Jean Grey / Phoenix Appreciation 2023: “A Red Dragon”

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

In an attempt to answer your rhetorical question:

Plot-wise: Jean got her wish of not being dead in her future and dealing with the outcome of a proposed “evil” Cyclops. She learned control of her powers and had made an impact in the world she arrived at in the absence of her adult self.

Character-wise: Jean learned to appreciate the legacy she had left behind, realizing that behind the “Saint Jean Grey” image the X-Men proposed on her, there was a real, genuine person. One just as irritating, hot-tempered, impulsive, and passionate as herself. Her adult self’s resurrection made it easier to accept, I will grant. But young Jean at the beginning hated every bit of how her life turned out. By the end, she has more understanding why things are the way they are. (Pre-Hickman of course)

Yes, Teen Jean learned why Adult Jean was who she was throughout the Teen arc. Presumably, Adult Jean already knew how to control her powers and who she was before the Bendis story.

[WhiteHotRoom]

I was just reading all the terrible takes Tom Brevoort has on Jean. Do we think he's going to kill her again?

[The Thunderbird]

I was just reading all the terrible takes Tom Brevoort has on Jean. Do we think he's going to kill her again?

I think a lot of those takes are a result of impatient Jean fans hounding him on when she will come back honestly.

[mike7171]

My take on the Jean Grey in chains, is the whole idea of Jean denying that she and Phoenix are truly one. Her denial was displayed on AXE and Progenitor made her realize it. Teen Jean rejected the Phoenix. Adult jean rejected the phoenix at her resurrection, that's why the Phoenix was lost. This whole denial/rejection is what's making Jean technically "incomplete", making the dominion inaccessible.

Once Jean accepts that she and Phoenix are one and the same, then the whole "collecting all the pieces" will be complete, the universe needs WPOTC to be born.

Morrison's Jean was already showing that Jean/Phoenix were already in the process of co-existing, that co-existence is the 1st step to making them one/whole.

Hahaha.

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I was just reading all the terrible takes Tom Brevoort has on Jean. Do we think he's going to kill her again?

It's not impossible. Imagine it's your job to do what you think is cool with the X-Men. If you're a fanatic, it's probably hard not to put characters that irk you in their place lol. As a creative, part of it is making things you are interested in. Jean probably doesn't fit the bill as "interesting" to him. She'll need a writer advocate to really pull for her. That's if she doesn't just get unalived. I think he prefers Cyke shipped with the nice girl (barf) as opposed to Emma's edgy, though, if that brings any relief lol.

[Mercury]

Brevoort has been clear regarding his opinion on “Scemma”: He just didn't buy the pairing. Many people didn't, especially considering Emma’s villainous history and—no pun intended—its whitewashing, along with the fact that Jean as White Phoenix was responsible for transforming the two’s psychosexual, trauma-based affair into an actual romantic pairing. The latter was somewhat bolstered by Emma’s own insecurities—including about Jean—becoming intermittently apparent, which also might speak to how other writers considered the couple and Emma herself. Without an ounce of self-awareness regarding her perpetrations against Jean, Emma would disparage her and even considered killing an adolescent—Hope—she thought to be her. Add to that her own mistrust of Scott, who was able to keep his most guarded thoughts private due to Jean teaching him how to create a “psychic black box” when Emma demanded “no secrets”—let’s not even get into the affair with Namor or the perpetrations against time-displaced Scott—and it’s easy to see why some considered and still consider the romantic link between the two tenuous at best.

To be clear, I don't frown upon Scemma because I have a deep affinity for Jean and Scott’s relationship; everyone should know that by now. Rather, I just didn't and don't buy large swathes of what constitutes Emma’s redemption arc, particularly her pairing with Scott, which was initiated by exploiting the symbol and outcome of Jean’s own abuse and trauma—Dark Phoenix—as a kink for male arousal. As for Emma’s overall history, it always felt choppy and inconsistent to me. One minute she was facilitating and enacting abuse, trauma, and even rape against adults and adolescents all in the name of enlarging an organization, or “club,” based on antebellum ideals, notions, and aesthetics, and the next minute she wasn't. And while she has certainly shown remorse and empathy since her villainous days, she's never been made to truly face or pay for her crimes the way someone like Jean, or even Magneto, has. Add to that the fact that affluence and mean-spirited elitisim have never struck me as qualities to admire—in fact, they usually repulse me—and her pairing with Scott leaves me cold. That said, I did go through a period when I felt and thought, “They deserve each other,” as a pejorative, of course. However, I’m much more forgiving of both of them now.

[davetvs]

She's hot. She's kinky. She's the opposite of his wife and he doesn't have to live up to any idealized image of himself to be with her, which made perfect sense considering what Scott had been through at the time and the darker path his character would take in the following years. I don't think it's that hard to get, "not buying" Emma's redemption arc just sounds like personal bias against the character I mean it's been like 30 years.

[Grinning Soul]

When was AvX? Scott and Emma haven't been together for what? 10 years now?

This is Jean's appreciation thread. Can we focus on her, please?

[Mercury]

She's hot. She's kinky. She's the opposite of his wife and he doesn't have to live up to any idealized image of himself to be with her, which made perfect sense considering what Scott had been through at the time and the darker path his character would take in the following years. I don't think it's that hard to get, "not buying" Emma's redemption arc just sounds like personal bias against the character I mean it's been like 30 years.

This seems to be the easier narrative for some to promulgate and digest. Of course, I have one major problem with it: It minimizes, if not downright ignores, Jean’s role as a victim, which normalizes what Mastermind did and encourages a blame-the-victim stance—a stance women have been blighted by and have had to grapple with for centuries—albeit unintentionally so.

[Mercury]

When was AvX? Scott and Emma haven't been together for what? 10 years now?

This is Jean's appreciation thread. Can we focus on her, please?

My apologies. Kitty’s tendency to misframe what's been clearly established and oversimplify the complex got to me again.

[Grinning Soul]

My apologies. Kitty’s tendency to misframe what's been clearly established and oversimplify the complex got to me again.

Been there, done that too. It's all right.

--

Let's, please, keep the thread about Jean? We don't need to be attacking any other characters to love our girl. :)

EDITED: even when we don't intend to "attack" a character, it may be perceived as such by their fans. What do we gain from that? A derailed thread again...

[Kitty&Piotr<3]

I didn't misframe anything. Probably never have.

[MechaJeanix]

I for one loved the Teen Jean Bendis era. I do think it may have ran on for too long, but it is what brought me back to the X-men. I had stopped reading and hardly even followed up after my disgust over AvX and the Phoenix Five. It did add to Jean's overall story and I am glad for it. At least it brought the character back and she was a main character through that era. There are many things I loved about that era- Jean being a leader, being powerful, and seeing her do things separate from Cyclops, etc.

I liked that she wasn't perfect or a saintly version of the character. It was a real treat to see Simonson use Teen Jean in Jean Grey #1. I liked that Teen Jean often used her powers in ways that made others uncomfortable. Telepaths should make others uncomfortable.

I loved Hopeless' version of Teen Jean, and Ghost Jean will always be a favorite. I know some here didn't like her, but again it was a Jean that had some edge in her attitude and was desperately trying to save her Teen self and making tough and questionable choices.

[davetvs]

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated the Teen O5 being in the present. It would've been cute for a storyline or two but it dragged on far, far, far too long. To be honest, the prominence of Jeen during that era felt like a slap in the face to her fans. The only thing about it I liked was the Jeen solo, it was really well done and I was glad to see that era end with the return of Adult Jean. There, I said something nice.

[Exodus]

I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaated the Teen O5 being in the present. It would've been cute for a storyline or two but it dragged on far, far, far too long. To be honest, the prominence of Jeen during that era felt like a slap in the face to her fans. The only thing about it I liked was the Jeen solo, it was really well done and I was glad to see that era end with the return of Adult Jean. There, I said something nice.

SAME!! that is 100 percent also what I feel about this era. I enjoyed the Jean Grey mini for what it was. But it felt like such a big editorial mistake to bring a "jean grey ghost" into the storyline just a short moment before bringing her back AGAIN during "Phoenix: Resurrection". It really downplayed her return in such a big way.

I still believe they should've revealed that Hope was indeed Jean Grey in AvX: the moment Hope merged with the Phoenix, the real adult Jean Grey should have returned. She would have used then the Phoenix Force to split it in million little pieces in order to re-spark the mutant gene in million individuals saying goodbye to the Phoenix Force and bringing mutantkind back to life. End of story!