Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Tank]

Fantastic Four doesn't sell. I can't tell you about Sue Storm because I, like most people, don't read about the Richards and their magic babies. I doubt "Mom-Jean" exaggerated to be the character's overwhelmingly dominant characteristic will sell or be endearing either. Most likely just dooming the character for another decade.They don't do this crap with important characters for a reason. Shogo is already waaay more than enough and shouldn't be a thing. He should have been sent to a bad future by this point.

Is the opposite of "creative stagnation" necessarily babies and regression? If Jean gets babies that crap is never going away. That will be THE Jean trait and the only trait. A character death-sentence that she couldn't simply be resurrected from. She would (will?) be stuck that way forever until a canon reboot.

Also, Fantastic Four already exists and it doesn't sell. And we already have Jubilee to see that this plotline is annoying and distracting (to some people).

Oh noes this must mean youÂ’re misogynistic!! Shame shame!!


Jk jk, I agree. And it has nothing to do with being a woman. I dont want any of the characters I like to have kids.

[Tank]

Maybe I'm being pessimistic but I think we'll see 616 Jean pregnant sooner than we expect.
If that happens I hope it's well written at least

With the current writer it will receive a couple passing comments and then we’ll get a narration box saying Jean is pregnant with no other developments. Just like his Scott/Jean mommy and daddy are fighting narrations. Shallow af, and I don’t expect anything deep.

[MechaJeanix]

I never liked the idea of Scott as a father either. There was a reason they had the baby infected with a virus and sent to the future and out of the picture for so long. Having the adult kids around solved an issue - kind of like in soap operas where the kids are rapidly aged and the parent characters mysteriously stay the same age.

Granted some of what you all are saying rings true - that it falls on the creatives not to write stereotypical tropes and stories and often what could be described simply as a limited imagination. I've been consistent on here that I mostly do not like how couples are written in fiction. Each time Gambit or Rogue refers to each other as 'dear' I cringe. Couples are often written in a way that I find non believable.

Again what I find problematic is the push for women characters to be mothers or the idea that it is a natural progression for them- talk about heteronormative cringe. Storm doesn't need to be a mother. Jean doesn't need to be a mother beyond what she already is - she is a mother to Cable. She took care of him in X-factor and she took care of him in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. You do not have to be pregnant or give birth to be a mother and if you think you do you would be wrong. I know attitudes about step parents and adoptions have changed a lot over the years, and I can't count how many times on various forums fans have said that Jean stole Cable from Maddie - like do they even read the stories. Or that Jean is not his real mother.

My sister is a mother but has never given birth. I know many moms who are mothers who have not been pregnant. Jean is such a mom in the comics. The cartoon is different and we'll have to wait and see how it shakes out. We do not yet know if Jean is a major central character or more of a supporting character like she was in much of the OG cartoon (though she did have some big moments especially the Phoenix sagas). Super heroes with kids does bring up interesting issues like putting young children in danger, how responsible is it to put yourself in danger when you have a kid at home that needs you, etc.). There are interesting dynamics to explore, and I do concede those points.

While typing this I remembered X-files and how they also wrote out Scully's kid. Sometimes creators view the children as problems to solve (just like baby Cable was probably viewed).

When it comes to Jean I think our reactions also highlight how we see the character and how we think the character should be portrayed in the books - for some of us we longed for the character to be so much more than an accessory of Scott Summers (or Logan) and to be free of them both, but I've also longed for her to be free of Rachel, Cable, and Nate - though over the years I'm more ok with Cable. I do like Rachel too at times.

This is why I loved Morrison's New X-men, there were no time lost kids. Jean and Scott felt young and were going through relationship issues - something many of us go through and something I was going through at the time being in my early 20s. They were so enjoyable and relatable. Again as an older person and a devoted uncle I probably could relate to mom/dad characters more, but if I had the control I wouldn't do that with Jean. I wouldn't do it with Storm either.

[Micabe]

Did anyone see the Atom Eve special? (she's jean coded to me idk) her action scenes are so fun I wish Jean got into more over the top action

I'm not a fan of Image books but, I just picked up "Invincible Presents Atom Eve" and "Invincible Presents Atom Eve & Rex Splode" recently... And, powersets notwithstanding, Atom Eve on the surface strikes me as a Jean Grey derivative of a sort, based on her powers which in many respects mirrors a sane Dark Phoenix so I got them just for comparison.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Oh noes this must mean youÂ’re misogynistic!! Shame shame!!


Jk jk, I agree. And it has nothing to do with being a woman. I dont want any of the characters I like to have kids.

That was such a goofy comment that I ignored it. Let alone evergreen comic book characters, a person can hate the idea of pregnancy in real life (I do not) and simultaneously not hate women. The ideas of womanhood and pregnancy aren't even necessarily one-and-the-same among women. Such a goofball comment.

And right. Nothing to do with women whatsoever, just don't want JG, or any of my favorites, stuck with the BS.

[ExodusCloak]

They could always make it so it's similar to Piper Halliwell with the baby protecting itself with TK from inside the womb.

And maybe she accesses extra powers via Rachel. The showrunner of 97 loves Jean I don't think there is anything to worry about.

That said still boycotting it

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

They could always make it so it's similar to Piper Halliwell with the baby protecting itself with TK from inside the womb.

And maybe she accesses extra powers via Rachel. The showrunner of 97 loves Jean I don't think there is anything to worry about.

That said still boycotting it

I love Piper and all the sisters. That show was super-formative for me, actually lol. I don't want a Wyatt for Jean, especially not without the specific intent that Jean is the lead on the show to balance out the time necessarily spent on fretting about the kid. Imagine Jean only popping up to say "oh no, my baby" as her only thing and every dialogue centered around that. Comics don't have a ton of real estate for deep exploration.

I would lean Jean more toward Prue: ass-kicker, vivacious, out in the world, figuring things out because she is a young adult, rarely ever crying and wilting, still the corralling figure of her adult friends and loved ones.

Edit -
This is a very important note about the pregnancy and motherhood depicted on Charmed in relation to X-Men discussions:

The show Charmed was very, very, very much about the women. Leo, the dad, was not at all the writers' way of bringing themselves into the story. They didn't make Piper pregnant to center him.

[starduck]

Just give Jean a two episode pregnancy like Wanda in Wandavision.

[Wiccan]

Feelings about the pregnancy in the show itself aside, why is anyone worrying about synergy? Even if it's by Marvel Studios, this isn't the MCU, it's a revival of a 90's cartoon. In a few years from now the actual MCU X-Men will come and Jean will certainly not be pregnant in that.

[Mercury]

We’re in for one hell of a week. It’s Hellfire Gala week. Very few fans will be spared. But—

“You’re talking to a woman who’s been killed, cloned, and kidnapped more times than I can remember. Let’s keep it in perspective.”

[BESTXMAN]

Please help me make Mommyean happen.

[BESTXMAN]

Did anyone see the Atom Eve special? (she's jean coded to me idk) her action scenes are so fun I wish Jean got into more over the top action

Yeah, reminded me of young watxm jean from that episode when cyclops was remembering how they met. It was awesome. Invincible is awesome.

[Gnostic]

Feelings about the pregnancy in the show itself aside, why is anyone worrying about synergy? Even if it's by Marvel Studios, this isn't the MCU, it's a revival of a 90's cartoon. In a few years from now the actual MCU X-Men will come and Jean will certainly not be pregnant in that.

That might happen next year if the actors strike is resolved soon, according to a leak from last year.

https://www.reddit.com/r/marvelstudi...m_august_2022/

[andreikes]

Where*a Jean :@


F1qsekcWYAYbRF1.jpg

[Gray Lensman]

I never liked the idea of Scott as a father either. There was a reason they had the baby infected with a virus and sent to the future and out of the picture for so long. Having the adult kids around solved an issue - kind of like in soap operas where the kids are rapidly aged and the parent characters mysteriously stay the same age.

Granted some of what you all are saying rings true - that it falls on the creatives not to write stereotypical tropes and stories and often what could be described simply as a limited imagination. I've been consistent on here that I mostly do not like how couples are written in fiction. Each time Gambit or Rogue refers to each other as 'dear' I cringe. Couples are often written in a way that I find non believable.

Again what I find problematic is the push for women characters to be mothers or the idea that it is a natural progression for them- talk about heteronormative cringe. Storm doesn't need to be a mother. Jean doesn't need to be a mother beyond what she already is - she is a mother to Cable. She took care of him in X-factor and she took care of him in Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. You do not have to be pregnant or give birth to be a mother and if you think you do you would be wrong. I know attitudes about step parents and adoptions have changed a lot over the years, and I can't count how many times on various forums fans have said that Jean stole Cable from Maddie - like do they even read the stories. Or that Jean is not his real mother.

My sister is a mother but has never given birth. I know many moms who are mothers who have not been pregnant. Jean is such a mom in the comics. The cartoon is different and we'll have to wait and see how it shakes out. We do not yet know if Jean is a major central character or more of a supporting character like she was in much of the OG cartoon (though she did have some big moments especially the Phoenix sagas). Super heroes with kids does bring up interesting issues like putting young children in danger, how responsible is it to put yourself in danger when you have a kid at home that needs you, etc.). There are interesting dynamics to explore, and I do concede those points.

While typing this I remembered X-files and how they also wrote out Scully's kid. Sometimes creators view the children as problems to solve (just like baby Cable was probably viewed).

When it comes to Jean I think our reactions also highlight how we see the character and how we think the character should be portrayed in the books - for some of us we longed for the character to be so much more than an accessory of Scott Summers (or Logan) and to be free of them both, but I've also longed for her to be free of Rachel, Cable, and Nate - though over the years I'm more ok with Cable. I do like Rachel too at times.

This is why I loved Morrison's New X-men, there were no time lost kids. Jean and Scott felt young and were going through relationship issues - something many of us go through and something I was going through at the time being in my early 20s. They were so enjoyable and relatable. Again as an older person and a devoted uncle I probably could relate to mom/dad characters more, but if I had the control I wouldn't do that with Jean. I wouldn't do it with Storm either.

We don't know how things will play out - the season might be setting up the show's version of where Scott has to give up Nathan in order for him to survive the TO virus (obviously with more input from Jean due to show changes) and setting up next season to have The Adventures of Cyclops and Phoenix. Or it could be a dream sequence, either a nightmare or Jean's hopes, or who knows what else.