Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2023

[Iatet]

Just got my favorite version online, from Etsy. Check out Rageartstudios. 5 bucks, you can't beat it.

274706736_348400553960588_1303480570242669922_n.jpg287200524_426405256160117_8732084611679641775_n.jpg

[Iatet]

Also, if you want some good stories about Betsy, there's this...363332102_10160157389663924_1572014213833246030_n.jpg

All fan-made, with high-quality values.

[Iatet]

Deleted, save for later.

[Celestialbodies]

I can't say much more than what's already been said, but I truly think both Marvel under-estimated and continues to under-estimate the sheer undertaking they were tasked with essentially re-conceptualizing the CB mantle for Betsy while she's also still recovering from spending many years in a body that was not her own. We never got her full story so the CB mantle never felt earned for me, not that it couldn't have worked but it needed a great story. I won't rehash my thoughts on Howard's Betsy, but I do not think she nor Marvel had an effective understanding of who Betsy was then even begin making the suggestions Bets should become CB.

[JB]

Also, if you want some good stories about Betsy, there's this...363332102_10160157389663924_1572014213833246030_n.jpg

All fan-made, with high-quality values.

Very nice to see the fan comic getting around, created by our own crimsontt. It's fabulous.

[Thievery]

I really enjoyed reading the recent interview with JDW, and I'm going to try and add my two cents in now before the discussion in this thread moves beyond it.

I think that everyone who has been around this forum for several years knows that I am more of a TH fan and her writing than some other members of this forum have been. Actually I have to say that I'm a little surprised that some of CBR's forum members who were somewhat overly critical of her work are now suggesting that it was actually fine. I found her Excalibur to be excellent, her KoX to be an enjoyable read, and Betsy Braddock Captain Britain to be pretty poor. That seems to put me opposite of a lot of this forum's members who felt that Betsy's journey as Captain Britain got better as it went along.

I never really found Howard to be writing Betsy as if she was a completely different character separated from the last 30 or so years or so of character growth. I read Betsy's adventures to be more about the character moving forward and finding a new place for herself in life. Obviously a lot of readers disagree with me. That's fine, we are all entitled to our opinions.

My only serious complaint with Betsy's three Krakoa era comics was her relationship with Rachel. It really did bomb in my opinion. I feel as though the time and effort was put in to make the relationship work, it just didn't stick the landing. Now I don't think that Marvel will or should give up on the pairing this soon. In theory I feel that a relationship with Rachel should make sense. Captain Britain is a character that deals with alternate reality stories as part of the characters basic set up. So I think that it is a good idea to give Betsy a romance partner such as Rachel that comes from an alternate reality. Rachel should be able to fit with the Captain Britain character's premise of dealing with AU's and Otherworld. Now if Marvel keeps trying with Rachel and it continues to fail than obviously Marvel will have to pull the plug on them.

Now I think that I may be a little different from many of this forum's members in that I didn't read JDW's thoughts on Betsy's three comics to indicate that he thought that Betsy's time in the Krakoan era was a failure. I read it as more that he was disappointed that the character's solo wouldn't be able to continue due to a few things that he would do differently in hindsight. And I doubt that he would have plans to continue using Betsy if he really thought that she was a complete failure. Also, lets be real, Excalibur did sell well, even if Betsy may not have been the actual driving force behind those sells numbers. I can easily see why the X-office would continue on the path that they did when you take into account that Excalibur sold well considering the state of todays sells market for comic books.

As for Kwannon, I do agree with JDW that her presence hurts Betsy. Kwannon really does have most of the traits that one would associate with the Psylocke character over the last thirty or so years. I've seen comments that Betsy is still clearly the more popular character based on Excalibur's sells figures compared to the sells figures of Hellions. I think that is misleading. I personally don't feel as though Betsy was the driving force behind Excalibur's sells. Excalibur also included Gambit, Rogue, Jubilee, and Apocalypse amongst it's cast. Those characters are known to be sells draws, and certainly more than Betsy is. Hellions meanwhile had very few characters that would boost sells. Nanny, Orphan Maker, Kyle, Empath, and Greycrow are hardly characters one would expect to get a comic to the roughly 18 issues that Hellions lasted. It's actually a minor miracle that a comic with that cast would even be approved for publishing. So given the relative success of Hellions and Kwannon now being in a popular Uncanny Avengers comic, I am going to take a guess and say that Kwannon has in fact become the more popular character.

I have some other thoughts on the interview, but others have already commented on them, and I don't want this to be a post where I just keep repeating views that I have already stated.

[CGAR]

So I was looking for references for a commission I want by Clay Mann and it got me thinking if Marvel REALLY wanted Captain Brtian Betsy Braddock to work.

They would have pushed her as much as they push Janes Mighty Thor and given her a writer that was top tier. ( This is prime Jason Aaron)

They have given her book a good budget.

Because I mean look at this!

[JB]

CGAR, I could hug you!

The Homo Superior podcast episode with Steve Foxe is out:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcas...=1000630679270

Fast forward to 21:50 and here's my little transcript:

Host: We've got a question from Chris_KG on twitter. Any Betsy or Rachel crumbs or nuggets that you know of? And then is there, barring that, is there anything that you think you scripted that was elevated by Jonas?

Foxe: Yeah. So Betsy and Rachel, I can say because Gerry already said it, I am writing both of them in upcoming projects. Not the same project but I'm not splitting them up so no one... sapphics calm down, they're fine. (Laughter) What can I say... cause I know this twitter user has been very eager to find out more about Betsy and Rachel... I can say that, to be honest, Betsy's role in the project that I'm working on has grown because I have seen how many fans are excited about her returning. So I would say that in the first conception she was a supporting character and she has elevated to a larger role because I think the demand is out there. There are a lot of Betsy fans and, you know, she's one of my favorite characters. She's been around for a very long time, she's held a lot of different roles but I'm excited to continue her time as Captain Britain.

And as for Rachel... Rachel is already a very key part of a different project and you're going to see both around the same time. That's about all I can say for now.





Thank you for submitting the question and your persistence. I love that he shouted you out like that! I'm so pleased to hear that he noticed and acknowledged the demand and reworked his project to grow her role. We all may have different opinions and perspectives but we all agree that we want more of her and this is wonderful evidence of that. Love you all!

[Uncanny X-Man]

Wow this is excellent news! So we got confirmation that she's remaining as Captain Britain, has a substantial role to play in one of Steve Foxe's upcoming books in addition to another book to be announced, and most importantly that Marvel is well aware Betsy's fans are legion and that we want her and we want her now! LOL

Thanks so much Jbenito for sharing this, it truly made my day!

[Psy-lock]

Bleh to continuing as CB, but at least she's not being written by TH anymore.

[JB]

Wow this is excellent news! So we got confirmation that she's remaining as Captain Britain, has a substantial role to play in one of Steve Foxe's upcoming books in addition to another book to be announced, and most importantly that Marvel is well aware Betsy's fans are legion and that we want her and we want her now! LOL

Thanks so much Jbenito for sharing this, it truly made my day!

Always my pleasure! I may have done a cartwheel at 3am when I listened, I dunno.
I have to listen again because I was sleepy but the topic comes up again when one of the hosts asks about fan influence and all that. Steve said normally it doesn’t impact his writing decisions especially because of the usual publishing schedule. For example he said by the time Dark X-Men #1 released he had already written the whole mini. But he’s working far enough ahead on this project with Betsy that the fan reaction made him take a closer look at her and he wanted to be sure she wasn’t underutilized. He pretty much confirmed this is coming out in Spring so we’ll see if she appears before then under someone else.

Another thing of possible note: he talked about coordinating with the other writers for the Redroot story and he said he’s been coordinating with Gillen and Ewing recently. Perhaps that’s a hint that they’ll be writing Betsy and/or Rachel.

[Knightmare]

You’re right, it is quality vs quantity and that’s exactly what I’m talking about. Whether people liked the developments or not Betsy has been lead in her books for 4 years. And as I’ve said before KoX #1 sold out day one and went to second printing, getting the green light for a second arc. For whatever reasons they decided to pivot to a solo as they discussed the next arc, this is confirmed. Considering how many reboots and relaunches the line has made it’s not at all unusual even if I disagree with such a move. As for her solo, in a world where Scarlet Witch gets cancelled and rebooted at #10, it’s an achievement that it even existed.

Why are people ok with accepting crumbs when it comes to Kwannon? She was made a great captain of Krakoa but we all know that didn’t mean anything. I’ve seen several people say Thompson wrote her like Betsy and I agree. It doesn’t help that all her identifiers are famously attributed to another character. She hasn’t done anything in Uncanny Avengers but kill goons and pose provocatively. Do you see what I’m saying? It’s a half-assed attempt by Marvel to stick her in different places and bank on her physical appearance. That’s not enough for me. Why does the mutant cause mean so much to her now versus her early years as an assassin? Let’s explore that. Let’s explore her new friendships because in-universe she’s only been around a short time and most characters didn’t know her. We often complain that things happen off-panel and we’ve fast forwarded to her being friends with everyone. Maybe Duggan will right the ship when it comes to her (and Monet for that matter) and I’d actually like to see her on a legit Avengers roster. I wanna see Marvel be bold and take her out of the ninja suit, building her own unique character.

An entire world has been built around Betsy this era. Her past before the X-Men has fully come back around and the STRIKE psi division is active again. She’s living with her family again and that’s brought Brian and Meggan, and even Jamie!, back into the fold. Characters that have been ignored for years. She’s positioned to function both as part of the X-Men and outside of them. I’m not sure what you mean by drought when Steve Foxe has confirmed writing her. It’s possible it’s for an Unlimited story but that’s not the indication I get. He’s one of the fastest-rising writers in the x-office and if she’s in a proper book of his, which I believe she will be, it’ll either be in a main X-Men book or a book with her as focus and a team around her. If what I’m hearing is true it’s the latter. They didn’t have a backup plan for her for Fall of X and as annoying as that is it seems they’re wrapping her back in. And I honestly ain’t that mad or feel she’s missing out because the mutants are suffering af and I’m glad she’s being spared.

Besides, nothing compares to the drought that came after her death in X-Treme lol

Ok. I think the main problem is what the fans consider quality and what Marvel editorial considers quality. Despite Kwannon's relative short time in the spot light, she has begun to grow beyond the confines of the X-Verse to the wider Marvel universe. Betsy despite all the effort that was put into her, barely managed to get time in the X-Verse. Simply put Kwannon had more eyes looking at her stories than Betsy did.

I think you missed the mark as to why Marvel would push Kwannon in the way they have. If you're trying to re-introduce a new ip in to the Marvel landscape then, putting that character everywhere allows you introduce readers to new comics books the might not ordinarily read. Uncanny leads to Captain Marvel, which leads to Fallen Angels etc etc. The in universe rationale for why Kwannon is all for the mutant cause doesn't really mean anything as continuity doesn't mean much any more. Marvel is a business first and whatever sells comics is what they're doing. So for now, she stays in the ninja outfit.

I have to disagree with you here. Betsy can't be both an X-Man and Captain Britain. These roles aren't congruent with each other. At most Betsy can be considered an ally to the mutant cause. Yes Steve Foxe is going to write her, but it won't be an ongoing. It'll be sporadic appearances that rarely amount to anything. I'm telling you this as a Captain Britain fan who had many appearances over the years that basically amounted to glorified cameos. I mean stuff that Tini implemented is already starting to unravel. Just look at the Captain Britain over in Hickman's Ultimate Invasion book!

[juan678]

https://twitter.com/amadcartoonist/s...98996263719047

[JB]

Ok. I think the main problem is what the fans consider quality and what Marvel editorial considers quality. Despite Kwannon's relative short time in the spot light, she has begun to grow beyond the confines of the X-Verse to the wider Marvel universe. Betsy despite all the effort that was put into her, barely managed to get time in the X-Verse. Simply put Kwannon had more eyes looking at her stories than Betsy did.

I think you missed the mark as to why Marvel would push Kwannon in the way they have. If you're trying to re-introduce a new ip in to the Marvel landscape then, putting that character everywhere allows you introduce readers to new comics books the might not ordinarily read. Uncanny leads to Captain Marvel, which leads to Fallen Angels etc etc. The in universe rationale for why Kwannon is all for the mutant cause doesn't really mean anything as continuity doesn't mean much any more. Marvel is a business first and whatever sells comics is what they're doing. So for now, she stays in the ninja outfit.

I have to disagree with you here. Betsy can't be both an X-Man and Captain Britain. These roles aren't congruent with each other. At most Betsy can be considered an ally to the mutant cause. Yes Steve Foxe is going to write her, but it won't be an ongoing. It'll be sporadic appearances that rarely amount to anything. I'm telling you this as a Captain Britain fan who had many appearances over the years that basically amounted to glorified cameos. I mean stuff that Tini implemented is already starting to unravel. Just look at the Captain Britain over in Hickman's Ultimate Invasion book!

Thank you for the post, friend. I'm good to agree to disagree because we have different interpretations of things but ultimately we both care about these characters and that's what matters.

I'm currently on cloud 9 over the kind confirmation that the Betsy fan efforts have been noticed and acknowledged. I'll be up there if anyone needs me.

[Hakka84]

I was scrolling through BB:CB #1 a little while ago and she sure was getting action on page 26, panel 4.

I think it was the only time she was more than implied to get some action, with Fantomex being the only other time. (me sad we didn't get the same luck when she was with the flyboy ç_ç).
[OT]Generally speaking, I don't think many character are shown this? [Jean/Scott/Logan/Emma foursome notwithstanding) so good for her![/OT]

But deep down in my bones my biggest wish would be for his book to be a mini where the story takes her and Brian to Otherworld, and ends with Brian as CB again while Betsy forges a brand new superhero identity for her and goes back to the X-Men to be alongside Wolverine, Storm, Archangel, Nightcrawler, Jubilee, Dazzler and yes, Kwannon.

Betsy+Brian+Otheworld plus Warren AND Kwannon? WHERE DO I HAVE TO SIGN WITH BLOOD???
(at this point I don't even care for the romantic pair, I would be excited with just Betsy and Warren work together and be shown still affectionate/protective/close-friends-in-a-we-didn't-work-as-couple-for-many-reasons-but-we-still-love-each-other-and-care-for-each-other.)

I can't say much more than what's already been said, but I truly think both Marvel under-estimated and continues to under-estimate the sheer undertaking they were tasked with essentially re-conceptualizing the CB mantle for Betsy while she's also still recovering from spending many years in a body that was not her own. We never got her full story so the CB mantle never felt earned for me, not that it couldn't have worked but it needed a great story. I won't rehash my thoughts on Howard's Betsy, but I do not think she nor Marvel had an effective understanding of who Betsy was then even begin making the suggestions Bets should become CB.

Amen.

(Hm, I see some other post that stirred some discussion. Might get back to them!)