Betsy Braddock: Captain Britain Appreciation 2023

[CGAR]

if we get any appearances this year i will be pleasantly surprised but heres to January 2024.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

Yeah I'm excited too. I like how he's handled Maddie and he has a good grasp of character's voices thus far imo. Seems really promising for whatever he has planned for Betsy to close out her part of the Krakoa era.

To be fair though Betsy didn't have a big part in the Krakoa Era, and appearing doesn't mean headlining a book, and the next set of books could be minis as well. Betsy should get a clear slate and a spot on one of the main teams.

[Wiccan]

I will say I liked how candid he was but I did not agree with what everything he said in the interview.

Actually I'll just say he was plain wrong in saying we only had interest in Betsy as Psylocke and that even X-Men Disassembled fans just wanted the Kwannon version.

I don't think he meant that people who liked her in Disassembled wanted Kwannon, but that Kwannon as Psylocke has more fans than Disassembled Betsy.

I also don't agree with that though. Kwannon only really got popular because Hellions was a fan favorite book overall. Most people just expected her to be a minor character that maaybe someone would pick up after the cliffhanger that she was back.

In response to a reader saying "I'm DYING for info on Rachel and Betsy.....", Chris Hassan said "Then you should probably read tomorrow’s interview."

In other news, commission by Lucas Werneck for NYCC!

I love that her collar is blue, as it was intended on the original design. When it's red the collar + the cape + the X on her chest all mash up together.

[JB]

To be fair though Betsy didn't have a big part in the Krakoa Era, and appearing doesn't mean headlining a book, and the next set of books could be minis as well. Betsy should get a clear slate and a spot on one of the main teams.

To be fair though I'm still excited.

[crimsontt]

Just read jordan’s interview. his level of pragmatism towards betsy kind of hurts…

It was pretty much in our faces

[Knightmare]

Just read jordan’s interview. his level of pragmatism towards betsy kind of hurts…

It was pretty much in our faces

It had to be said! Betsy fans need to be treating Betsy like a brand new character, debuting in Excalibur and reset their expectations. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, her Psylocke persona is what everyone likes about her. That shows in the fact that she could be replaced by Kwannon and become more popular than Betsy in less that 5 yrs.

My prediction, get used to seeing Betsy as a background character.

[CGAR]

Well she was Psylocke before they turned her ninja Asian.

Some of yall really just see it as black and white and thats a shame.

Pull back and really think about it.

Betsy became timid and meek and undecisive during the first few months of the Krakoan era.

That DID NOT help and neither did TH dialogue.

But anyways get the champagne out since everyone thinks she B list now.

Raise your glasses to the one and only Betsy Braddock. Who is Psylocke, Captain Britain and Otheworldian.

Just give her a good fawking writer. Ok im done.

[Hakka84]

It had to be said! Betsy fans need to be treating Betsy like a brand new character, debuting in Excalibur and reset their expectations. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, her Psylocke persona is what everyone likes about her. That shows in the fact that she could be replaced by Kwannon and become more popular than Betsy in less that 5 yrs.

My prediction, get used to seeing Betsy as a background character.

I don't want to agree, but I must. Brutal truth here.

As I said in the X-Men Monday topic:

(...) I understand the need to differentiate her and Kwannon, but pre-HoX Betsy is a product of 40 editorial years - ninja-Betsy included. You can't restore her from a 80s saving point, deleting everything that happened to her after the body-swap - the Betsy that has regained her original body is the same Betsy who wandered around in the body of a ninja for almost 30years. And during those 30years she wasn't just the sexy ninja in the bathing suit. She was at the centre of many plots, or part of others, that changed her - in nature, in how she sees the world or react to things. And Excalibur's Betsy (at least in the first half) wasn't the Betsy we've known so far.

It's just... so wrong, and sad, that long-time fans (or, even, just pre-Krakoa fans) are forced to reset Betsy in order to like her - while some fans, most of them who have known Betsy only from TH's Excalibur, are pandered to with this new character, a mix between a nice tea-sipping young lady* (Kate Middelton-like) and a warrior out of a fantasy RPG game with some "rainbowwashing" because that can never miss in a new character. And if the "old" fans complain, they are either accused of -isms or to be horny for the sexy ninja.

Not counting one or two specific scenes or dialogues in which she felt spot on, TH's Betsy still doesn't sounds like the Betsy I've known. I admit I know little of her pre-Siege, but still... 30 years struck out.

If they want to treat Betsy as a new character who is disconnected from all her past (besides the times in which you want to elevate Kwannon by making a jab about Betsy stealing her body), make it so that she died and was returned blank (in a memory-less!Warren style), so you can keep her name and powers but play with a character you can build, nurture and write as you like. Only then, you can add body dysmorphia, insecurities and all the rest we've seen applied to Betsy in last years. If you want to reset her to remove all the aspects she developed during her "ninja" time, reset her completely.


* I'm still irked by a scene (don't remember if KoX or BB:CB) in which she's outside in a garden walking with Rachel, hand on Rachel's arm, hat on and cute dress like an English princess at an afternoon tea. She is an English aristocrat by birth, sure. But she was never portrayed like that. And if she were, it was the 70s. She's grown out of that skin decades ago.

(better I get of the forum for today. I'm in a sour mood)

[MentalManipulator]

This interview got me really emotional.

Relieved he finally admits defeat. But also so angry that they insisted in the errors. These characters are very important to people and it is very very frustrating when your favorite one gets stripped of all their identity, personality and visually.

I never wanted Betsy to stay in Kwannon's body, fo course not. But I must also confess when I was a kid, it took me a long time to realize she was supposed to be Japanese. I just though she was just another white ninja like so many in the 90's. When I was old enough to realize that was really inappropriate I was always championing for her to be back in her original body and to Kwannon to be her own character again.

That's why the end of MIM and Disassembled seemed so promising to me. Both of them alive, in their own body. Betsy as an evolution of all she went through: experience, trauma, dreams and skills.

So for JDWhite just to say we were not interest that much in her Disassembled days felt a little insulting to us very numerous and vocal fans of that direction of her. It's just that they thought their idea was better, and decides to make it happen. "Stop trying to make Betsy as CB under TH happen, Gretchens!"

I will keep sending in my thought on all of this to them. Kwannon is the versions Psylocke Betsy was but in their own body, ok, it's the lazy and easier route for them. Would have preferred something more original for her also. She deserved better. but now they have to listen to the fandom and understand that we are getting stripped of all we ever like about her. Yes, her old timey CB book days have great stories and all but common, I have an impression the vast majority of us like her as an active member of the X-Men.

Yes, I am glad there are mentions of her appearing. But I'm allowed to feel frustrated and apprehensive because this is not guarantee of character development neither of her having a big role or that they are trying to course correct and learn from some of the (finally admitted) errors of the last two attempts yet.

[mattsarchamp]

JDW has lost it. His grip with the reality is way over his head. He's trying to sell the comics. While I supported Betsy as CB, it has failed as a concept and as a source of revenue. Fans including me didn't like this Betsy as much as we liked in other versions. Standing by with this decision made him sound like a self entitled guy.

He should have understood that they, including TH, should have listened to the fans because they are the ones who are buying the books, their ideas massively failed in many ways and it's time to let it go and move forward to hopefully a good editor and writer.

[JB]

It had to be said! Betsy fans need to be treating Betsy like a brand new character, debuting in Excalibur and reset their expectations. Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, her Psylocke persona is what everyone likes about her. That shows in the fact that she could be replaced by Kwannon and become more popular than Betsy in less that 5 yrs.

My prediction, get used to seeing Betsy as a background character.

I love Kwannon so I don't want to make this a vs situation but how is Kwannon more popular than Betsy? Hellions was the best thing for Kwannon but after it was cancelled at 18 that voice hasn't quite been captured since. Marauders was fine but she was part of a very large cast and it got axed at 12. I'm hoping Duggan does more with her than just killing Orchis agents but so far Uncanny Avengers is not giving and I'm not seeing a demand for more for her. I want her popularity to climb but Marvel seems content with keeping her in the old look and if fans don't demand more then she'll be pigeonholed. Betsy was the lead in 36 issues and X-Men Monday, the direct line to the X-office, keeps getting flooded with messages from fans. Whether we all agree or not on how she's been handled we keep showing up over and over for her. So much so that they had to reveal that Foxe is writing her next, making her one of the only characters confirmed to have a spot post Fall of X. Now Jordan confirmed she's showing up in two places, again because her fans keep demanding more of her.

I don't want to agree, but I must. Brutal truth here.

As I said in the X-Men Monday topic:


It's just... so wrong, and sad, that long-time fans (or, even, just pre-Krakoa fans) are forced to reset Betsy in order to like her - while some fans, most of them who have known Betsy only from TH's Excalibur, are pandered to with this new character, a mix between a nice tea-sipping young lady* (Kate Middelton-like) and a warrior out of a fantasy RPG game with some "rainbowwashing" because that can never miss in a new character. And if the "old" fans complain, they are either accused of -isms or to be horny for the sexy ninja.

Not counting one or two specific scenes or dialogues in which she felt spot on, TH's Betsy still doesn't sounds like the Betsy I've known. I admit I know little of her pre-Siege, but still... 30 years struck out.

If they want to treat Betsy as a new character who is disconnected from all her past (besides the times in which you want to elevate Kwannon by making a jab about Betsy stealing her body), make it so that she died and was returned blank (in a memory-less!Warren style), so you can keep her name and powers but play with a character you can build, nurture and write as you like. Only then, you can add body dysmorphia, insecurities and all the rest we've seen applied to Betsy in last years. If you want to reset her to remove all the aspects she developed during her "ninja" time, reset her completely.


* I'm still irked by a scene (don't remember if KoX or BB:CB) in which she's outside in a garden walking with Rachel, hand on Rachel's arm, hat on and cute dress like an English princess at an afternoon tea. She is an English aristocrat by birth, sure. But she was never portrayed like that. And if she were, it was the 70s. She's grown out of that skin decades ago.

(better I get of the forum for today. I'm in a sour mood)

Whaaaat? I said I was gonna stay out of this but this post is wild and has a lot of generalizations about fans. "I admit I know little of her pre-Siege." I'm glad you said this because describing her "as a new character who is disconnected from all her past" is so far off base. Again, people may not like how it was handled but Betsy was Captain Britain before she was on the X-Men. And even before that she was a famous model while also a spy for her government, two things that have finally been brought back to her story. It was the attack by Slaymaster while she was Captain Britain that led to her losing her eyes, wanting so badly to be a warrior, sending her to Switzerland and then kidnapped by Spiral and Mojo. That trajectory, as Captain Britain, resulted in her moving to the X-Mansion. So in what became a decades long arc, she finally got her second chance to be Captain Britain and get it right this time.

I'm a fan that doesn't fall into your two categories - I've been waiting for her to be out of the Asian body ever since I learned that's what Claremont wanted to do with her before his sudden departure from Marvel. And again during X-Treme X-Men. I never thought it was possible to see her ex-boyfriend Tom again, or Alison, or the others. I actually got teary eyed when the STRIKE team returned and again when they moved into Braddock Manor because that's where Tom and Alison lived before. Where Tom and Betsy grew close because of the trauma they experienced during that time. She's more connected now to her deep past more than ever before. The problem is that some fans only know her as ninja Psylocke when there's so much more to her.

[JB]

This interview got me really emotional.

Relieved he finally admits defeat. But also so angry that they insisted in the errors. These characters are very important to people and it is very very frustrating when your favorite one gets stripped of all their identity, personality and visually.

I never wanted Betsy to stay in Kwannon's body, fo course not. But I must also confess when I was a kid, it took me a long time to realize she was supposed to be Japanese. I just though she was just another white ninja like so many in the 90's. When I was old enough to realize that was really inappropriate I was always championing for her to be back in her original body and to Kwannon to be her own character again.

That's why the end of MIM and Disassembled seemed so promising to me. Both of them alive, in their own body. Betsy as an evolution of all she went through: experience, trauma, dreams and skills.

So for JDWhite just to say we were not interest that much in her Disassembled days felt a little insulting to us very numerous and vocal fans of that direction of her. It's just that they thought their idea was better, and decides to make it happen. "Stop trying to make Betsy as CB under TH happen, Gretchens!"

I will keep sending in my thought on all of this to them. Kwannon is the versions Psylocke Betsy was but in their own body, ok, it's the lazy and easier route for them. Would have preferred something more original for her also. She deserved better. but now they have to listen to the fandom and understand that we are getting stripped of all we ever like about her. Yes, her old timey CB book days have great stories and all but common, I have an impression the vast majority of us like her as an active member of the X-Men.

Yes, I am glad there are mentions of her appearing. But I'm allowed to feel frustrated and apprehensive because this is not guarantee of character development neither of her having a big role or that they are trying to course correct and learn from some of the (finally admitted) errors of the last two attempts yet.

I appreciate you, MM. We may not have agreed on all things Betsy in the Krakoa era but I always feel your posts and your frustration. I sincerely hope whatever comes next for her brings you some enjoyment, truly.

[LoganAlpha30X33]

At times it almost feels like Marvel is trying to act like the last several decades of Betsy was somebody else for the most part, and this Betsy is a continuation of Betsy pre body change.

[JB]

At times it almost feels like Marvel is trying to act like the last several decades of Betsy was somebody else for the most part, and this Betsy is a continuation of Betsy pre body change.

I agree with this and you can tell from JDW's answers when he talks about Kwannon that this decision came from higher ups. He's often speculating in his reponses. Marvel likely gave the order to differentiate them as much as possible. But they understandably didn't want to get rid of ninja Psylocke because of all the licenses and such that have been out there for decades. For Betsy, the X-Office decided to go back and mine from her far past which I think was a smart move even if I didn't always agree with the execution.

I don't know if it's having the effect Marvel corporate wanted or maybe it is. Mobile games, board games, statuettes depicting ninja Psylocke still have her named as Betsy Braddock. So I agree that it's a matter of having their cake and eat it too because they haven't put Kwannon's name out there. This new item is releasing Spring/Summer 2024:

X-Men: The Animated Series - Psylocke Animated Mini Bust



"A Diamond Select Toys release! The X-Men’s resident ninja is coming to the animated universe! Joining the long-running line of mini-busts based on the classic 1990s X-Men: The Animated Series, this approximately 6-inch resin bust depicts Betsy Braddock with her signature psychic blade ignited, ready to face off with the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants. Limited to only 3,000 pieces, and featuring cartoon accurate paint applications, it comes packaged with a numbered certificate of authenticity in a full-color window box. Designed by Barry Bradfield, sculpted by Michelle Varner!"

They're still aiming to make bank on ninja Psylocke while keeping her as Betsy. I can't hate their hustle lol

[Havok83]

The Captain Britain thing should have been a limited status quo in Excalibur to set the stage for XoS. After that crossover, Brian should have been restored as CB and Betsy should have gone back to the trajectoery she was on in Disassembled




in many ways CB felt like a crutch. Her adopting a mantle that existed to someone else instead of forging her own identity post new-body