Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I doubt JDW is actually prohibiting writers from using the pink form if they wanted to. I think he was just telling his opinion and that it has more to do with how he sees the time-displaced O5 in regards to their current characters in general than about Jean's powers.

I would hope not. If she can't have her Phoenix, she should at least have her pink form

[Mercury]

In practicality, Jean only has the abilities they depict her using.

Jean's history illustrates how this isn't the most efficient or even logical way to determine her abilities. Previously, she lost her telepathic and telekinetic abilities and her identity as Phoenix, only to regain them all. Moreover, if the Chief Editor of this franchise says she still has an ability, I'm going to believe him. Then again, I am fully aware that, in the comic book medium, some details and plot points don't pay off right away or as quickly as some of us would like. In fact, sometimes specific details and plot points aren't revisited and utilized for years. However, I'd much rather rely on what's canon—i.e., the aforementioned psionic-energy absorption ability—than lean on cynical takes borne from frustration about some fan or other not getting their way.

You have a tendency to frame Jean as a victim of editorial mandates that only exist in your mind—that is, these mandates have not been stated anywhere, much less officialized, and in many cases are out and out contradicted by canon and what has been stated and officialized—and, in doing so, you are the one that ends up limiting her. Moreover, you minimize the progress that has been made and is being made with her. I mean, we have an upcoming miniseries set in the present era and dedicated exclusively to her that positions her as a—if not the—central heroine during Fall of X, and yet, you still find reasons to complain. Learn to enjoy the moment instead of always bemoaning the past and griping about what you imagine she and her fans are missing.

[Micabe]

I concur... Why should the aforementioned time displacement only have a lasting effect on Bobby and not on Jean and the others?

[Mercury]

I concur... Why should the aforementioned time displacement only have a lasting effect on Bobby and not on Jean and the others?

Because reasonzzzz.

[Micabe]

Because reasonzzzz.

Gee, thanks... Now I have Earth, Wind, and Fire's "Reasons" looping in my head

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Jean's history illustrates how this isn't the most efficient or even logical way to determine her abilities. Previously, she lost her telepathic and telekinetic abilities and her identity as Phoenix, only to regain them all. Moreover, if the Chief Editor of this franchise says she still has an ability, I'm going to believe him. Then again, I am fully aware that, in the comic book medium, some details and plot points don't pay off right away or as quickly as some of us would like. In fact, sometimes specific details and plot points aren't revisited and utilized for years. However, I'd much rather rely on what's canon—i.e., the aforementioned psionic-energy absorption ability—than lean on cynical takes borne from frustration about some fan or other not getting their way.

You have a tendency to frame Jean as a victim of editorial mandates that only exist in your mind—that is, these mandates have not been stated anywhere, much less officialized, and in many cases are out and out contradicted by canon and what has been stated and officialized—and, in doing so, you are the one that ends up limiting her. Moreover, you minimize the progress that has been made and is being made with her. I mean, we have an upcoming miniseries set in the present era and dedicated exclusively to her that positions her as a—if not the—central heroine during Fall of X, and yet, you still find reasons to complain. Learn to enjoy the moment instead of always bemoaning the past and griping about what you imagine she and her fans are missing.

What does Jean having a mini-series have to do with what we are talking about? I am just slightly engaged at the idea of taking issue with my saying the pink form and White Phoenix don't count for the current-day iteration of Jean even though we don't actually have those things in the comics. I believe the original question posed by Micabe was along the line of 'why does she need White Phoenix stuff when she has pink form?'. For all practical intents and purposes, she doesn't have either of those things. Those are things she used to do lol

Gee, thanks... Now I have Earth, Wind, and Fire's "Reasons" looping in my head

Simple solution: listen to September instead!

[Micabe]

What does Jean having a mini-series have to do with what we are talking about? I am just slightly engaged at the idea of taking issue with my saying the pink form and White Phoenix don't count for the current-day iteration of Jean even though we don't actually have those things in the comics. I believe the original question posed by Micabe was along the line of 'why does she need White Phoenix stuff when she has pink form?'. For all practical intents and purposes, she doesn't have either of those things. Those are things she used to do lol

I perceive only one hiccup with that line of reasoning, and that's to say, Jean has never been seen by humanoid eyes wearing the White Phoenix unitard or referred to herself as such outside of Classic X-Men #43 and a certain story-arc set 150 years in an alternate future. One could say one instance never happened and the other might never happen at all...

Simple solution: listen to September instead!

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I perceive only one hiccup with that line of reasoning, and that's to say, Jean has never been seen by humanoid eyes wearing the White Phoenix unitard or referred to herself as such outside of Classic X-Men #43 and a certain story-arc set 150 years in an alternate future. One could say one instance never happened and the other might never happen at all...

Yeah, I have heard the notion that WPotC is not even Jean, but a possible future version of Jean, or that WPotC kind of undid herself in changing the past so that Here Comes Tomorrow never happened. Not my preferred take, of course, but it lines up with current comics and explains how it's not canon. Think I read the Avengers editor say that some years back.

[Mercury]

You’re both wrong. Jean was, and in my opinion still is, White Phoenix and is able to absorb and utilize psionic energy. Both of these established facets of her character exist as dormant characteristics—potentials and possibilities, if you will—not contradictions nor impossibilities. And until the powers that be, whether in the form of an editor or writer, explicitly state in an interview or story that these facets are no longer considered canon—neither of which has happened—they will remain canon.

That’s all.

[Micabe]

Well, Mercury sure told us, huh

[Mercury]

Well, Mercury sure told us, huh

[MechaJeanix]

So for the Jean mini what are some key moments in Jean's life that we want to see? We know we'll see the merger with the Phoenix from the shuttle, and we'll see her "final" confrontation with Maddie (in which the Phoenix also shows up), what other moments do we want to see? I'm sure we'll see Jean in the cocoon as well.

I would love to see some childhood stuff from Jean - her early days working with Xavier (and maybe Moira). I don't really expect it, but I could be surprised. Maybe we'll see some early X-men days too.

We may see her wedding to Scott, or their honeymoon in the future. Maybe we'll see her death in New X-men. I could see Phoenix Resurrection getting some focus (the moment she rejected the Phoenix maybe).

I realize it is only 4 issues but it is fun to speculate until we get more info. I hope it isn't too long before we get some sort of art preview.

[Portsian]

There is so much potential to explore, it’s a shame it’s only 4 issues, plus it needs to tie in to Fall of X and give Jean a sounding board to move on from. I am hoping for some resolutions to Jean / Phoenix, but it is so convoluted I am sure we won’t get resolutions that can’t be retconned AGAIN in the future. However I would like to see Jean finally accept her role as Phoenix / Dark Phoenix, and move on from that.

[Portsian]

Is he hugging, kissing or dry humping him?

[Mercury]

I’ll respond to posts later—I’m incredibly busy this a.m.—but here are some Jean tidbits from X-Men Monday, in which X-Men White chats about Jean and Scott’s “schism,” the impetus for Jean’s upcoming miniseries and how it fits into #FallOfX, and hints at her solo “connect[ing] up with another Fall of X book in a kind of surprising way.”:

https://aiptcomics.com/2023/05/29/x-...ordan-d-white/