Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[CaptainUniverse]

That's peaked my interest as well. Is there a place where all the characters on each card are confirmed?

I don't think so, I've only seen a handful of them like Kamala Khan as The Sun, Dr. Strange as The Magician, Deadpool as The Fool and Loki as The Devil...which was odd, you'd think Mephisto would be The Devil.

[Konja7]

I prefer her in the High Priestess role. Conflating her with death seems regressive.

Why do you think it's regressive?

Death is the card of "change" in Tarot. It represents something ending, but also something new starting.

[Gray Lensman]

Why do you think it's regressive?

Death is the card of "change" in Tarot. It represents something ending, but also something new starting.

As the song goes, every new beginning comes from some other begining's end.

But yes, the Death card in Tarot often signifies the death of a status quo rather than someone dying.

[Havok83]

As the song goes, every new beginning comes from some other begining's end.

But yes, the Death card in Tarot often signifies the death of a status quo rather than someone dying.

and everytime Jean has had a major death and returned, its resulted in a shift in the status quo

[Mercury]

Love this. From Magneto #2 (2023):

”They call her…Marvel Girl. An insipid, inadequate name for a creature so powerful. More powerful than any of them realize. It’s as if I see her future laid out before me. See her rising like a Phoenix from the ashes of tragedy to embrace a great and terrible destiny.”—Magneto

[whitecrown]

Love this. From Magneto #2 (2023):

That's a great reminder to the fact that Jean single-handedly beat Magneto in X-Men #63.

[whitecrown]

I don't think so, I've only seen a handful of them like Kamala Khan as The Sun, Dr. Strange as The Magician, Deadpool as The Fool and Loki as The Devil...which was odd, you'd think Mephisto would be The Devil.

I saw those as well with a Google search. I thought there may have been a video where someone had gotten an early copy and reviewed all the cards.

I guess Loki is more popular now and they wanted him to have a significant card and this is the only one they could think of.

[whitecrown]

Why do you think it's regressive?

Death is the card of "change" in Tarot. It represents something ending, but also something new starting.

My issue isn't with the significance of death as part of the Tarot but with the fact that Jean already gets unduly blamed for always dying and resurrecting and I'd like to see her not be connected with death so much.

That's why I found it refreshing that in the Midnight Sons game, Jean was the High Priestess and it was Thanos' lover Death who took the role of Death. And of course, Jean herself has spoken to Death many times so if an actual embodiment of Death exists, that would be a better choice for that card. But much like with Loki playing the Devil role instead of Mephisto, it seems Marvel was more interested in picking symbolic representations based on more popular characters.

[Gray Lensman]

My issue isn't with the significance of death as part of the Tarot but with the fact that Jean already gets unduly blamed for always dying and resurrecting and I'd like to see her not be connected with death so much.

That's why I found it refreshing that in the Midnight Sons game, Jean was the High Priestess and it was Thanos' lover Death who took the role of Death. And of course, Jean herself has spoken to Death many times so if an actual embodiment of Death exists, that would be a better choice for that card. But much like with Loki playing the Devil role instead of Mephisto, it seems Marvel was more interested in picking symbolic representations based on more popular characters.

Well, you can't beat Death to be the death card, but for a series where everyone is one of the X-Men, it's either Jean or Warren, and despite Warren once actually being called Death, Jean IS a better representation of what the cats signifies. When Jean returns, even if the death was only a few panels previous, she shakes the foundation of the series, and that goes all the way back to that initial space shuttle crash.

[Phoenixx9]

Love this. From Magneto #2 (2023):

I love these panels. Such power in Jean!

[Phoenixx9]

That's a great reminder to the fact that Jean single-handedly beat Magneto in X-Men #63.

Yeah, but what Magneto was referencing was an earlier fight with Jean, not #63.

In the original story, Jean used her TK full force on Mags. You see dotted lines coming out of her in all directions towards him. Magneto only won because he already had gassed Jean but she did not know it, so that what she thought was full power, was virtually nothing and then she passed out.

[Grey]

Love this. From Magneto #2 (2023):

Ah, one of the few scenarios where I agree with magneto- marvel girl being an insipid name for jean.

I’ve said before; I personally cringe any time I see “marvel girl” rather than jean grey, and loathe the idea of her being “upgraded” to something like “marvel woman”. It reeks of a bygone era, to me, where characters were named after their franchise in some fourth-wall-breaking concept. I compare it to the idea of there being a “DC girl”
Or “DC woman”. It’s just so cheeky and cheesy for me, especially when I think of it in more “realistic”
Movies like live film (to be clear I feel the Same about comics). I just don’t see the appeal other than nostalgia.

So anyway…. Yea, magneto!

[Grinning Soul]

The Death Card from The Marvel Tarot Deck and Guidebook:

Death is okay, but since Storm is The High Priestess card now, I'd love if Jean was either The Empress or The Strength (my favourite for her).

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Ah, one of the few scenarios where I agree with magneto- marvel girl being an insipid name for jean.

I’ve said before; I personally cringe any time I see “marvel girl” rather than jean grey, and loathe the idea of her being “upgraded” to something like “marvel woman”. It reeks of a bygone era, to me, where characters were named after their franchise in some fourth-wall-breaking concept. I compare it to the idea of there being a “DC girl”
Or “DC woman”. It’s just so cheeky and cheesy for me, especially when I think of it in more “realistic”
Movies like live film (to be clear I feel the Same about comics). I just don’t see the appeal other than nostalgia.

So anyway…. Yea, magneto!

DC Girl could have electrical powers lmao


Agree with Mags about the name.

[whitecrown]

Death is okay, but since Storm is The High Priestess card now, I'd love if Jean was either The Empress or The Strength (my favourite for her).

Xavier is The Hierophant and Gambit is The Wheel of Fortune.

The Empress is my preferred card for Jean as well since I think she deserves the crown. I don't know who the Strength card is, but I imagine it'll go to a character like She-Hulk. Captain Marvel is probably The Star.