Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[The Thunderbird]

With resurrection so readily available no one is getting any older so the x-office aren’t that scared anymore of time passing the x-men by

Unless Spiderman gets resurrected too then I don't think that Marvel would do away with the sliding timeline just yet.

[Daedra]

Unless Spiderman gets resurrected too then I don't think that Marvel would do away with the sliding timeline just yet.

That’s why I specifically mentioned the x-offices and the fact that they aren’t obsessing over the issue, I don’t think they are doing away with the concept of a sliding timescale in general either.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

Resurrection, no one getting any older, Destiny was returned to a younger “more beautiful” body for Mystique. Who’d have thought xmen would be such body fascists. Goes against everything they believe in!

Should the X-Men let their people become older and more debilitated if they can help it?

(I don't think anyone should live forever, given limited resources, but just for argument's sake)

[Lukmendes]

I was unimpressed with how Dark Web ended. I loved the X-men mini but the main event was too Spiderman focused for me and diluted things.

And the Spidey side is horribly presented too, so nobody wins by having Spidey involved in this nonsense lol.

Going forward I wonder how much Jean and Maddie will interact especially since Jean acknowledged that they are family and both women are in a better place

I feel Madelyne may have a soft spot for Jean after how Jean helped her, but who knows how close they may become (If that even happens).

Linked to the annual Gala story, does that mean marvel time line now in synch with ours?

Only the X-Men side, and even then, I doubt it'll remain that way, sliding timescale ignores such things after a while.

Well, the age reset is not mandatory, it’s usually in accordance to each person wishes…see cable for example… they get a reset to what they consider their best self

Yeah, the only one I'm aware who didn't get a say on it is Destiny, since Mystique decided to resurrect her with the age Destiny had back when they first met, but seems anyone can just choose what age their own body would be.

Unless Spiderman gets resurrected too then I don't think that Marvel would do away with the sliding timeline just yet.

The sliding time scale is not consistent across Marvel, so what one franchise says may not be the same thing another one says, and hell, even what the same franchise says changes after a while.

Look at the different rates Franklin and Kitty aged lol.

Marvel usually says 14 years have passed since F4's debut, yet, ASM#14 vol 5 has a throwaway line where MJ says Spidey is on his mid 20's, and Black Cat#1 says the same thing about Felicia, which, would mean only 10 or 11 years have passed since F4's debut... And then apparently some issue of Wells' ASM run has Spidey be on his 30's.

So yeah, sliding time scale is a colossal headache, and not worth overthinking it lol.

Should the X-Men let their people become older and more debilitated if they can help it?

(I don't think anyone should live forever, given limited resources, but just for argument's sake)

I don't think it's about "letting" them, if a mutant wants to die a natural death their wishes should be respected, if someone can't even have a choice about whether or they'll eventually die for real, that'd be really fucked up.

But yeah, aside from that, the resurrection protocols already rise a bunch of ethical questions even if we ignore how the resurrected characters are just clones, right now mutants are being "resurrected" because of "unfair" deaths, but, let's say at some point they resurrect everyone who died on Genosha, what then? Are they planning to ever stop the resurrection protocols? Are the likes of the Quiet Council gonna rule Krakoa forever while people like Cyke and Jean will always be fighting for them as long as the resurrection protocols exist?

[Subliminally]

Just curious: Is this still a "limit" to the force or has it been forgotten?

[Daedra]

Just curious: Is this still a "limit" to the force or has it been forgotten?

Honestly I’m very conflicted about that issue, I’m totally in love with Alan Davis art, but I never enjoyed his take on the phoenix mythology

[Phoenixx9]

Just curious: Is this still a "limit" to the force or has it been forgotten?

Maybe a limit with Rachel...?

There is NO limit on the Pure Phoenix Force. There is also no limit with Jean Grey as Phoenix.

[CaptainUniverse]

Maybe a limit with Rachel...?

There is NO limit on the Pure Phoenix Force. There is also no limit with Jean Grey as Phoenix.

Limit Breaker! C-C-C-Combo Breaker!

[Phoenixx9]

Limit Breaker! C-C-C-Combo Breaker!

Lol! This is a cool pic!

"Beware Thanos! Your evil deeds are about to be over. And so are you! Bawahahahaha"

[Askani's Flame]

Maybe a limit with Rachel...?

There is NO limit on the Pure Phoenix Force. There is also no limit with Jean Grey as Phoenix.

But this WAS the "Pure Phoenix Force", just operating in full control of Rachel's healing body. It's likely been retconned but those were the limitations the Phoenix Force said it had.

[Phoenixx9]

But this WAS the "Pure Phoenix Force", just operating in full control of Rachel's healing body. It's likely been retconned but those were the limitations the Phoenix Force said it had.

No. When the Phoenix Force is bonded or hosted, it is not "the Pure Phoenix Force". The Pure Phoenix Force is without a host or bond, in its natural state.

In this case, if it was hosted by Rachel, then it is not the Pure Phoenix Force and without limits.

[Askani's Flame]

No. When the Phoenix Force is bonded or hosted, it is not "the Pure Phoenix Force". The Pure Phoenix Force is without a host or bond, in its natural state.

In this case, if it was hosted by Rachel, then it is not the Pure Phoenix Force and without limits.

So I just looked at the Wikipedia page, and it still states the following:
"... Galactus accuses the Phoenix Force of hypocrisy and reveals to it that its existence in a corporeal state is sustained by robbing energy used to birth future generations."

"The Phoenix Force can manipulate cosmic energies and tap into the life-force reserved for future generations, which denies their existence."

So technically still accurate, just not discussed. As long as the force is corporeal or being hosted or draws on future generations for fuel.

Is this a real term, "Pure Phoenix Force"?

[Phoenixx9]

So I just looked at the Wikipedia page, and it still states the following:
"... Galactus accuses the Phoenix Force of hypocrisy and reveals to it that its existence in a corporeal state is sustained by robbing energy used to birth future generations."

"The Phoenix Force can manipulate cosmic energies and tap into the life-force reserved for future generations, which denies their existence."

So technically still accurate, just not discussed. As long as the force is corporeal or being hosted or draws on future generations for fuel.

Is this a real term, "Pure Phoenix Force"?

I know that Galactus said that to Rachel when she hosted the Phoenix Force, but it was Rachel being bonded to it and using its energies that it needed to refuel.

Also, who said that Galactus is truth incarnate? I think he just wanted to throw some shade, lol.

The Pure Phoenix Force is the PF when not attached to a host. In this instance, Rachel was a host. Galactus did not want to be told to stop feeding so he claimed Rachel caused even more damage than he does, just so she would leave him alone.

[Askani's Flame]

I know that Galactus said that to Rachel when she hosted the Phoenix Force, but it was Rachel being bonded to it and using its energies that it needed to refuel.

Also, who said that Galactus is truth incarnate? I think he just wanted to throw some shade, lol.

The Pure Phoenix Force is the PF when not attached to a host. In this instance, Rachel was a host. Galactus did not want to be told to stop feeding so he claimed Rachel caused even more damage than he does, just so she would leave him alone.

But this doesn't discount that this is in fact the PF's power source. There hasn't been another panel starting this to be false, and it's being cited as true on websites.

And again, this was not Rachel in these panels. It was the Phoenix Force. In control of her body. Essentially akin to it wearing Jean's body. Rachel was dead and slowly being rebuilt by the Phoenix while it inhabited her body (to protect her child). She did not return to consciousness to several issues later when she took the mantle and power and the PF went dormant.

And this term "Pure Phoenix Force" sounds made up, unless you can point me to wear its been referenced in a book. Which I'd like to see.

[Phoenixx9]

But this doesn't discount that this is in fact the PF's power source. There hasn't been another panel starting this to be false, and it's being cited as true on websites.

And again, this was not Rachel in these panels. It was the Phoenix Force. In control of her body. Essentially akin to it wearing Jean's body. Rachel was dead and slowly being rebuilt by the Phoenix while it inhabited her body (to protect her child). She did not return to consciousness to several issues later when she took the mantle and power and the PF went dormant.

And this term "Pure Phoenix Force" sounds made up, unless you can point me to wear its been referenced in a book. Which I'd like to see.

The Phoenix Force can and does feed on stars when it needs to do that for power. But it is far less often than when bound to a human host, in this case Rachel. In the Wikepedia you site, it mentions this: "The Phoenix Force disrupts Galactus' feeding process and easily defeats him. Galactus accuses the Phoenix Force of hypocrisy and reveals to it that its existence in a corporeal state is sustained by robbing energy used to birth future generations. Realizing this to be true, the Phoenix vows to return to its prior existence of "touching all that is." It needed this energy while hosted by Rachel. This means The Phoenix Force goes back to its pure form, without a host.

The Pure Phoenix Force is just meant to be the Phoenix Force as the Cosmic Avatar that it is, without a human host.