Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2023

[Psyknight]

The problem is that Marvel sees Kwannon as the real Psylocke, which is why they've given her all of Betsy's iconic imagery right down to her codename and butterfly imagery. Betsy's not interfering with Kwannon because Marvel has gone out of their way to pigeonhole her in Excalibur where she won't bump into anyone important. Now Kwannon is on an A-List team like Uncanny Avengers, even though Betsy, with her Captain Britain connections, would actually make more sense with the Avengers. The only reason they're both not redundant right now is because Marvel has done everything they can to diminish Betsy's importance and give Kwannon the spotlight instead and that's not an equal playing field.

I don't mind Kwannon existing and I even think there is potential in keeping them both around but what I don't like is how Kwannon has been given pretty much all of Betsy's traits and imagery minus the Otherworld stuff. Which isn't a favorite of mine either. I appreciate that it's being explored since it was part of her history but Excalibur is a very niche book and it's cost Betsy her A-Lister status. She used to be one of Marvel's most popular heroines and I've felt her status with comic book fans and general audiences has been fading.

For Marvel Ultimate Alliance 2, she was the most requested female character after Jean Grey. For MvC3, she was the most requested female character, beating even Carol Danvers. During Remender's UXF run, she was voted the best Marvel character of the year. I'm not sure any of that would still hold up today especially with all the competition from the MCU heroines.

Now she's in a book that can't even sell because no one is interested. Kwannon is the new character and she should have to prove her worth as her own character rather than be granted a jump over more established characters because she's been granted most of Betsy's identity to warrant her importance.

But she was given three solos! That totally means that editors all love her and have Great Plans for her!!! /sarcasm

You are depressingly accurate. Her solos were Trojan horses.

[JB]

I’ve finished writing 6 other chapters of my Betsy Braddock Origins book.

Chapter 5 is already here. While the first 4 issues were inspired in the Moore/Davies/Delano years. The upcoming issues will incorporate some elements about Betsy’s past brought by Claremont and Remender.

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2933759

For those unaware of my project, here are the first 4 issues

A friendly reminder that I don’t seek to monetize this project at any level, nor directly or indirectly, like donations, funding or collecting advertising revenues.

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2881947

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2894509

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2895402

https://m.tapas.io/episode/2897158

Thanks for posting! Looking forward to reading the new one.

People say that otherworld is a "flop" and no im not calling anyone out Ive just seen that sentiment here and on twitter

But honestly i still want that explored with a more capable writer and an artist that can really bring it to life.

I think there is a lot of good stuff that a writer can do with her STRIKE and Otherworld side.

I just really am disliking patriotic heroes for some reason.

And as Jbenito said here or another thread she really could have her own thing going and her own supporting cast if done correctly.

Since they do seem to be furthering her away from the X-Men.

The one thing that would bother me is if she lost all those close connections.

I like the dynamics she has with Jean, Ororo, Scott, Logan, Emma, Kurt, Piotr and also Magneto and Apocalypse now.

Agreed.

I also agree with Havok83 about Betsy and Warren. I love Warren but that ship has sailed for me and I think at this point to bring them back together is simply for nostalgia purposes. And though I like her with Rachel I don't see them as end game. Her end game, in my most humble opinion, was fairly recently resurrected and is living in the Manor at the moment.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

I wouldn't say that her ship with Warren has sailed, especially then when some want her to resurrect a relationship from decades earlier. As if she hasn't changed and evolved past that ship. Sure for Betsy and Warren you'd need to do some work however it wouldn't take years imho. I don't think that really anything that Howard did with Betsy has helped the character, a new writer could throw it all out and we wouldn't miss much. Marvel badly bungled her return to a new English body, and Kwannon is now in the body that Jamie built for Betsy, which then is not her original body. Warren has gotten stuck because he's not a favorite of the current Marvel editors and such.

[whitecrown]

my question for you is that if Psylocke is in a videogame, do you really care if its Betsy or Kwannon? I ask bc by and large most time, she doesnt factor into the story and is there for her functionality (fighting style, powers). Unless you read a bio or ending, it wouldnt generally be apparent which character is in said game as her history and backstory with the characters doesnt come really come into play much. Psylocke is still used in videogames but I dont feel as if the recent changes have had much of an impact on how she would have been used anyway

Yes, it would matter to me. It's not about whether the character is involved in the story or not because in pretty much all of these video games, the actual playable characters are never important to the story. They're not there for the story though but for the fans who love them and want them authentically portrayed. I think Wolverine fans would be very angry if the Wolverine in video games was always portrayed as Daken even though they have similar claws, the same costume, etc. Similarly if Captain America was replaced with US Agent, Iron Man with War Machine, Spider-Man with Ben Reilly or Miles Morales, Jean Grey with Madelyne Pryor or Rachel Summers, etc. in all these games. All those legacy/substitute characters have similar looks and powers but the fans of the originals would not be happy so I don't see why it would be different for Betsy. I've always bemoaned the fact that in most of her video games, we could only play as the Asian Psylocke. I never played MUA3, but I thought it was disappointing that she was back in her British body by this point but the game didn't give her an alternate look based on British Betsy. Marvel Super War did give us Disassembled Psylocke and I prefer using that version of Betsy over the Asian ninja one, even though the only difference is cosmetic.

By point about video games was more that who's playable in them generally depends on which characters are popular with fans and being pushed by Marvel. That's the reason the FF and even the X-Men to an extent, disappeared from games in the 2010s and suddenly the Guardians of the Galaxy were everywhere. Psylocke was a mainstay of Marvel video games in the 90s-early 2000s and early 2010s because her popularity was at her highest during those points. I feel like her popularity has plummeted in recent years and this will affect what media she appears in. Another good example is X-Men '97. Psylocke was originally supposed to join the main cast of the X-Men 90s show after the Season 4 finale along with Archangel, Bishop, and Shard. X-Men '97 is bringing in new members to be an official part of the team, including Archangel, but I've heard nothing about Psylocke even making a guest appearance. Is it possible she's being snubbed because she's not a priority at Marvel anymore? I don't know, but it's not out of the realm of possibilities.

As someone that used to love Warren and Betsy, I cant realistically ever see them together again. They've never been treated as each other's great love in the way that Jean/Scott nor Rogue/Gambit were and I dont see the other as each's end game. They werent really together that long in the books (1994-2001) and they got toxic towards the end and every time since when they've been brought back around each other. Betsy herself has evolved and changed so much as a character that the version of her that worked with Warren hasnt existed for like 20 years. He's been stuck in the same loop of dealing with the Archangel persona every few years whereas she has continued to evolve to the point that they simply dont work anymore. It would be more damaging and stifling to her growth to try and reunite them

i dont feel like Marvel would ever put Warren with Kwannon bc again I didnt see Archangel and Psylocke as this big Marvel power couple that they'd want to recreate. she's a different character and would make even less sense with Warren

They haven't had a long period together as a couple, but realistically the same is true for some of these other couples. Rogue and Gambit weren't conceived as a couple much earlier than Betsy and Warren. Kitty and Peter weren't even officially a thing until the 2000s and they've been broken up more than they've ever been together. I'll admit I never cared for Betsy and Warren as a couple until Remender's run where he made me care for them. The Dark Angel Saga is an ode to their love story just like The Dark Phoenix Saga was an ode to Scott and Jean's and they were written as each other's great loves in that run. I agree that Angel has been in a loop since then but frankly, Betsy's in a rut right now herself as Captain Britain so is she really any better off? Bringing them back together would at least re-establish one of her classic X-connections since she barely has any going for her at this point. The Betsy/Warren relationship isn't a priority for me, because Betsy has a lot of other things that need to be fixed first, but I would like to see them one day be reunited as a couple because they had more substance together than a lot of the other ones we're seeing today (Betsy and Rachel for example). And realistically out of all the classic X-couples who never made it to the altar, Betsy and Warren are the most prominent ones left.

I wouldn't put it past Marvel to take anything more from Betsy and give it to Kwannon. One could make the argument that the psychic butterfly had nothing to do with Kwannon and wasn't a part of her, but they still stole that from Betsy and gave it to Kwannon because it's part of the ninja Psylocke imagery. A relationship with Warren is also part of that imagery and association.

[whitecrown]

I wouldn't say that her ship with Warren has sailed, especially then when some want her to resurrect a relationship from decades earlier. As if she hasn't changed and evolved past that ship. Sure for Betsy and Warren you'd need to do some work however it wouldn't take years imho. I don't think that really anything that Howard did with Betsy has helped the character, a new writer could throw it all out and we wouldn't miss much. Marvel badly bungled her return to a new English body, and Kwannon is now in the body that Jamie built for Betsy, which then is not her original body. Warren has gotten stuck because he's not a favorite of the current Marvel editors and such.

Precisely. Psylocke is one of those characters who has drastically been changed at multiple points without any build-up. She became an Asian ninja overnight in Claremont's run. In his second run, she was suddenly telekinetic without any telepathy and that was never part of her character before. Then Fraction brought back the telepathy. Remender ignored the telekinesis, made her an omega-level mutant with her telepathy, and restored the Betsy/Warren relationship that hadn't been referenced in about a decade. I remember there was some confusion about why they were suddenly a couple again all of a sudden but no one seemed to mind once they saw how well they were written together. Betsy's relationship with Rachel came just as out of the blue and only because they shared a friendship in the 2000s in the Claremont/Davis run. If a new relationship could be formed as easily as that, it wouldn't be difficult at all to re-establish Betsy and Warren's romance.

If a new writer came in today and threw all this Captain Britain stuff out, I think most Psylocke fans wouldn't really blink so long as what comes next is an improvement (and I can't really imagine anything worse for her besides death). You're right that Warren also suffers from not being a fanvorite of Marvel editors. They have no idea what to do with him which is what made him suffer, but they seem just as perplexed with Betsy since they have no use for her outside of making sure she doesn't infringe on Kwannon. Perhaps a Betsy/Warren relationship would help inspire a writer to give them something new to do that is actually relevant. Way back in the 80s, when the Champions disbanded, a plan was for the Champions and Avengers to merge which would make Angel and Iceman members of the Avengers. I always felt it was odd how Angel was one of the most high-profile mutant superheroes around and how he'd been a member of the Champions, New Defenders, and X-Factor, but never on the Avengers. The recent UA relaunch would have been perfect to put Warren and Betsy on the team. We've already seen that alternate versions of Betsy as Captain Britain were part of the Illuminati and why couldn't Captain Britain and Captain America be on the same team? Yet, Kwannon, who has literally no ties to the Avengers, was given the spotlight.

[JB]

I wouldn't say that her ship with Warren has sailed, especially then when some want her to resurrect a relationship from decades earlier. As if she hasn't changed and evolved past that ship. Sure for Betsy and Warren you'd need to do some work however it wouldn't take years imho. I don't think that really anything that Howard did with Betsy has helped the character, a new writer could throw it all out and we wouldn't miss much. Marvel badly bungled her return to a new English body, and Kwannon is now in the body that Jamie built for Betsy, which then is not her original body. Warren has gotten stuck because he's not a favorite of the current Marvel editors and such.

The beauty about the relationship with Tom is that there isn't anything to fix, rectify, or unravel. They had a good relationship, they survived the Slaymaster assassinations together and he saw how much of a fighter she wanted to be. Then he was murdered. It's not about resurrecting an old relationship it's about starting something completely new. Whereas with Warren there's a lot of baggage. It's not impossible but I fear the same beats used between them would be repeated.

As for the Uncanny Avengers, I do agree that I would have liked to see Betsy on that team but as an official team. As of right now it's not government sanctioned but rather put together in a time of desperation with half the roster wanted by the government. With mutants being openly hunted, Kwannon, Rogue, and Monet aren't wearing Avengers badges, at least not yet. That may change at the end of the series and if the team continues, but we'll have to see.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

The Betsy that Tom knew way back when could be considered long gone. What's odd about CC is that he only broke Warren and Betsy up at all because he was leaving that book and only taking Betsy and Neal. Otherwise that pairing would never have happened. Right now Betsy and Warren aren't desired characters sadly and I'd love to see them lead a team together as a counterpoint maybe to Scott and Jean and such. Both characters could use a fresh start.

[Havok83]

I wouldn't say that her ship with Warren has sailed, especially then when some want her to resurrect a relationship from decades earlier. As if she hasn't changed and evolved past that ship. Sure for Betsy and Warren you'd need to do some work however it wouldn't take years imho. I don't think that really anything that Howard did with Betsy has helped the character, a new writer could throw it all out and we wouldn't miss much. Marvel badly bungled her return to a new English body, and Kwannon is now in the body that Jamie built for Betsy, which then is not her original body. Warren has gotten stuck because he's not a favorite of the current Marvel editors and such.

No she isnt. Kwannon has died and has been resurrected in a new body using her own DNA. Neither character can longer be accused of being in the other's body

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Well she's in that body at best so that neither is in her original body and never will be.

[JB]

The Betsy that Tom knew way back when could be considered long gone. What's odd about CC is that he only broke Warren and Betsy up at all because he was leaving that book and only taking Betsy and Neal. Otherwise that pairing would never have happened. Right now Betsy and Warren aren't desired characters sadly and I'd love to see them lead a team together as a counterpoint maybe to Scott and Jean and such. Both characters could use a fresh start.

The story of high school sweethearts reuniting later in life despite growing up separately is a very real thing. I'm a hopeless romantic, what can I say?

[whitecrown]

The Betsy that Tom knew way back when could be considered long gone. What's odd about CC is that he only broke Warren and Betsy up at all because he was leaving that book and only taking Betsy and Neal. Otherwise that pairing would never have happened. Right now Betsy and Warren aren't desired characters sadly and I'd love to see them lead a team together as a counterpoint maybe to Scott and Jean and such. Both characters could use a fresh start.

He's not an Angel fan. Claremont never liked him much which is why he constantly pitted him against Wolverine as his archrival. When Claremont returned to the X-Books and broke up Warren and Betsy, he apparently said that Warren wasn't good enough for Betsy. Not that Neal was any better since Betsy barely lasted 2 issues before getting killed off and Neal quickly moved onto Lifeguard. He ought to have left well enough alone.

Warren and Betsy have always been the couple who I felt had the most Scott/Jean energy so I would like to see them lead a team. X-Men: Apocalypse also heavily promoted these two and their battle scenes together but of course they completely lacked any characterization or development and so they were wasted. Had they been treated like actual characters, I think it would have been more likely we'd have seen them in an X-Force spinoff movie like was originally rumored and maybe that synergy would have helped grant them more prominence in the comics. Psylocke was also supposed to be part of Dark Phoenix but I'm not sure what her role was supposed to be and if she would be villain or hero.

[whitecrown]

The story of high school sweethearts reuniting later in life despite growing up separately is a very real thing. I'm a hopeless romantic, what can I say?

If Tini Howard actually cared about Betsy and her history, she'd have brought Tom back and could have reunited them. More proof she doesn't understand anything about the character.

[crimsontt]

No she isnt. Kwannon has died and has been resurrected in a new body using her own DNA. Neither character can longer be accused of being in the other's body

Comics are vague and they can do pretty much whatever they want… But just to build on this, we have no proof it’s her own dna that was backed up. Would she have betsy’s telepathy if it wasn’t the mixed up dna they used to resurrect kwannon?

[whitecrown]

Comics are vague and they can do pretty much whatever they want… But just to build on this, we have no proof it’s her own dna that was backed up. Would she have betsy’s telepathy if it wasn’t the mixed up dna they used to resurrect kwannon?

Yeah, if this was really Kwannon's original body untainted, she'd be sorely empathic. Yet she has telepathy and telekinesis? Once more this is proof that Marvel could very easily have divided up Betsy and Kwannon as two separate characters but they went out of their way to give Kwannon elements and traits that come solely from Betsy.

[JB]

If Tini Howard actually cared about Betsy and her history, she'd have brought Tom back and could have reunited them. More proof she doesn't understand anything about the character.

Oh she definitely did and I think the seeds were planted.





He's currently living in Braddock Manor with the family. This was before the green light was given by Marvel to make Betsy and Rachel an official couple but had the request been denied, I think this relationship would have evolved into more. To be clear I like Betsy and Rachel together but if they're not endgame, my vote is for these two to be.