Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Thirteen]

The changes help, but that is undoubtedly one of Lees' worst designs. It's too bad he gave the green/yellow scheme to Rogue -- and then had to come up with something that didn't really suit Jean. That said -- the animated series made a bad design even worse.

It does beg the question about the direction not taken with the unused Jean Grey design from the Blue/Gold Jim Lee era which is Phoenix.

[Phoenixx9]

It does beg the question about the direction not taken with the unused Jean Grey design from the Blue/Gold Jim Lee era which is Phoenix.

They don't want Jean being or looking too powerful I guess (as she certaily does in the above).

[Tank]

It's fugly top to bottom. It's just what people remember watching a couple of times on TV 30 years ago.

At least the X-Men Red version of this costume colored the boots so the color layout is a bit better.


I will say that I am glad the '97 design ditched the cooch delineator down the center lmao

Agreed, fugly! The constant homages to it arent any better. Red was a clunky mess as well. Keep her costumes streamlined please!

[Phoenixx9]

Agreed, fugly! The constant homages to it arent any better. Red was a clunky mess as well. Keep her costumes streamlined please!

I hated the red and blue mess.

Do these artists really think these are good designs? Or do they not like Jean and just give her the worst they can create?

Even non-artists know they are terrible.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I hated the red and blue mess.

Do these artists really think these are good designs? Or do they not like Jean and just give her the worst they can create?

Even non-artists know they are terrible.

It's not the artists' fault really. They get told constantly by editorial that everything has to look like the 90s costume.

[Phoenixx9]

It's not the artists' fault really. They get told constantly by editorial that everything has to look like the 90s costume.

Really? They still get told that? The '90's are so over and long gone.

Many fans today are not even born till mid-late 90's.

[Force de Phenix]

It's fugly top to bottom. It's just what people remember watching a couple of times on TV 30 years ago.

At least the X-Men Red version of this costume colored the boots so the color layout is a bit better.

I will say that I am glad the '97 design ditched the cooch delineator down the center lmao

Her current look is fucking ugly, probably the worse to date, and I think some people just want to like it, and convinced themselves of it, because they didn't like her Marvel Girl costume, but it's leggings with the ballerina ankles and high heels and floating buckle that makes it look like a mess.

Her 90's costume was a reverse of the the training looks from 89-90.

Do these artists really think these are good designs? Or do they not like Jean and just give her the worst they can create?

A lot of characters have bad looks currently, but they tend to be changing more often, so we don't have to look at them for too long.

[Devaishwarya]

As much as I hate Lee's 90s designs they're undoubtedly iconic and recogniseable and sellable. I actually love how Dauterman has managed to streamline Jean's look...no more bulky hip pads or the tacky crotch strip. I love the wide belt. I would add dark blue thigh detailing and dark blue boots to break up the neutral colour from from waist down. But this is a definite and vast improvement.

[Thirteen]

They don't want Jean being or looking too powerful I guess (as she certaily does in the above).

I wonder more if the Phoenix identity was proposed to return to Jean, in one form or another at that early stage of the game with the launch of Adjectiveless. Jean's psi energy display on the iconic cover could easily have been a Phoenix raptor in earlier drafts. It seems like an odd position to display Jean compositionally otherwise.

[Phoenixx9]

I wonder more if the Phoenix identity was proposed to return to Jean, in one form or another at that early stage of the game with the launch of Adjectiveless. Jean's psi energy display on the iconic cover could easily have been a Phoenix raptor in earlier drafts. It seems like an odd position to display Jean compositionally otherwise.

Huh, I see what you mean.

[Celestialbodies]

they changed it bc the original was ugly and this is superior in every way

Completely agreed!

This was probably the most uninspired look Jim Lee created when he redesigned the X-Men. I don't hate it but the colour combination doesn't really work for me and the design itself is pretty bland. At least they lost the ponytail though!

I've always wondered why everyone hated this look so much lol. Outside of the TAS version, I have no problems with it, and honestly it's not like Jean was wearing anything that much better before. Truth Jean has always struggle with good costume anyone remember this:

It does beg the question about the direction not taken with the unused Jean Grey design from the Blue/Gold Jim Lee era which is Phoenix.

I do not care what anyone says, if they had put Jean in this costume, I wholeheartedly believe she would have had a bigger presence...oh well.

They don't want Jean being or looking too powerful I guess (as she certaily does in the above).

This opinion gets a lot of pushback, but historically Jean is constantly getting her stories cut off, right before she gets "too powerful".

[5cents]

I only like the 90s look because it’s one of Jean’s most recognized costumes.

I think during the 90s Marvel didn’t care for Jean. The 90s Animated show creators were told to not use her much on the show.

“For Will Meugniot, the guy who designed the 90s Animated series (choosing to make animation-friendly versions of the characters, closest in look to the originals of the great Jim Lee), it was Jean Grey. Why? To Marvel at the time Jean was an after-thought. We writers soon discovered what a key she was to storytelling — she was the quiet center that held the team together. But she sure didn’t have the coolest look or power or name. And that’s why Will loved her. She wasn’t “Fantastica!” or “Megamistress!” She was just Jean Grey.”

[Phoenixx9]

I do not care what anyone says, if they had put Jean in this costume, I wholeheartedly believe she would have had a bigger presence...oh well.


This opinion gets a lot of pushback, but historically Jean is constantly getting her stories cut off, right before she gets "too powerful".

I did like that costume on Jean.

There are many Jean Grey haters out there (and some even on here that pop in), including writers and artists that sometimes keep that fact quiet, but we fans can tell in the costumes and stories (or lack thereof) that Jean gets.

[Phoenixx9]

I think during the 90s Marvel didn’t care for Jean. The 90s Animated show creators were told to not use her much on the show.

Yes, that is true. Same for the Animated Show.

Also, the writers/artists said that for XM '97, Jean would get a "more feminine face". Why did they decide now to do that but not originally? Because they did not care for her.

[SugarMan]

Other than her original (blue/gold) costume, and the Phoenix, Jean hasn't really had a good costume. They should just give her the iconic Phoenix costume (in whatever color you like), and be done with it.