Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2023

[whitecrown]

I dont know why Marvel didnt just commit to this. i know the whole story about how Nicieza havent not read Claremont's original issues surrounding the body change but once this dropped, I dont know they didnt just move forward with it. Asian Betsy had only been around 3 years so not much damage was done yet. They could have just revealed that she was brainwashed and manipulated and had her real memories restored as the true Kwannon and the other character be the true Betsy. There was a story that could have been told with the Asian character being a sleeper agent and then working to redeem herself as well as Betsy returning to a team that was largely different than the one she had left. The whole confusing they are both Betsy bc they were merged nad swapped while giving Revanche almost on characterization, sticking her in the background for months and then killing her off is so cringe when looking back and the untapped potential there. Maybe they thought having 3 telepaths (bc Jean was around) would have been too much

Technically 4 telepaths with Xavier. It would have been easier to just retcon her as the real Betsy way back then when the Asian Psylocke was barely a few years old. Certainly a better choice in the early 90s to do this retcon than Claremont retconning Bloody Bess as Betsy in the late 2010s. My guess is that because Asian Psylocke sold well as eye candy, they decided to keep her and it was easier to justify keeping her if she was the original character with an established history and background. I don't think British Betsy was very popular that way so this is why they kept her around in the background before finally confirming she was really Kwannon and killing her off since they didn't need a copy. I

t's all really badly done and they should have just established Asian Psylocke as a Hand sleeper agent in the team. Claremont kept giving hints about that and Psylocke's true loyalties before he left the book since he wanted to set up The Dark Wolverine Saga where both Logan and Jean would get corrupted by the Hand. I'm sure Betsy would have been a big part of that storyline having been through the process before and she may have been instrumental in saving them as she was in X-Men Forever Annual #1 where she, Kurt, Kitty, and Jubilee save them from the Hand.

[JB]

Someone on Twitter posted a comment saying we may be getting Otherworld news this week. I don't know how much to believe it but i'm grasping at any news now.

There's a rumor of an appearance in one of the books this week of an Otherworld-related character.

I dont know why Marvel didnt just commit to this. i know the whole story about how Nicieza havent not read Claremont's original issues surrounding the body change but once this dropped, I dont know they didnt just move forward with it. Asian Betsy had only been around 3 years so not much damage was done yet. They could have just revealed that she was brainwashed and manipulated and had her real memories restored as the true Kwannon and the other character be the true Betsy. There was a story that could have been told with the Asian character being a sleeper agent and then working to redeem herself as well as Betsy returning to a team that was largely different than the one she had left. The whole confusing they are both Betsy bc they were merged nad swapped while giving Revanche almost on characterization, sticking her in the background for months and then killing her off is so cringe when looking back and the untapped potential there. Maybe they thought having 3 telepaths (bc Jean was around) would have been too much

I remember reading this and being so sure that they were going to restore them both as whole in their own bodies at the end of the arc. I thought that would be the pay off after Jean finds out that they were equally each other, and that she was going to somehow separate them. I didn't think they were going to kill Revanche. I've never been able to wrap my mind around the reasoning for any of it.

[Luckystar.]

Someone on Twitter posted a comment saying we may be getting Otherworld news this week. I don't know how much to believe it but i'm grasping at any news now.

Don't hold your breath. Nothing Betsy related at all.

[Psy-lock]

Maybe they thought having 3 telepaths (bc Jean was around) would have been too much

Kwannon didn't have to be a telepath though. She was later revealed to be an empath. And they could've easily distinguish her by giving her new powers. Betsy herself went through two power-upgrades with the Crimson Dawn and telekinesis.

[CGAR]

Don't hold your breath. Nothing Betsy related at all.

what a bummer ;(

[crimsontt]

I’ve finished writing 6 other chapters of my Betsy Braddock Origins book.

Chapter 5 is already here. While the first 4 issues were inspired in the Moore/Davies/Delano years. The upcoming issues will incorporate some elements about Betsy’s past brought by Claremont and Remender.

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2933759

For those unaware of my project, here are the first 4 issues

A friendly reminder that I don’t seek to monetize this project at any level, nor directly or indirectly, like donations, funding or collecting advertising revenues.

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2881947

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2894509

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2895402

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2897158

[whitecrown]

They should have established that besides being an empath, Kwannon had latent telekinesis and the reason Betsy was able to use telekinesis from the Revolution period was because she was channeling Kwannon's innate mutant ability which Jean helped her unlock. When Betsy and Kwannon were restored to their original bodies, Betsy should have remained fully telepathic with her precognition abilities. Kwannon could become the telekinetic ninja with no telepathy and no butterfly. They could give her mild empathic powers but she wouldn't be a full-fledged telepath. Giving both Betsy and Kwannon telepathic and telekinetic abilities only further makes having them both redundant and why Betsy has been shut out in favor of Kwannon.

[Havok83]

They should have established that besides being an empath, Kwannon had latent telekinesis and the reason Betsy was able to use telekinesis from the Revolution period was because she was channeling Kwannon's innate mutant ability which Jean helped her unlock. When Betsy and Kwannon were restored to their original bodies, Betsy should have remained fully telepathic with her precognition abilities. Kwannon could become the telekinetic ninja with no telepathy and no butterfly. They could give her mild empathic powers but she wouldn't be a full-fledged telepath. Giving both Betsy and Kwannon telepathic and telekinetic abilities only further makes having them both redundant and why Betsy has been shut out in favor of Kwannon.

They arent redundant though. One can have issues with how Marvel has handled things but the two have been written and portrayed completely different this era. There really isnt much overlap and they arent any more redundant than any other TP/TK mutant like Jean, Xavier, Monet, Cable, etc... Kwannon simply could not be swapped in for any of the many stories that have been told with Betsy. Even if you dont have her as Captain Britain, they dont fufill the same role and she doesnt have the Otherworld connection or relationship to the associated character. The first material done with Kwannon in Fallen Angels, couldnt have been done with Betsy bc that was centered around fleshing out Kwannon's backstory. While i could see how Betsy could have been used in Maraurders, that series was about establishing Kwannon's own relationships as she was thrust into a ragtag team of characters that Betsy had little to no experience with outside of Havok and that also picked up on her backstory that was revealed in FA. The two have diverged so much since then that htey no longer feel like two sides of the same coin.

[whitecrown]

They arent redundant though. One can have issues with how Marvel has handled things but the two have been written and portrayed completely different this era. There really isnt much overlap and they arent any more redundant than any other TP/TK mutant like Jean, Xavier, Monet, Cable, etc... Kwannon simply could not be swapped in for any of the many stories that have been told with Betsy. Even if you dont have her as Captain Britain, they dont fufill the same role and she doesnt have the Otherworld connection or relationship to the associated character. The first material done with Kwannon in Fallen Angels, couldnt have been done with Betsy bc that was centered around fleshing out Kwannon's backstory. While i could see how Betsy could have been used in Maraurders, that series was about establishing Kwannon's own relationships as she was thrust into a ragtag team of characters that Betsy had little to no experience with outside of Havok and that also picked up on her backstory that was revealed in FA. The two have diverged so much since then that htey no longer feel like two sides of the same coin.

The problem is that Marvel sees Kwannon as the real Psylocke, which is why they've given her all of Betsy's iconic imagery right down to her codename and butterfly imagery. Betsy's not interfering with Kwannon because Marvel has gone out of their way to pigeonhole her in Excalibur where she won't bump into anyone important. Now Kwannon is on an A-List team like Uncanny Avengers, even though Betsy, with her Captain Britain connections, would actually make more sense with the Avengers. The only reason they're both not redundant right now is because Marvel has done everything they can to diminish Betsy's importance and give Kwannon the spotlight instead and that's not an equal playing field.

[CGAR]

People say that otherworld is a "flop" and no im not calling anyone out Ive just seen that sentiment here and on twitter

But honestly i still want that explored with a more capable writer and an artist that can really bring it to life.

I think there is a lot of good stuff that a writer can do with her STRIKE and Otherworld side.

I just really am disliking patriotic heroes for some reason.

And as Jbenito said here or another thread she really could have her own thing going and her own supporting cast if done correctly.

Since they do seem to be furthering her away from the X-Men.

The one thing that would bother me is if she lost all those close connections.

I like the dynamics she has with Jean, Ororo, Scott, Logan, Emma, Kurt, Piotr and also Magneto and Apocalypse now.

[whitecrown]

I miss her friendships with Logan, Warren, Ororo, Jean, Hank, Bobby, Piotr, and Kurt to name a few. I miss the days when Betsy and Warren were a power couple. We've had four classic X-Couples make it to the altar (Scott/Jean, Alex/Lorna, Kitty/Peter, Rogue/Remy) even if only two of those couples actually went through with marriage, and I'd like to see Betsy and Warren one day be treated with the same respect and be the next X-Couple to be married at the X-Mansion in front of all their friends and family.

But with everything else they've stripped from Betsy, right now I'm still waiting for the day when Marvel tries to make Warren and Kwannon a couple and reveal that Warren only ever loved Betsy for her Asian body rather than for who she was in the body.

[Havok83]

The problem is that Marvel sees Kwannon as the real Psylocke, which is why they've given her all of Betsy's iconic imagery right down to her codename and butterfly imagery. Betsy's not interfering with Kwannon because Marvel has gone out of their way to pigeonhole her in Excalibur where she won't bump into anyone important. Now Kwannon is on an A-List team like Uncanny Avengers, even though Betsy, with her Captain Britain connections, would actually make more sense with the Avengers. The only reason they're both not redundant right now is because Marvel has done everything they can to diminish Betsy's importance and give Kwannon the spotlight instead and that's not an equal playing field.

And thats for the best. They shouldnt be redundant characters that are written interchangeably. Marvel has gone out of their way to make them different and give them their own unique characterization and stories and they've succeeded in that. I do wish Betsy was more prominent but I dont think that should be a knock on Kwannon

People say that otherworld is a "flop" and no im not calling anyone out Ive just seen that sentiment here and on twitter

But honestly i still want that explored with a more capable writer and an artist that can really bring it to life.

I think there is a lot of good stuff that a writer can do with her STRIKE and Otherworld side.

I just really am disliking patriotic heroes for some reason.

And as Jbenito said here or another thread she really could have her own thing going and her own supporting cast if done correctly.

Since they do seem to be furthering her away from the X-Men.

The one thing that would bother me is if she lost all those close connections.

I like the dynamics she has with Jean, Ororo, Scott, Logan, Emma, Kurt, Piotr and also Magneto and Apocalypse now.

I dont care for Otherworld stuff (never did even when she was in the Asian body), but I can appreciate it for those that do. Its part of her history that was largely ignored for decades and she is one of the few character that was positioned to even be able to explore it with. Unforuntately that outside of the buildup to X of Swords, it doesnt really fit in with Krakoa which is probably why its been so seperate

I miss her friendships with Logan, Warren, Ororo, Jean, Hank, Bobby, Piotr, and Kurt to name a few. I miss the days when Betsy and Warren were a power couple. We've had four classic X-Couples make it to the altar (Scott/Jean, Alex/Lorna, Kitty/Peter, Rogue/Remy) even if only two of those couples actually went through with marriage, and I'd like to see Betsy and Warren one day be treated with the same respect and be the next X-Couple to be married at the X-Mansion in front of all their friends and family.

But with everything else they've stripped from Betsy, right now I'm still waiting for the day when Marvel tries to make Warren and Kwannon a couple and reveal that Warren only ever loved Betsy for her Asian body rather than for who she was in the body.

As someone that used to love Warren and Betsy, I cant realistically ever see them together again. They've never been treated as each other's great love in the way that Jean/Scott nor Rogue/Gambit were and I dont see the other as each's end game. They werent really together that long in the books (1994-2001) and they got toxic towards the end and every time since when they've been brought back around each other. Betsy herself has evolved and changed so much as a character that the version of her that worked with Warren hasnt existed for like 20 years. He's been stuck in the same loop of dealing with the Archangel persona every few years whereas she has continued to evolve to the point that they simply dont work anymore. It would be more damaging and stifling to her growth to try and reunite them

i dont feel like Marvel would ever put Warren with Kwannon bc again I didnt see Archangel and Psylocke as this big Marvel power couple that they'd want to recreate. she's a different character and would make even less sense with Warren

[Psyknight]

I’ve finished writing 6 other chapters of my Betsy Braddock Origins book.

Chapter 5 is already here. While the first 4 issues were inspired in the Moore/Davies/Delano years. The upcoming issues will incorporate some elements about Betsy’s past brought by Claremont and Remender.

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2933759

For those unaware of my project, here are the first 4 issues

A friendly reminder that I don’t seek to monetize this project at any level, nor directly or indirectly, like donations, funding or collecting advertising revenues.

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2881947

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2894509

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2895402

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2897158

Thank you. This is a butterfly shaped light in the darkness.

[whitecrown]

And thats for the best. They shouldnt be redundant characters that are written interchangeably. Marvel has gone out of their way to make them different and give them their own unique characterization and stories and they've succeeded in that. I do wish Betsy was more prominent but I dont think that should be a knock on Kwannon

I dont care for Otherworld stuff (never did even when she was in the Asian body), but I can appreciate it for those that do. Its part of her history that was largely ignored for decades and she is one of the few character that was positioned to even be able to explore it with. Unforuntately that outside of the buildup to X of Swords, it doesnt really fit in with Krakoa which is probably why its been so seperate

I don't mind Kwannon existing and I even think there is potential in keeping them both around but what I don't like is how Kwannon has been given pretty much all of Betsy's traits and imagery minus the Otherworld stuff. Which isn't a favorite of mine either. I appreciate that it's being explored since it was part of her history but Excalibur is a very niche book and it's cost Betsy her A-Lister status. She used to be one of Marvel's most popular heroines and I've felt her status with comic book fans and general audiences has been fading.

For Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, she was the most requested female character after Jean Grey. For MvC3, she was the most requested female character, beating even Carol Danvers. During Remender's UXF run, she was voted the best Marvel character of the year. I'm not sure any of that would still hold up today especially with all the competition from the MCU heroines.

Now she's in a book that can't even sell because no one is interested. Kwannon is the new character and she should have to prove her worth as her own character rather than be granted a jump over more established characters because she's been granted most of Betsy's identity to warrant her importance.

[Havok83]

I don't mind Kwannon existing and I even think there is potential in keeping them both around but what I don't like is how Kwannon has been given pretty much all of Betsy's traits and imagery minus the Otherworld stuff. Which isn't a favorite of mine either. I appreciate that it's being explored since it was part of her history but Excalibur is a very niche book and it's cost Betsy her A-Lister status. She used to be one of Marvel's most popular heroines and I've felt her status with comic book fans and general audiences has been fading.

For Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, she was the most requested female character after Jean Grey. For MvC3, she was the most requested female character, beating even Carol Danvers. During Remender's UXF run, she was voted the best Marvel character of the year. I'm not sure any of that would still hold up today especially with all the competition from the MCU heroines.

Now she's in a book that can't even sell because no one is interested. Kwannon is the new character and she should have to prove her worth as her own character rather than be granted a jump over more established characters because she's been granted most of Betsy's identity to warrant her importance.

my question for you is that if Psylocke is in a videogame, do you really care if its Betsy or Kwannon? I ask bc by and large most time, she doesnt factor into the story and is there for her functionality (fighting style, powers). Unless you read a bio or ending, it wouldnt generally be apparent which character is in said game as her history and backstory with the characters doesnt come really come into play much. Psylocke is still used in videogames but I dont feel as if the recent changes have had much of an impact on how she would have been used anyway