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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I don’t read contemporary X-Men because the Krakoa thing is just so out of character for the X-Men. I’m hoping that era ends this summer for the 60th anniversary.
    I don't think it will but then again, Fall of X is on the horizon. Frankly, I love the current era and think it has a lot of still-untapped potential.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    Is White Phoenix a Grant Morrison thing? That’s another era I skipped (just like the Hickman stuff) because it’s not what I want in an X-Men comic. Cyclops cheating on Jean just infuriates me, and then Morrison killing off Jean and Marvel keeping her dead for over a decade…ugh!!
    White Phoenix was actually conceived by Chris Claremont in the Classic X-Men #43 (1990) backstory, "Flight of Angels."

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    Did the White Queen ever get her comeuppance for destroying Jean’s marriage? Is there an issue where she pays for what she did?
    Emma has never really paid for any of her crimes. However, she has expressed her respect and admiration for Jean, including last year in X-Men: Hellfire Gala #1 and Immortal X-Men #4, and the two are on amicable terms:







    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Wasn't she shattered in diamond form not long after?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jackraow21 View Post
    This is a very cool theory…

    X-Men Theory Finally Explains Jean Grey's Tie To The Phoenix
    https://screenrant.com/xmen-jean-gre...ion-explained/
    Oh, damn. They cited my recent tweet! You gotta love it!
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  2. #32
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
    Gorgeous. Thanks for sharing! I really adore her nw costume when drawn exactly how Dauterman intended it to look like
    You're welcome, love! I love how Kitty referred to her when putting down Shaw. :chef's kiss"
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  3. #33
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Definitely, lol.



    I love your double-splash page idea. That would've been great. And we love that you're "such a nerd." It makes you utterly endearing. ��



    Remember, Jean is speaking from a place of dissociation. She is still rejecting her birthright as Phoenix. And I prefer Phoenix as the force that contains both light and dark. Only the One Above All transcends her! mwahahahahaha!
    Thanks, lol. Although, I think the top spots may have been taken from Jean and the One Above All now that The Beyonder went "further beyond" and came to our reality in Al Ewing's Defenders: Beyond series. I guess we'll have to wait and see what he can do after he comes back now that he knows he is a comic book character and that the rules probably don't apply to him anymore the way it does the One Above All. But one thing is for certain...it ain't going to be good, especially if he starts acting like Deadpool.
    Last edited by CaptainUniverse; 01-02-2023 at 11:25 AM.
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  4. #34
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    Thanks, lol. Although, I think the top spots may have been taken from Jean and the One Above All now that The Beyonder went "further beyond" and came to our reality in Al Ewing's Defenders: Beyond series. I guess we'll have to wait and see what he can do after he comes back now that he knows he is a comic book character and that the rules probably don't apply to him anymore the way it does the One Above All.
    I'll make a point of reading the series today and sharing my thoughts. I've only read issue #3. Nevertheless, I maintain that Phoenix is a mystery and take others' views and experiences of her with a grain of salt. Phoenix acts in accordance with what is needed at any given moment. She chooses to be humble and subservient, concealing her true power, or displays with aplomb her omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence, depending on the circumstances. Being "a primal force second only to that of the Creator" (see UXM #137), She is a mystery, as she should be.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I don't think it will but then again, Fall of X is on the horizon. Frankly, I love the current era and think it has a lot of still-untapped potential.



    White Phoenix was actually conceived by Chris Claremont in the Classic X-Men #43 (1990) backstory, "Flight of Angels."



    Emma has never really paid for any of her crimes. However, she has expressed her respect and admiration for Jean, including last year in X-Men: Hellfire Gala #1 and Immortal X-Men #4, and the two are on amicable terms:











    Oh, damn. They cited my recent tweet! You gotta love it!
    Thanks for the info. I’ll have to read Classic X-Men again. I’ve only read it once.

    The Krakoa era is why I’ve only had X-Men Legends and Claremont’s flashback miniseries to read for the past few years. I hope the sixtieth anniversary restores a more traditional status quo.

    I don’t like that things are ok between Jean and Emma, but it’s very in character of Jean to be forgiving. Emma, however, should be catty towards Jean and envious of her. The closest Emma has ever paid was when her Hellions were killed. I even liked her in Generation X, but coming between Jean and Scott completely ruined her for me. I would love to see Sage be the one to cut her down to size.

  6. #36
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    Thanks for the info. I’ll have to read Classic X-Men again. I’ve only read it once.

    The Krakoa era is why I’ve only had X-Men Legends and Claremont’s flashback miniseries to read for the past few years. I hope the sixtieth anniversary restores a more traditional status quo.
    I would give the current X-Men series penned by Gerry Duggan a shot. Actually, read X-Men, X-Men: Red, and Immortal X-Men. You might find you enjoy them.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I don’t like that things are ok between Jean and Emma, but it’s very in character of Jean to be forgiving. Emma, however, should be catty towards Jean and envious of her. The closest Emma has ever paid was when her Hellions were killed. I even liked her in Generation X, but coming between Jean and Scott completely ruined her for me. I would love to see Sage be the one to cut her down to size.
    Frankly, I'm glad the current writers are leaning into Bendis' development of Jean and Emma's relationship. The cattiness gets old and boring, and I would much rather see these two continue to grow and maybe even get to a point where they can talk honestly and neutrally about their past.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  7. #37
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I'll make a point of reading the series today and sharing my thoughts. I've only read issue #3. Nevertheless, I maintain that Phoenix is a mystery and take others' views and experiences of her with a grain of salt. Phoenix acts in accordance with what is needed at any given moment. She chooses to be humble and subservient, concealing her true power, or displays with aplomb her omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence, depending on the circumstances. Being "a primal force second only to that of the Creator" (see UXM #137), She is a mystery, as she should be.
    A tantalizing mystery...a veritable Pandora's Box full of mysteries!
    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    I would give the current X-Men series penned by Gerry Duggan a shot. Actually, read X-Men, X-Men: Red, and Immortal X-Men. You might find you enjoy them.



    Frankly, I'm glad the current writers are leaning into Bendis' development of Jean and Emma's relationship. The cattiness gets old and boring, and I would much rather see these two continue to grow and maybe even get to a point where they can talk honestly and neutrally about their past.
    I find the whole concept of Krakoa/mutant isolationism deeply offensive so I can’t bring myself to read those stories. Plus, I mostly just want Chris Claremont back on X-Men. He’s the best X-Men writer and I don’t want anyone but him.

    I enjoy a good female rivalry (especially when it’s over a guy) so we’ll have to agree to disagree on Jean and Emma.

  9. #39
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    A tantalizing mystery...a veritable Pandora's Box full of mysteries!
    🤣 You are too cute, I swear. 🥹
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I find the whole concept of Krakoa/mutant isolationism deeply offensive so I can’t bring myself to read those stories. Plus, I mostly just want Chris Claremont back on X-Men. He’s the best X-Men writer and I don’t want anyone but him.
    Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. You're missing out on some good stories. Currently, Madelyne is back in a sort of Inferno redux—look up Dark Web—but I think it’s clear she’s seeking genuine acceptance and to share in Jean’s memories of raising Nathan with Scott, both of which I suspect Jean will give her in X-Men: Dark Web #3. Of course, Jean has had to get a little rough, first…







    The sequence in Jean’s mindscape reveals some interesting aspects of Jean’s psychic defenses and hints at her either harboring trauma caused by Sinister or Sinister having infiltrated her mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I enjoy a good female rivalry (especially when it’s over a guy) so we’ll have to agree to disagree on Jean and Emma.
    Yeah, I find this trope antiquated; it does a disservice to the female characters.
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  11. #41
    Astonishing Member CaptainUniverse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    🤣 You are too cute, I swear. 🥹
    I try.

    Also...Redheads gotta stick together, am I right?

    "The Enigma Force is not a tool to be manipulated by mortals. The Enigma Force comes to those it deems worthy. What temerity, what arrogance, makes you think you are worthy? Have you not all made mistakes? Unforgiveable ones?" - Captain Universe

    "Call me an Avenging Angel, Baron, come to safeguard Earth...call me CAPTAIN UNIVERSE!" - Ray Coffin

    "You're my heart, Mary Jane Watson...you're my jackpot." - Peter Parker

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercury View Post
    Oh, I'm sorry to hear that. You're missing out on some good stories. Currently, Madelyne is back in a sort of Inferno redux—look up Dark Web—but I think it’s clear she’s seeking genuine acceptance and to share in Jean’s memories of raising Nathan with Scott, both of which I suspect Jean will give her in X-Men: Dark Web #3. Of course, Jean has had to get a little rough, first…







    The sequence in Jean’s mindscape reveals some interesting aspects of Jean’s psychic defenses and hints at her either harboring trauma caused by Sinister or Sinister having infiltrated her mind.



    Yeah, I find this trope antiquated; it does a disservice to the female characters.
    I’m not a fan of Madelyne and only ever enjoyed her in Inferno when she descended into evil.

    In my opinion, only Chris Claremont and to a lesser extent Louise Simonson, Roy Thomas, Ann Nocenti, Fabian Nicieza, and Scott Lobdell should be allowed to write these characters. That’s why I’m hoping the 60th anniversary involves Chris having a bigger role in current Xbooks. These new, young writers simply are not on a par with Chris Claremont.

  13. #43
    Jean Grey Scholar Mercury's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    I try.

    Also...Redheads gotta stick together, am I right?

    Haha! :hug: Yes!

    Quote Originally Posted by KyleWayne View Post
    I’m not a fan of Madelyne and only ever enjoyed her in Inferno when she descended into evil.

    In my opinion, only Chris Claremont and to a lesser extent Louise Simonson, Roy Thomas, Ann Nocenti, Fabian Nicieza, and Scott Lobdell should be allowed to write these characters. That’s why I’m hoping the 60th anniversary involves Chris having a bigger role in current Xbooks. These new, young writers simply are not on a par with Chris Claremont.
    I think, overall, comic books have become less verbose—I wonder if this is a sweeping editorial mandate to have comics mirror films—which I think accounts for some of the dips in quality. However, I've loved enough writers and stories to keep coming back (for now). As I've said before, the day I become disenchanted with the stories, I will just move on. I can't see myself hanging around and waiting for "the good old days."
    Jean Grey in the words of Walt Whitman, from his masterpiece Leaves of Grass, "Song of Myself" (51 and 52):

    "Do I contradict myself? Very well then I contradict myself, (I am large, I contain multitudes.)"

    "Failing to fetch me at first keep encouraged, Missing me one place search another, I stop somewhere waiting for you."

  14. #44
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainUniverse View Post
    1. Oh, well...that explains why it was such a jerk! A Celestial with Tony's arrogance is a bad thing, like...world-ending bad.

    2. Yes, absolutely, what I meant by Reed Richards "helping" was more in a narrative sense seeing as how Cates handed the Captain Universe reveal "baton" from Jean to The Silver Surfer and then finally to Reed. Although...if it had been me writing the book I would have just done a double-splash page with Jean and Cyclops at the center of a psychic energy storm as images of various Captain Universes are conjured from Jean's mind, her eyes glowing like stars as The Enigma Force itself reaches out to her and links minds. Sigh...I am such a nerd.

    3. Interesting, very interesting...now I want to see a story where they connect all three characters together. It wouldn't be hard, Jean mentions something about Knull coming from the Dark but that he is not Darkness itself. So, following that line of logic, why not make the Dark the opposite of the Phoenix in the way that Knull is the opposite of Captain Universe? Jean/Phoenix and The Enigma Force can represent the forces of the Light of Creation and Knull can be paired up with...hmm...The Goblin Force might make a good antagonist to The Phoenix Force. Reuse some Mutant X ideas just for fun?
    You and I share one mind....The Phoenix-Enigma Mind.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

  15. #45
    Ultimate Member Phoenixx9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frontier View Post
    Was modeling the most overused profession for Silver Age Marvel Heroines? Yes.

    Did Jean make it work? Also yes:

    Did Jean ever!

    The Director, one "Mr. Dane" got so excited, that he knocked over lighting (which of course Jean slowed from falling) so that it could be caught and not damaged.
    [Quote Originally Posted by Thor-El 10-15-2020 12:32 PM]

    "Jason Aaron should know there is already a winner of the Phoenix Force and his name is Phoenixx9."


    Like a Red Dragon, The Phoenix shall Soar in 2024!

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