Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Mercury]

My ideal take on this would be to reveal this is literally WHY Phoenix hosts exist. Jean discovers in the WHR that the Dominion & other similar forces have been TRYING to accelerate her transcendental ascension into the Phoenix, because as a multiversal entity existing across all time and space, there's an inevitable shift in perspective that accompanies that kind of existence. Put simply, Jean as Phoenix on that level simply is not going to care about the same things Jean the mortal does, and the big picture perspective on the state of the universe, and particularly the state of mutantkind & humanity, let alone individual beings....makes it a lot easier for the Dominion & other cosmic players to slip things past the Phoenix's defenses, especially if they're focused on mutantkind....because the framing of events, consequences, etc, on THAT kind of scale is bound to have the full transcendental Phoenix LESS likely to fight her enemies in defense of one single life, or even one single planet....with the same intensity that Jean the mortal in her first 100 years of existence would.

I'd go with the idea that that's what the Dominion's game is in terms of Jean. Trying to fasttrack her ascent to godhood in ways that leapfrog over ways a Jean pacing herself through her apotheosis might come up with to retain her human perspective alongside her broadened awareness.

Thus, I'd build to the idea that the reason the Phoenix 'shattered' - is because Jean did it HERSELF. It was done from the WHR, by Jean, as her loophole to the Dominion's agenda here. Because shattering her most transcended self in a way that forced the Phoenix to seek out mortal hosts throughout time & space and arrive at some kind of symbiosis with them....necessitates pairing the Phoenix's immortal omnipotence WITH a mortal perspective & emotions in the driver's seat. Which acts as a tether helping the transcendent Phoenix remember & reconnect with her own mortal beginnings & priorities, and helps pave the way for Phoenix work throughout time & space to be done without the mortal perspective being left out of the how and why of it all.

And having Jean understand and realize this, and BE the one to shatter herself in the WHR essentially pivots her character journey away from an endgoal that's impractical to ever arrive at from an out of universe perspective (Jean fully transcending as the Phoenix once and for all, her shattered essence restored to one omniversal being), to one where readers get the fulfillment of that storyline by reframing it as her character herself determining it not to be HER preferred endgoal. This, IMO, works out better for Jean both narratively and from a character perspective...she achieves clarity of identity and a full big picture view of her 'destiny' and takes control of it by shattering herself in order to create one that works better for her....one wherein she can continue to live her mortal life comfortably with her friends & family and retain her mortal perspective as long as possible, while being content that she's not denying the universe the important Phoenix work she feels she should be doing as the Phoenix....because that was the point of setting things up so the Phoenix Force has to work WITH mortal hosts. The work will continue, it just doesn't all have to be on her or her alone.

She's delegating, yes. But not without giving up her own seat at the superhero table in the here and now. She's the Phoenix. She can do it all.

And optimally, because I do prefer an eventual progression of all the mutant omegas to focus more on cosmic adventures and big picture universal threats rather than continuously getting nerfed the latest time Marvel wants to present some bigot with a gun or his pet robot as the ultimate unbeatable adversary, able to stump even planet-breakers with ease.....a Jean in her omega era, post-Shattering-herself-in-the-WHR storyline retains her awareness of how the WHR works, WHY she shattered herself, and thus is perfectly positioned to go to and from the WHR as needed and from its central point in existence peer across time and space and see where and when Phoenix work most needs doing, and like....search among the locals of that area/era for whom she thinks is the most suitable partner for one of her Phoenix fragments, steering events from the WHR so that she basically picks her own hosts for reasons that fit her current agendas and mortal perspective, before clocking out and going back home to her friends & family.

She doesn't ever permanently embrace the full state of existence as the Phoenix (at least not in the next 100 years from an in universe perspective, or ever, from ours) because she's unwilling to also embrace the perspective that would come with that, or what she'd lose in the process....but via this narrative mechanism, she doesn't HAVE to either, while still being able to assemble other aspects of herself, call upon other hosts from throughout time and space to help her defeat current threats, not unlike how Ewing had Thor call upon the Thor Corps in Immortal Thor. The Phoenix parts of all of them are still all Jean, and their hosts are all the people she personally handpicked to WORK with all those different pieces of herself.

And just like that, you render so much hubris, sardonicism, and negativity nothing. Also, per usual, you articulate what I thought I’d been saying for some time now better than I ever could. Moreover, I genuinely believe the powers and writers that be, specifically Simonson, Gillen, and Gage—and maybe Brevoort?—have done, are doing, and will continue to do with Jean something very close to what you have outlined above and what I've shared previously. And I think the impetus behind their efforts is not just that this—respecting and adhering to Claremont’s original vision for Jean—rights a specific wrong (the retcon) that should have been righted long ago but also aligns with what Kevin Feige and Co. have likely mandated.

Anyway, thank you for this beautifully written and thoughtful post!

[PhoenixStudies]

One of my takes has been that Jean's mortal life is essentially training, as she is a "baby Phoenix" as Death put it...the Danger Room to the WHR's "real world/out in the field"...there's a part in NXM when Jean is explaining the Phoenix to Logan, and she uses her progression with her telekinetic powers as an example...a few issues later, the "voice" in the WHR tells WpotC Jean, who is about to trim the timeline at a point that fixes it, that telekinetic control of all those atoms (the entire universe?) isn't as easy as it sounds in training. Her life/lives gain experience and perspective, and each "death" is essentially a data dump/save point into the WHR, including other Phoenix hosts (as seen in the teen Jean solo series). Each resurrection, a safeguard to make sure she still remains "always Jean" as well as always Phoenix

Love this! And I agree!

Also in Classic #43, right before she is sent back to life, Jean asks the cosmic construction worker, "who pays the price, while I'm in school?" So here life/physical reality is referred to as "school" similar to how it is referred to as "training" in New X-Men #154. And being split among Maddie and the cocoon body was part of a hard lesson she needed to learn.

Seems like her White Phoenix of the Crown self is her truest self. She is born/reborn as human/mutant Jean Grey to live and learn and to become a better Phoenix. It is her human compassion/empathy and depth of feeling that makes her a great Phoenix. And her omega level psychic powers is a part of her Phoenix power set.

Also love Mercury and Bobby's ideas expressed in this thread.

I do think Jean's connection to the Phoenix and the White Hot Room will be important in some way to the Dominion story, but not sure if Mother Righteous or a Dominion wants Jean to further ascend though. Do they want Jean to ascend or are they trying to stop Jean from ascending? Or using her process of ascending to further their goals in some way? Is Mother Righteous trying to become a Dominion or seeking one?

Personally, I'm happy they are exploring Jean's cosmic connections. Who would have thought we'd get stories in this era exploring/deepening Jean's connection to the White Hot Room?

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I wish the exploring entailed Jean being active. 4 issues of coma hallucinating retellings of old stories and 3 of gurgling sounds and sleeping. This style of storytelling is the same employed in Phoenix Resurrection, and it's dull from the standpoint of looking at Jean as a protagonist.

I want X-Men Forever firing on all cylinders, with explosions, revelations, and actual verbs.

[PhoenixStudies]

I share that frustration, actually.

But we did get some introspection in the Jean Grey solo. And here's hoping she is more whole (while likely also being wounded) in X-Men Forever.

Hopefully, Immortal #18 will be like a holiday present for us Jean fans. lol I expect her to still be discombobulated through most or all of it, but it should at least be interesting.

[Omega_DCD]

bobbysworld and omega_dcd for prez

Love this! And I agree!

Also in Classic #43, right before she is sent back to life, Jean asks the cosmic construction worker, "who pays the price, while I'm in school?" So here life/physical reality is referred to as "school" similar to how it is referred to as "training" in New X-Men #154. And being split among Maddie and the cocoon body was part of a hard lesson she needed to learn.

Seems like her White Phoenix of the Crown self is her truest self. She is born/reborn as human/mutant Jean Grey to live and learn and to become a better Phoenix. It is her human compassion/empathy and depth of feeling that makes her a great Phoenix. And her omega level psychic powers is a part of her Phoenix power set.

Also love Mercury and Bobby's ideas expressed in this thread.

I do think Jean's connection to the Phoenix and the White Hot Room will be important in some way to the Dominion story, but not sure if Mother Righteous or a Dominion wants Jean to further ascend though. Do they want Jean to ascend or are they trying to stop Jean from ascending? Or using her process of ascending to further their goals in some way? Is Mother Righteous trying to become a Dominion or seeking one?

Personally, I'm happy they are exploring Jean's cosmic connections. Who would have thought we'd get stories in this era exploring/deepening Jean's connection to the White Hot Room?

Thank you guys, and others for your POVs! Good call on the other "school" reference from Classic X-Men #43.

[The Thunderbird]

All this speculating about what's going to happen to Jean next week and the coming months is getting real distracting. So all I'm going to say is this. I hope that we get to see real progress next week and Jean awakens from her stupor and also if she and the rest of the mutants don't escape outright from the White Hot Room then the seeds for such an event should be at least planted. In the meantime I think I'm going to check out until next Wednesday. Happy holidays!

[Thirteen]

The Jean Grey leaked image from the new Wolverine game looks...rough...

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

^I haven't seen anything like that image anywhere else, but assuming that is from the game, I am of two minds about it. On one hand, that costume looks kinda bad, but on the other hand, her head looks like a Jean head, and I was really worried about that after seeing the character concept art that leaked. It appears that they are trying to make the costume look like armor. There's an undeniable practicality to it since she's not exactly Logan when it comes to taking physical damage, but I am not in love with the design. However, I think they can make it look good with tweaks, so I am not worried about it, and I wouldn't be even if the game was coming out in the next two months. They have a year and then some to work on skins.

There's some Sophie in her face, for sure, which I like.

[Micabe]

Love this! And I agree!

Also in Classic #43, right before she is sent back to life, Jean asks the cosmic construction worker, "who pays the price, while I'm in school?" So here life/physical reality is referred to as "school" similar to how it is referred to as "training" in New X-Men #154. And being split among Maddie and the cocoon body was part of a hard lesson she needed to learn.

Seems like her White Phoenix of the Crown self is her truest self. She is born/reborn as human/mutant Jean Grey to live and learn and to become a better Phoenix. It is her human compassion/empathy and depth of feeling that makes her a great Phoenix. And her omega level psychic powers is a part of her Phoenix power set.

Also love Mercury and Bobby's ideas expressed in this thread.

I do think Jean's connection to the Phoenix and the White Hot Room will be important in some way to the Dominion story, but not sure if Mother Righteous or a Dominion wants Jean to further ascend though. Do they want Jean to ascend or are they trying to stop Jean from ascending? Or using her process of ascending to further their goals in some way? Is Mother Righteous trying to become a Dominion or seeking one?

Personally, I'm happy they are exploring Jean's cosmic connections. Who would have thought we'd get stories in this era exploring/deepening Jean's connection to the White Hot Room?

I need a moment of your expertise PhoenixStudies... I have been searching high and low for any canonical issue(s), from any X-Title that mentions, references, and or specifically, and definitively states that Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown as I am sure there has to be at least one but is simply eluding me, thanks

[Wiccan]

I need a moment of your expertise PhoenixStudies... I have been searching high and low for any canonical issue(s), from any X-Title that mentions, references, and or specifically, and definitively states that Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown as I am sure there has to be at least one but is simply eluding me, thanks

Marvel wiki says it's on Phoenix Endsong #5. And it's probably somewhere in the Here Comes Tomorrow arc too, since that's where White Phoenix first showed up (besides that all white version in Classic X-Men).

[Thirteen]

I need a moment of your expertise PhoenixStudies... I have been searching high and low for any canonical issue(s), from any X-Title that mentions, references, and or specifically, and definitively states that Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown as I am sure there has to be at least one but is simply eluding me, thanks

Marvel wiki says it's on Phoenix Endsong #5. And it's probably somewhere in the Here Comes Tomorrow arc too, since that's where White Phoenix first showed up (besides that all white version in Classic X-Men).

NEW X-MEN #154 by Morrison and Silvestri (so indeed "Here Comes Tomorrow") is the first mention. That and more explored in CBR's own article on the White Phoenix of the Crown.

[Micabe]

NEW X-MEN #154 by Morrison and Silvestri (so indeed "Here Comes Tomorrow") is the first mention. That and more explored in CBR's own article on the White Phoenix of the Crown.

Okay, thanks... I somehow block out ever reading that story arc. But now that you've reminded me do you know if it was ever revealed who or what was doing the talking in the black speak bubbles?

[PhoenixStudies]

I need a moment of your expertise PhoenixStudies... I have been searching high and low for any canonical issue(s), from any X-Title that mentions, references, and or specifically, and definitively states that Jean Grey is the White Phoenix of the Crown as I am sure there has to be at least one but is simply eluding me, thanks

Marvel wiki says it's on Phoenix Endsong #5. And it's probably somewhere in the Here Comes Tomorrow arc too, since that's where White Phoenix first showed up (besides that all white version in Classic X-Men).

NEW X-MEN #154 by Morrison and Silvestri (so indeed "Here Comes Tomorrow") is the first mention. That and more explored in CBR's own article on the White Phoenix of the Crown.

Yes, New X-Men 154 is the first use of the phrase/title "White Phoenix of the Crown", but the Classic X-Men #43 backstory is her first appearance as White Phoenix (she even mentions her three phases of Phoenix: green, red, and white). The costume was miscolored as all white but it was suppose to be white and gold and is colored as such when Jean relives moments from the Classic 43 story in X-Men Forever (2001) #3. The white/gold Phoenix costume is based on an early Cockrum design (it included a cape) before they went with green and gold.

Jean's White Phoenix appearances in chronological order...

Classic X-Men #43 backstory (1990). Jean meets the cosmic construction worker.

X-Men Forever #3 (2001). Jean is sent back in time and revisits her conversation with the cosmic construction worker and he gives her additional information.

New X-Men #154 (2004). Jean disinfects a dystopian future of Sublime and creates a new future by pushing Scott to stay with Emma.

Phoenix Endsong #5 (2005). The X-Men's love allows Jean to be balanced and become White Phoenix. She sustains the X-Men through an event horizon and fades back to the White Hot Room.

Wolverine vol 4 #8 (2011). A part of Jean in White Phoenix form appears to Wolverine and saves him from demons.

Nightcrawler #10 (2015) Jean as White Phoenix appears on one page in the "way station" between life and death as Amanda is dying.

Uncanny X-Men #140.5 (2020). Shows that Jean as White Phoenix helped Rachel during the Days of Future Past story.

She has also appeared as White Phoenix in some non-canon stories: What If: Rise and Fall of the Shiar Empire (2007) (appears at the end in a White Phoenix gown and helps Vulcan), What If: Avengers v. X-Men (2013) (Jean appears as White Phoenix and talks to Logan before healing the world) , X-Men: 100th Anniversary (2014) (Jean as White Phoenix appears to an alternate reality Scott to stop him from being president and gives him a better future).

[Of course due to the nature of the White Hot Room being outside of time/space, these appearances could very well have been our 616 Jean but we don't know for sure.]

There are also several Wolverine appearances where a part of Jean Grey appears from the great beyond wearing a plain white gown or appearing as a white ghostly apparition. In one she mentions how she left a part of her self at the doorway to the afterlife. Another time she mentions how time is not linear to those like her or Logan.

Ghostly Jean/Phoenix also ushered the Greys into the White Hot Room at the end of the End of Greys storyline in Uncanny X-Men #468.

[Micabe]

Yes, New X-Men 154 is the first use of the phrase/title "White Phoenix of the Crown", but the Classic X-Men #43 backstory is her first appearance as White Phoenix (she even mentions her three phases of Phoenix: green, red, and white). The costume was miscolored as all white but it was suppose to be white and gold and is colored as such when Jean relives moments from the Classic 43 story in X-Men Forever (2001) #3. The white/gold Phoenix costume is based on an early Cockrum design (it included a cape) before they went with green and gold.

Jean's White Phoenix appearances in chronological order...

Classic X-Men #43 backstory (1990). Jean meets the cosmic construction worker.

X-Men Forever #3 (2001). Jean is sent back in time and revisits her conversation with the cosmic construction worker and he gives her additional information.

New X-Men #154 (2004). Jean disinfects a dystopian future of Sublime and creates a new future by pushing Scott to stay with Emma.

Phoenix Endsong #5 (2005). The X-Men's love allows Jean to be balanced and become White Phoenix. She sustains the X-Men through an event horizon and fades back to the White Hot Room.

Wolverine vol 4 #8 (2011). A part of Jean in White Phoenix form appears to Wolverine and saves him from demons.

Nightcrawler #10 (2015) Jean as White Phoenix appears on one page in the "way station" between life and death as Amanda is dying.

Uncanny X-Men #140.5 (2020) Shows that Jean as White Phoenix helped Rachel during the Days of Future Past story.

No, Marvel Made Paragon Collection: Chris Claremont Bundle does not count as being canon, sorry.

She has also appeared as White Phoenix in some non-canon stories: What If: Rise and Fall of the Shiar Empire (2007) (appears at the end in a White Phoenix gown and helps Vulcan), What If: Avengers v. X-Men (2013) (Jean appears as White Phoenix and talks to Logan before healing the world) , X-Men: 100th Anniversary (2014) (Jean as White Phoenix appears to an alternate reality Scott to stop him from being president and gives him a better future).

[Of course due to the nature of the White Hot Room being outside of time/space, these appearances could very well have been our 616 Jean but we don't know for sure.]

There are also several Wolverine appearances where a part of Jean Grey appears from the great beyond wearing a plain white gown or appearing as a white ghostly apparition. In one she mentions how she left a part of her self at the doorway to the afterlife. Another time she mentions how time is not linear to those like her or Logan.

Ghostly Jean/Phoenix also ushered the Greys into the White Hot Room at the end of the End of Greys storyline in Uncanny X-Men #468.]

Thanks, and yes, Jean's Phoenix unitard was depicted as White in Classic X-Men #43 but, Jean questioned why her costume had changed colors while categorically listing them as Green, Red, and White in so many words which is, ironically, where Morrison got the idea and then shamelessly proclaimed that he brought Phoenix back even though Jean had already reclaimed the Phoenix moniker and manifested her iconic energy signature back in 1998...

Uncanny X-Men #354 (1998)


Uncanny X-Men #355 (1998)

Classic X-Men #43 (1990) made no mention of a crown or title of any kind and everything WPoTC-related happened after X-Men Forever #3 (2001) three years later during Morrison's run in 2004 which is exactly six years after Jean had already reclaimed her destiny.

Uncanny X-Men #354
Uncanny X-Men #355

[Exodus]

So, how many years has Jean used the iconography of the Phoenix Force then in her 60 years of comicbook history?

From 1979 till 1980 (Uncanny X-Men 101 till 138; Dark Phoenix Saga)

and then again:

From 1998 till 2005.

That reminds me and explains to me why I prefer Jean as Phoenix....the later ones are the years when I got into comicbooks...

I also remember that Onslaught already implied in 1996 that the Phoenix Force grew out of Jean's mind when he first appeared.