of the X-Men, she doesn't include Rogue or Rachel as part of the team. The X-Men presented to her seem less the current X-Men as much as the ones she considers to be part of her family and thus closest to her heart and soul. Rachel's exclusion would make sense since Storm didn't know her very much at this point, especially since she left the team shortly after Rachel came into play. But Rogue had been around longer so her lack of inclusion here seems quite telling and suggests that while Storm may have accepted Rogue as a fellow X-Man and even began to trust her, she still hadn't accepted her as a family member.

Nice spotting of that detail and I agree, it definitely took a long while for Storm to fully accept Rogue. Meanwhile Rogue seemed to accept and respect Storm very fast, which is bittersweet in a way. You'd think the former villain would be the frosty one but I guess that speaks to her age that she latched onto the first authority figures she could find in the X-Men (Professor X, Storm). NGL, I was a bit disappointed TAS sold their friendship as much closer than they actually were in the comics. :P