Hal Jordan: The Green Lantern Appreciation 2023

[Frontier]

Barry does say "she hasn't said 'I do' to this other guy yet, right? So you use that willpower of yours and get her back"

Hal actually comes across better than Barry in this scene, because Hal does express that it's Carol's right to move on and if he loves her, he should let her go, etc. Then Barry gives him some pretty bad advice. Pretty low empathy from a superhero, as far as the other guy who is engaged to Carol is concerned

I think it's more to say to use that willpower to not give up rather than force it, because that's kind of what Hal was doing before and not what Barry was advising. More "act classy and maturely" and less cocky flirt.

Barry doesn't know Carol is Hal's soulmate, because that's a pretty silly concept even for superheros. Plus he's showing low empathy for the other guy. Would Barry have appreciated someone trying to woo Iris away from him while he was engaged to her? Hal being his bff doesn't make it less shitty.

Carol being distant from Hal because he is not coming clean with what he is processing and her understanding better once he does would have been a good plot point. But like Vordan said, it would probably work better if Carol was single without the need to involve another guy at all. *We* don't care about the guy, but in-universe a third party might get screwed over by Hal and Carol's love drama, which automatically kills some sympathy for them as a couple.

I think that's an established notion in Superhero comics though, at least for most of their couples .

At least he's not a Paul.

[SiegePerilous02]

I think it's more to say to use that willpower to not give up rather than force it, because that's kind of what Hal was doing before and not what Barry was advising. More "act classy and maturely" and less cocky flirt.

But telling Hal not to give up when she is engaged is terrible advice. Whether by forcing it or by being "classy," it's inappropriate either way and not healthy for either Hal or Carol (and a shitty move towards the other guy). People are right to call this out as a dumb story choice that doesn't make Hal or Barry look good so far.

I think that's an established notion in Superhero comics though, at least for most of their couples .

Although I still like Carol the best of his love interests outside of this, I wouldn't equate them to being one of those couples.

At least he's not a Paul.

I wonder what the odds are going to be that he's a supervillain so Carol can drop him guilt-free.

[j9ac9k]

I wonder what the odds are going to be that he's a supervillain so Carol can drop him guilt-free.

I would actually love it if Nathan was just a friend who Carol asked to pretend to be her fiance to get Hal off her back. Yes - like a sitcom

[Frontier]

But telling Hal not to give up when she is engaged is terrible advice. Whether by forcing it or by being "classy," it's inappropriate either way and not healthy for either Hal or Carol (and a shitty move towards the other guy). People are right to call this out as a dumb story choice that doesn't make Hal or Barry look good so far.

I mean, but the idea is for Hal to not act inappropriately or like he's overtly trying to ruin the relationship? Just be a good guy? I don't really see the harm.

Although I still like Carol the best of his love interests outside of this, I wouldn't equate them to being one of those couples.

After the Johns run, I would.

[HsssH]

I think that many comics today have the problem of being very meta. We know that Hal and Carol are classic couple and will get back together at some point. We know that Nathan is going to either get killed, reveal himself to be some super villain or will get retconned out of existence when next writer comes. So what does it matter thal Hal's actions might ruin his life, it is not like he is a "real" character anyway. Same for Carol, she will get back with Hal eventually so Hal messing up her private life is OK.

Meanwhile, in-universe Hal and Carol haven't managed to work out their feelings for what now? 10-15 years? Both had many relationships with other people, Carol was even married and there are multiple stories where being GL is the most important thing for Hal. It is a toxic situation and it would be the best for both characters if they never interacted again. But they will keep interacting due to earlier mentioned meta reasons.

It is same with Trinity concept, we know that they are important because they have been around since golden age, but in-universe there are close to zero stories explaining why they matter more than, for example, Barry.

So anyway, I think that it is getting increasingly difficult to enjoy modern DC comics if you don't care about the meta level. And as a result character's actions can look charming and creepy to different people.

[Vordan]

All the meta crap at DC has started to get in the way of telling a story. It’s all winking at the audience and outright writing books that seem like they’re meant to be addressing Twitter arguments. Even Adams is guilty given he says this book was meant to be him addressing online criticism of Hal he’s seen, though I can’t imagine how anyone who dislikes Hal is going to read this and start liking him given how much of a screw up he is here.

[Frontier]

All the meta crap at DC has started to get in the way of telling a story. It’s all winking at the audience and outright writing books that seem like they’re meant to be addressing Twitter arguments. Even Adams is guilty given he says this book was meant to be him addressing online criticism of Hal he’s seen, though I can’t imagine how anyone who dislikes Hal is going to read this and start liking him given how much of a screw up he is here.

Well, at least in terms of his relationships and not as a Superhero. He's been pretty on the ball as a GL.

[Bored at 3:00AM]

I've lost count of how many different guys Carol's gotten engaged to and/or married over the years, so this really isn't a new situation for her and Hal.

Same deal with Ferris Air being on the verge of financial ruin. That's pretty much it's standard operating procedure.

Hell, Ferris Air still being an independently run company is probably the most anachronistic element of the book right now. At least they treat Stark Industries as the giant multinational corporation that people are familiar with today.

How many struggling family-owned companies are building experimental aircraft for the US Air Force these days?

In a comic about a man flying around with a magic ring, Ferris Air is still the least believable thing in the book.

[Frontier]

I've lost count of how many different guys Carol's gotten engaged to and/or married over the years, so this really isn't a new situation for her and Hal.

Same deal with Ferris Air being on the verge of financial ruin. That's pretty much it's standard operating procedure.

Hell, Ferris Air still being an independently run company is probably the most anachronistic element of the book right now. At least they treat Stark Industries as the giant multinational corporation that people are familiar with today.

How many struggling family-owned companies are building experimental aircraft for the US Air Force these days?

In a comic about a man flying around with a magic ring, Ferris Air is still the least believable thing in the book.

It does feel topical in light of a world where AI and drones are phasing certain industries out.

[j9ac9k]

It does feel topical in light of a world where AI and drones are phasing certain industries out.

It's too bad Adams isn't exploring that at all and just used it for a bad Top Gun reference and just to see Hal "fly and crash" again, get fired and create the same old tension with Carol.

[HsssH]

Meanwhile Lockheed can't keep up with demand for F-35 and USA airforce is struggling to recruit and train enough fighter pilots.

[Frontier]

It's too bad Adams isn't exploring that at all and just used it for a bad Top Gun reference and just to see Hal "fly and crash" again, get fired and create the same old tension with Carol.

Well, he's literally going to be fighting the unmanned drones so ...

[krazijoe]

How many struggling family-owned companies are building experimental aircraft for the US Air Force these days?

Just about every company in the DC Universe today...

[NathanS]

But even putting this aside (let's just assume Barry's relationship advice-dispensing skills are as good as his attempts at punctuality), given how long he has known Hal and Hal and Carol's history, why is he surprised that Carol is engaged to someone that's not Hal? I mean Carol has been married before and Barry is familiar with Hal's other love interests. I'm not sure Hal and Carol are Lois and Clark or even Barry and Iris or Linda and Wally, and this seems to ignore the actual history that these characters have.

Yeah reminds of when that fact came up in the Brave and Bold, in a story set shortly after Iris death and when Carol was being written as very cold to Hal.



Hal and Carol as a neat tidy thing has been, rare. There's Wolfman, and then Johns kind of shoving it into the very end of his run after mostly not doing much with it for most of his run.

Oh and J. M. DeMatteis's Specter run goes in for a 'our souls are connected and have had a million lives together in a million different ways' in Hal and Carol's one real meeting.

[Frontier]

Yeah reminds of when that fact came up in the Brave and Bold, in a story set shortly after Iris death and when Carol was being written as very cold to Hal.



Hal and Carol as a neat tidy thing has been, rare. There's Wolfman, and then Johns kind of shoving it into the very end of his run after mostly not doing much with it for most of his run.

Well, Carol was in Rebirth and the Star Sapphire story didn't happen that far into the run so I wouldn't say it was completely out of left field.