Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Phoenixx9]

On another note, does anyone remember Giraud of Haven? He was host in the 31st century and If I recall correctly he flipped his wig like the manipulated Jean Grey did when he was afflicted by a psychic virus and destroyed a few planets himself but, eventually he got better after he came to his senses just like Jean did... So, in a nutshell, Jean Grey totally gets an unending bad rap for something that was done to her, and if that's not victim shaming/blaming I don't know what is.

What are you talking about, of course we do. Of course I do.

Giraud of Haven AKA Phoenix IX did not "flip his wig" and was not "manipulated like Jean", Giraud was infected with a psychic virus.

Due to Giraud's unique bond with the Phoenix Force, the Force worked with Giraud to burn the virus out of his system. Giraud, as Phoenix IX then went on to disinfect the ship as well as burn away the virus his fellow sick Guardians.

[The Thunderbird]

There's this drawing of Jean by Ana Pines that I found a few years back. It was posted by Jean Grey FanPage on Twitter.

[Micabe]

What are you talking about, of course we do. Of course I do.

Giraud of Haven AKA Phoenix IX did not "flip his wig" and was not "manipulated like Jean", Giraud was infected with a psychic virus.

Due to Giraud's unique bond with the Phoenix Force, the Force worked with Giraud to burn the virus out of his system. Giraud, as Phoenix IX then went on to disinfect the ship as well as burn away the virus his fellow sick Guardians.

Hmm... Perhaps I failed to get my point across. Allow me to reiterate. When I said manipulated -- I meant that they were being forced to act out of character not of their own volition... My correlation comes from the fact that both Jean Gray and Giraud of Haven were hosts who despite the method were compromised by an outside influence and practically acted out in the same manner -- Jean ate a star because of the Mindtap Mechinism and Giraud destroyed a bunch of planets after being infected with a psychic virus. I know it's probably just me but, I see a correlation there.

[Rev9]

I don't have a problem with Hope though! I like her and together with Jean and (ugh,) Rachel she gives the Phoenix a Father, Son, Holy Spirit vibe. My headcanon is that Hope was immaculately conceived via the Phoenix's interference. I do think White Phoenix Jean should have appeared more explicitly during the finale of AvX though, that ghostly apparition talking to Cyclops didn't cut it for me.

It's possible that it was the Phoenix talking to Scott in a familiar guise..it said 'it's time to let go' and he did and it moved to call out to Hope.

[andreikes]

this art... jesus

ac9c7c22d93be9c24e8fadb63bd64b50.jpg

[Soulsword323]

I have such a love/hate thing with Teen Jean.

On one hand, Jeen's inclusion brought me back to the books. I loved how central Jean was to the plot, her respective on her adult counterpart, and how powerful she was. I really loved how Bendis try to elevate Jean's power by giving her that pink form. It felt like a way around the Phoenix issue. If Marvel wanted Jean removed from the Phoenix, then the pink form was a way to emulate that without being exactly the same. I'm still disappointed that one seems to want to utilize that aspect of Jean's power. It gives her a distinct visual, and helps her standout from all the other telepaths and TK users the X-Men has.

On the other hand, I hate Jean being a trainee. I dislike how Jeen didn't have the same relationship with her peers that her adult self had, and that she wanted to be so different from the Jean we know and love. It was pretty telling that a lot of people who never liked Jean before, loved Teen Jean. I think it highlights the differences in their characters. Obviously, there are a lot of similarities between the two, but still. Not to mention how inconsistent Jeen's characterization could be, and some of the choices made with the character were not great (Jeen dating Hank, and the whole Iceman thing).

[Phoenixx9]

Hmm... Perhaps I failed to get my point across. Allow me to reiterate. When I said manipulated -- I meant that they were being forced to act out of character not of their own volition... My correlation comes from the fact that both Jean Gray and Giraud of Haven were hosts who despite the method were compromised by an outside influence and practically acted out in the same manner -- Jean ate a star because of the Mindtap Mechinism and Giraud destroyed a bunch of planets after being infected with a psychic virus. I know it's probably just me but, I see a correlation there.

I can see the comparison you are making better with this iteration. But there are more too. Both Jean Grey and Giraud had unique and powerful bonds with the Phoenix Force. Both Jean Grey and Giraud are Mega-Super-Powerful as Phoenix Hosts. But both are still vulnerable to some outside forces, in Jean's case a powerful telepath who devised an insideous device used by a powerful illusionist who attacked Jean over and over, whilst Giraud was attacked by Bubonius' Cosmic Virus that even laid low Firelord, Hollywood and the Cosmic Ghost Rider. Giraud as Phoenix IX sterilized Icarus and cured the Guardians. Giraud then went on to cauterize Eternity's Tumor!

[Micabe]

I can see the comparison you are making better with this iteration. But there are more too. Both Jean Grey and Giraud had unique and powerful bonds with the Phoenix Force. Both Jean Grey and Giraud are Mega-Super-Powerful as Phoenix Hosts. But both are still vulnerable to some outside forces, in Jean's case a powerful telepath who devised an insideous device used by a powerful illusionist who attacked Jean over and over, whilst Giraud was attacked by Bubonius' Cosmic Virus that even laid low Firelord, Hollywood and the Cosmic Ghost Rider. Giraud as Phoenix IX sterilized Icarus and cured the Guardians. Giraud then went on to cauterize Eternity's Tumor!

Touché

[Micabe]

Giraud of Haven



Jean Grey

[Phoenixx9]

Touché

Well, after all, I do know my own Origin!

[Phoenixx9]

Giraud of Haven



Jean Grey

Good classic scenes!

I appreciate seeing them both after such a long time!

Thank you for posting them, Micabe.

Do you have the scans after both break free of their manipulations?

[Mercury]

She accepted, rejected, and designated Phoenix…

What else is left? 🤔

[Celestialbodies]

Hopeless didn't know Phoenix Resurrection/Actual Jean coming back was happening until after he was pretty much finished writing. A combination of bad management, typical "meh" reaction from editorial at Jean, and I think a bit of aggro toward Hopeless. The way Hopeless and Bunn told it, it seemed Marvel was not super great to them.

Ghost Jean was a bitch and that is something that Jean is not. Hopeless version did not read like any Jean that came before him and that antagonistic relationship she had with her younger self was off putting. It wasnt just her either bc his teen Jean was irritating and annoying so to write two versions of the same charater so poorly, was quite the disappointment. Thank god for Bunn at the time bc Jean was hard to stomach in that solo

I'll also fully admit, I wanted "my" Jean back so any departure from that was going to be a hard pill to swallow.

Perhaps the best sequence in the original Jean Grey series is the one MechaJeanix mentions. While ghost Jean has spent her time warning teenage Jean about the Phoenix’s emergence, in the end, she also heavily alludes to their intrinsic connection; to the fact that she and teenage Jean and Phoenix are one. As for ghost Jean painting Jean in a bad light or as a bitch, I think she, along with Jean in Phoenix Resurrection, which was published concurrently with the final issues of this first series, showcase Jean’s multifaceted nature beautifully. She can be both passive and aggressive, subdued and explosive, empathic and ruthlessly cold. And I think it was essential to showcase these facets during her official resurrection.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FeqLxKoW...jpg&name=large

This all of this perfectly encapsulates why I hated Ghost Jean, none of this was helpful and in what reality would Jean force the PF onto someone, let alone herself? Her entire relationship with the PF and her own destiny has been based on her own terms, her throwing all of that away to become what this is doesn't ring true to the character. What even was point of this, she abandons Teen Jean after she dies and is ultimately unable to stop even herself from re-merging with the PF, so why exactly was she so harsh to a teenager?

I have such a love/hate thing with Teen Jean.

On one hand, Jeen's inclusion brought me back to the books. I loved how central Jean was to the plot, her respective on her adult counterpart, and how powerful she was. I really loved how Bendis try to elevate Jean's power by giving her that pink form. It felt like a way around the Phoenix issue. If Marvel wanted Jean removed from the Phoenix, then the pink form was a way to emulate that without being exactly the same. I'm still disappointed that one seems to want to utilize that aspect of Jean's power. It gives her a distinct visual, and helps her standout from all the other telepaths and TK users the X-Men has.

On the other hand, I hate Jean being a trainee. I dislike how Jeen didn't have the same relationship with her peers that her adult self had, and that she wanted to be so different from the Jean we know and love. It was pretty telling that a lot of people who never liked Jean before, loved Teen Jean. I think it highlights the differences in their characters. Obviously, there are a lot of similarities between the two, but still. Not to mention how inconsistent Jeen's characterization could be, and some of the choices made with the character were not great (Jeen dating Hank, and the whole Iceman thing).

Honestly, I struggled with Teen Jean for the same reasons, Bendis Jean especially rubbed me the wrong way because she felt like the conflict ball. He'd use her to drum up contrived conflict, consistently had her repeating the same mistakes with little growth or so I thought. Looking back, Teen Jean is what the adult version always should have been. Unbind by relationship or baggage of her history, she was put in unique and interesting situations that played on her development. It's also when her presence as a psychic around the Marvel U really grew, she was able to stand shoulder to shoulder with her adult self peers. She felt directly involved in the happenings around her and directly pushed her own narrative. All of that for me ended the moment she went back in time, even after her adult self return she was mostly shuffled off in Red, the stakes in that title didn't always permeate to it's sister titles, and once it ended I feel like Jean was directionless til HOX/POX.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

The part of Ghost Jean I didn't like was her being afraid of the Phoenix, of course, that wasn't her fault. If I had been editorial, I would have worked with Hopeless on telling a story of how Ghost Jean tries to prepare Teen Jean to embrace her destiny and become an even better Phoenix than Jean was originally, rather than having them run from it. Aah, the wonders the character could have with a positive editorial behind her. No other superhero is as consistently and (and often maliciously) undermined.



On the subject of time-travel teens, if I met my teenaged self, woof that boy would be something else when I was done with him lmao. If we only knew then what we know now, as they say lol

[CaptainUniverse]

She accepted, rejected, and designated Phoenix…

What else is left? ��

A Phoenix Tournament Arc? Oh wait, Avengers already did one of those and it gave us PHOENIX HYPERION!