Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

^Emphasis on the epic. They tend to minimize Jean in a way that isn't as bombastic as the character could be. Definitely that spoilers:

figure from her

end of spoilers past and that line spoilers:

of dialogue

end of spoilers were interesting. I hope they mean something big and lasting.

[Mercury]

I'm definitely interested in X-men Forever and it is going to be a long wait - I wonder if we have to wait until then to see the direct follow up to tomorrow's issue. I hope Immortal X-men 18 will generate a lot of interesting discussion. I am excited for the issue to release.

I love that Gillen understands Jean and he has a good grasp on her history. They have had Jean on a trajectory of reckoning with her past -especially as the Phoenix is concerned and I hope we get a great payoff.

I want to see Jean help the X-men take on the Dominion or even Orchis. I'm excited for the Fall of X to enter the next phase. We've seen the mutants at their lowest and soon it will be time to watch them fight back in a big way. They never quite do what we expect or want them to but I do hope for something memorable and epic out of the current story.

I'm interested to see where they take Jean next. I wonder how long we'll have to wait to see her reunite with Scott, etc. Should be interesting!

I was just chatting with another fan about this on Twitter. Here’s our exchange:

Fan: Now she’s just a mindless puppet meant only to suffer so that the story can continue, and that does not give me hope for what is to come. They said that she would be important during Fall of X, but she’s just been dead since July & will probably still be dead until X-Men Forever

Me: Aw, love. 🥹 Reach into her history! Gillen is playing with notes from her periods in stasis, preceding her returns both in X-Factor and New X-Men. He’s slow-burning her return for various reasons, both to generate anticipation and give her history and reemergence their due. Also, her solo proved that she isn't “a mindless puppet.” She's been caught midway through the process of her self-imposed resurrection, much like Sublime/Dark Beast caught her in Here Comes Tomorrow, though now, she is not as far along as she was then.

Fan: She’s being led through the desert on a leash and MR is quite literally taking stabs at her and she can’t do anything to defend herself 😭💀 I’m not ignorant to what he’s been doing since Immortal #17, but that still does not make it exciting to me 🤷🏾*♂️

Me: I understand. But I love the drama and her seeming helplessness, especially because we know better from reading her solo. Besides, heroes are not defined by what they can easily defeat; rather, they are defined by what they struggle to overcome and succeed in transcending.

While I get the impatience and apprehension of some fans, in light of how much Jean’s been elevated, spotlighted, and had key moments from her entire history revisited and underscored—including her identity as Phoenix and White Phoenix—I also don't get it? As noted above, Gillen, with Simonson’s help, is definitely slow-burning her return, but I think it's clear he's doing so in service of a more impactful climax. I remember when certain fans tried convincing me that the Progenitor’s declaration during Judgement Day—”You are Phoenix, now and forever”—coupled with Jean’s fiery display and Tony’s suspicion—”I thought she wasn’t the Phoenix anymore”—meant nothing. And that Jean referring to the Phoenix in the third person, instead of the first, was proof the powers that be were keeping them separate, which, of course, is so dismissive of Jean as a character and her own complex and contradictory feelings regarding her identity. So much hubris and wasted discourse. (Don’t even get me started on the discourses about the green dress, which some were so certain would plague her and them forever!)

And yet, now, here we are…

“Jean’s connected to the White Hot Room, which is basically the Phoenix. Anytime she's dead, she’s there. Out of time. She is from the Phoenix in a real and unbreakable way. She guides it, and it guides her, in a circle without beginning or end. It's some gnomic stuff. Very inspiring and very, very woo.”

Of course, you will still get questions: “If this is true, why did she need to be brought back using the resurrection protocols?” and “Why did she not manifest Phoenix sooner?” and “Why isn't she manifesting Phoenix now?” and yadda, yadda, yadda. As if these questions haven't been answered, both explicitly and implicitly. As if her fear, guilt, and trauma-induced self-denial makes no sense or, worse yet, is something to ridicule and dismiss.

Most of us should know by now—that is, those of us who care about her in her entirety and not just about aspects of her we’ve fetishized—that her story and the myriad facets of her character are not designed for quick resolutions and easy payoffs. Gillen is taking his time and reveling in revealing both her story and facets, and I love that for him and her.

[MythicalChicken]

I just read it, and I’m still digesting on the layers to it but my knee jerk reaction was how much I’m gonna miss this era of X-Men.

[PhoenixStudies]

Overall this era has been great for Jean (and my other fave, Storm). I don't understand the negativity, especially from some on Twitter who were negative about the Jean Grey solo as well!

Simonson's Jean Grey was quite superior to Phoenix Endsong and Phoenix Resurrection, imho (although they had good moments too). I looked over all three in chronological order the other night.

Sure Jean is being used and abused right now by Mother Righteous, but we know that's not the end of the story (hey, Jean said so herself on the last page of Jean Grey #4).

Besides, spoilers:

Jean dying or being seriously wounded while in the White Hot Room is a new type of death or experience for her. It should be interesting to see how she recovers. And the fact that her blood is used to create a god like being in the White Hot Room is super cool and exciting! And we have the most explicit summation of Jean's connection to the Phoenix and the White Hot Room in years. And it was very much needed after her disavowal in Resurrection.

end of spoilers

Both Simonson and Gillen have shed light on how creation takes place in the White Hot Room and Jean's role in that and I think that is really neat.

Jean had really good characterization in her solo, and I'm sure she will get more character beats as this story goes along.

Some are worried that Gillen will just use her as a plot device, but he did a great job with her in A.X.E. so I don't think that worry is warranted.

[MythicalChicken]

Overall this era has been great for Jean (and my other fave, Storm). I don't understand the negativity, especially from some on Twitter who were negative about the Jean Grey solo as well!

Simonson's Jean Grey was quite superior to Phoenix Endsong and Phoenix Resurrection, imho (although they had good moments too). I looked over all three in chronological order the other night.

Sure Jean is being used and abused right now by Mother Righteous, but we know that's not the end of the story (hey, Jean said so herself on the last page of Jean Grey #4).

Besides, spoilers:

Jean dying or being seriously wounded while in the White Hot Room is a new type of death or experience for her. It should be interesting to see how she recovers. And the fact that her blood is used to create a god like being in the White Hot Room is super cool and exciting! And we have the most explicit summation of Jean's connection to the Phoenix and the White Hot Room in years. And it was very much needed after her disavowal in Resurrection.

end of spoilers

Both Simonson and Gillen have shed light on how creation takes place in the White Hot Room and Jean's role in that and I think that is really neat.

Jean had really good characterization in her solo, and I'm sure she will get more character beats as this story goes along.

Some are worried that Gillen will just use her as a plot device, but he did a great job with her in A.X.E. so I don't think that worry is warranted.

If anything, he’s distinguishing the difference between jean as a plot device, and jean as as a character.

[Icefanatic]

For anyone pondering why the Phoenix was purple in the Original X-Men one-shot, it probably wasn't chosen at random:

https://www.mayimachronim.com/colours-of-the-sefirot/

Among other things, blue is associated with water, which is in turn associated with life. In Kabbalah, blue is one of the colours of Chessed, lovingkindness. Red is its polar opposite, the colour of blood and fire, representing Gevurah, judgement and severity. Combining red and blue gives purple, the balance between them, Tiferet, seat of truth and beauty. On a mystical level, the purple argaman (ארגמן) also represents the chief angels Uriel (אוריאל), Raphael (רפאל), Gabriel (גבריאל), Michael (מיכאל), and Nuriel (נוריאל).

...the colours of the three key Sefirot of Chessed, Gevurah, and Tiferet appear to be blue, red, and purple, respectively.

...The Ramak then says that Tiferet must be, as expected, a blend of Chessed and Gevurah, so a mix of white and red, or blue and red. This might suggest pink or purple, and the Ramak notes the connection to argaman. He also suggests the possibility that it is yellow, like the yolk of an egg. Alternatively, he cites Rabbi Shimon bar Yochai as teaching that Tiferet is green (as the Zohar says, for instance at III, 257a, Ra’aya Mehemna). When we look at the colour spectrum, green actually makes sense. The reds are on the left end (left being Gevurah), and the blues are on the right end (right being Chessed). In the middle lies green, just as Tiferet lies in the middle between Chessed and Gevurah.

Given Jean's usual pallet of red and green as Phoenix, the other unifying color would have been brown. Purple was definitely a better choice...

[Mercury]

For anyone pondering why the Phoenix was purple in the Original X-Men one-shot, it probably wasn't chosen at random:

https://www.mayimachronim.com/colours-of-the-sefirot/

Given Jean's usual pallet of red and green as Phoenix, the other unifying color would have been brown. Purple was definitely a better choice...

Also, according to Marvel, White Phoenix represents “the perfect synthesis between the Phoenix Force and Jean,” and since white contains and reflects all colors of the spectrum, it makes sense that Jean would manifest Phoenix in an infinite amount of colors, reflected in a given uniform.

[Icefanatic]

Also, according to Marvel, White Phoenix represents “the perfect synthesis between the Phoenix Force and Jean,” and since white contains and reflects all colors of the spectrum, it makes sense that Jean would manifest Phoenix in an infinite amount of colors, reflected in a given uniform.

Yep. It makes me think of the 'emotional spectrum' DC now uses for its Lanterns. I think people would be less resistant to it if they were not afraid it would devolve into a gimmick, with some assuming it already has.

[Omega_DCD]

Enjoyed the issue...and as per Reddit, I'm gonna have to re-read Defenders and Defenders Beyond...lots of nuggets there now coming to fruition

Regarding this issue and the WHR: spoilers:

is the fact that only mutants may enter a new characteristic? I thought it was the afterlife for all beings, represented by their individual beliefs. What about the people of D'Bari? Or the Termid species (deemed genetically obsolete)? Or is there a difference between who may physically enter, as opposed to just one's soul/consciousness being absorbed into it? Just a curiosity in the lore building of the WHR.

end of spoilers

[brightnessatmidnight]

How much of this arc is driven by the AI fueled creativity angst of the last year?

spoilers:

Jean, her blood and passion, and the sacredness of the "empty page" WHR (along with the organicism of Krakoa) being sacrificed to empower the consumptive, re-gurgitive "Digital God"/Enigma is clearly a metaphor. Jean's crucifix pose of the cover was also telling.

end of spoilers

[MechaJeanix]

Now that we can talk about the issue.. spoiler warning below:

There is a lot that I liked about the issue. I will first start with the cameo from the cosmic construction worker. We last saw him with a redesign in Defenders Beyond. He first appeared in Classic X-men 43, appeared in Excalibur and talked to Rachel (Phoenix Studies or Mercury may be able to provide an issue number), and appeared in 2000 in the X-men Forever mini where Jean relived parts of the Classic 43 issue. Has he had any other appearances?

I loved that Gillen understands Jean's connection to the Phoenix - and that Jean was used by MR to create the dominion. I also liked that MR said she knew a lot about Jean and cited prodding a Phoenix Egg in the Sinister reality from Sins of Sinister.

These last two issues of Immortal and the Jean Grey mini have been a treat. Now on to X-men Forever where we'll see Jean hopefully awake and fully realized and see how this all plays out. I am having some flashbacks of Here Comes Tomorrow and how exciting that was when it came out.

[Omega_DCD]

Now that we can talk about the issue.. spoiler warning below:

There is a lot that I liked about the issue. I will first start with the cameo from the cosmic construction worker. We last saw him with a redesign in Defenders Beyond. He first appeared in Classic X-men 43, appeared in Excalibur and talked to Rachel (Phoenix Studies or Mercury may be able to provide an issue number), and appeared in 2000 in the X-men Forever mini where Jean relived parts of the Classic 43 issue. Has he had any other appearances?

I loved that Gillen understands Jean's connection to the Phoenix - and that Jean was used by MR to create the dominion. I also liked that MR said she knew a lot about Jean and cited prodding a Phoenix Egg in the Sinister reality from Sins of Sinister.

These last two issues of Immortal and the Jean Grey mini have been a treat. Now on to X-men Forever where we'll see Jean hopefully awake and fully realized and see how this all plays out. I am having some flashbacks of Here Comes Tomorrow and how exciting that was when it came out.

Rachel met with Death/Construction worker in Excalibur #25 and Excalibur #63 of the top of my head

[MechaJeanix]

Rachel met with Death/Construction worker in Excalibur #25 and Excalibur #63 of the top of my head

Awesome, thank you!

[Portsian]

Much as I love Jean and Phoenix, I hope that Jean as Phoenix or with Phoenix doesn’t just become a plot device to “right the wrongs”. To be honest I have no idea what Dominion is, though I am intrigued, but the Orchis stuff just bores me.

I wanna see a powerful resolution to it, but no some kind of deux et machina type thing (if that’s the right expression).

[SugarMan]

Enjoyed the issue...and as per Reddit, I'm gonna have to re-read Defenders and Defenders Beyond...lots of nuggets there now coming to fruition

Regarding this issue and the WHR: spoilers:

is the fact that only mutants may enter a new characteristic? I thought it was the afterlife for all beings, represented by their individual beliefs. What about the people of D'Bari? Or the Termid species (deemed genetically obsolete)? Or is there a difference between who may physically enter, as opposed to just one's soul/consciousness being absorbed into it? Just a curiosity in the lore building of the WHR.

end of spoilers

I thought it was a reference to using the gate to get there, but not sure about that.

She is from the Phoenix in a real and unbreakable way. She guides it, and it guides her, in a circle without beginning or end.

It's like Jean is basically the Phoenix's Phoenix. Chicken and egg.