Tony Stark: The Invincible Iron Man Appreciation 2023

[Digifiend]

Let’s hope it’s a good year for Shell Head and company. With that first issue it’s not looking too good.

Yeah, sadly that issue badly violated continuity by ignoring Cantwell's first arc.

[Tony Stark]

Well, the X-Men connection stuff seems interesting for a single run at least, though I think I'll be putting this new run on the backburner for now.

I’m interested in the X-Men stuff as well. I just don’t want it to over shadow Tony and his journey. I like that he will be helping the mutant community. I thought that would happen after he helped try to track down Wolverines body. So let’s bring it on. I want Tony to put his foot up Feilong’s ass and if it helps the X-Men, that’s beyond satisfying for me.

[Tony Stark]

Yeah, sadly that issue badly violated continuity by ignoring Cantwell's first arc.

Here here. As also MichaelC had stated there were ways he could have easily incorporated Cantwell’s run. It’s so important to this one.

[MichaelC]

To cut-n-paste myself from the earlier thread:

There are two huge continuity goofs in this run (1)Stark not owning Stark Unlimited for years. And (2)the fact that even if he did own Stark Unlimited, the patents for the most dangerous tech would be personal patents, and not company patents.

I can think of an easy way to fix both issues: have Stark see that Stark Unlimited is struggling, and agree to come aboard and sell his personal patents to the company, but only if he is made the CEO. It would seem like a harmless solution to him: it saves Stark Unlimited, gets himself out of poverty, and it's harmless because he still controls those patents via his position of CEO.

Keep in mind, if he doesn't save Stark Unlimited, a lot of people with heavy amounts of the stock in their 401(k)'s and IRA's could get screwed over hard. We're talking about things like having to ration insulin because they don't have enough money for medical bills. People would die.

So from Stark's perspective this is a juggling act that he can almost certainly manage under normal circumstances: sell his patents to Stark Unlimited to get out of poverty, save Stark Unlimited and so save everyone who might die if it went under, and become CEO so those patents never get used for evil.

His life becomes a juggling act, but one he could easily manage under normal circumstances. And then Feilong comes in and trips him while he's juggling chainsaws.

It works because it highlights how Stark is constantly juggling chainsaws in that he has always run his business like a borderline charity. He has a history of buying companies on the verge of bankruptcy to save the jobs of the people employed in those companies, and to save the people dependent on IRA/401(k)'s filled with those stocks to pay their mortgages, medical bills, etc. From a pure business perspective, this is the equivalent of becoming infested with fleas and ticks because you feel bad for the fleas and ticks. He also pays his employees well, which is like giving your chickens delicious food that costs almost as much as you make from their eggs. And he funds the Avengers, and various charities.

Stark has, as a consequence, always done the corporate equivalent of living paycheck to paycheck. Frankly, Stark is a horrible businessman. He's too compassionate to be a good businessman. Being a good businessman is about using information asymmetry to apply agricultural tactics to human capital stock .

He usually gets away with being a horrible businessman because he's an inventing GOD. He can turn his head to the side and cough, and a blueprint worth a fortune will fly out. Stark Industries is a terrible business kept afloat by an insanely overpowered inventive super-genius.

Even so, Stark can only play that card so much, because he can't release his most powerful inventions to the public because they would be weaponized and turn the world into a dystopia. So he has to only sell his safer inventions. So while his inventive super-geniusness compensates for his compassionate, and therefore horrible, business practices TO A DEGREE, it doesn't prevent those compassionate/horrible business practices from making his business very fragile.

So Stark's business is always living paycheck to paycheck and Stark himself is always juggling chainsaws as he tries to save everyone everywhere all at once.

Feilong is just the latest person to trip him while he's juggling chainsaws, exploiting Stark's compassion.

[Huntsman Spider]

To cut-n-paste myself from the earlier thread:

There are two huge continuity goofs in this run (1)Stark not owning Stark Unlimited for years. And (2)the fact that even if he did own Stark Unlimited, the patents for the most dangerous tech would be personal patents, and not company patents.

I can think of an easy way to fix both issues: have Stark see that Stark Unlimited is struggling, and agree to come aboard and sell his personal patents to the company, but only if he is made the CEO. It would seem like a harmless solution to him: it saves Stark Unlimited, gets himself out of poverty, and it's harmless because he still controls those patents via his position of CEO.

Keep in mind, if he doesn't save Stark Unlimited, a lot of people with heavy amounts of the stock in their 401(k)'s and IRA's could get screwed over hard. We're talking about things like having to ration insulin because they don't have enough money for medical bills. People would die.

So from Stark's perspective this is a juggling act that he can almost certainly manage under normal circumstances: sell his patents to Stark Unlimited to get out of poverty, save Stark Unlimited and so save everyone who might die if it went under, and become CEO so those patents never get used for evil.

His life becomes a juggling act, but one he could easily manage under normal circumstances. And then Feilong comes in and trips him while he's juggling chainsaws.

It works because it highlights how Stark is constantly juggling chainsaws in that he has always run his business like a borderline charity. He has a history of buying companies on the verge of bankruptcy to save the jobs of the people employed in those companies, and to save the people dependent on IRA/401(k)'s filled with those stocks to pay their mortgages, medical bills, etc. From a pure business perspective, this is the equivalent of becoming infested with fleas and ticks because you feel bad for the fleas and ticks. He also pays his employees well, which is like giving your chickens delicious food that costs almost as much as you make from their eggs. And he funds the Avengers, and various charities.

Stark has, as a consequence, always done the corporate equivalent of living paycheck to paycheck. Frankly, Stark is a horrible businessman. He's too compassionate to be a good businessman. Being a good businessman is about using information asymmetry to apply agricultural tactics to human capital stock .

He usually gets away with being a horrible businessman because he's an inventing GOD. He can turn his head to the side and cough, and a blueprint worth a fortune will fly out. Stark Industries is a terrible business kept afloat by an insanely overpowered inventive super-genius.

Even so, Stark can only play that card so much, because he can't release his most powerful inventions to the public because they would be weaponized and turn the world into a dystopia. So he has to only sell his safer inventions. So while his inventive super-geniusness compensates for his compassionate, and therefore horrible, business practices TO A DEGREE, it doesn't prevent those compassionate/horrible business practices from making his business very fragile.

So Stark's business is always living paycheck to paycheck and Stark himself is always juggling chainsaws as he tries to save everyone everywhere all at once.

Feilong is just the latest person to trip him while he's juggling chainsaws, exploiting Stark's compassion.

That does make a lot of sense.

[Tony Stark]

Tony is doing some incredible things in the Secret Invasion mini series. Which has been interesting.

[Frontier]

Tony is doing some incredible things in the Secret Invasion mini series. Which has been interesting.

I'd rather see more of that than more of Maria Hill .

[Huntsman Spider]

Tony is doing some incredible things in the Secret Invasion mini series. Which has been interesting.

I'd rather see more of that than more of Maria Hill .

Understandable. I still haven't quite forgiven her for precipitating the original Civil War by trying to have Captain America arrested just for saying he wouldn't comply with and objected to an act that hadn't even become law yet. I mean, for all she knew, he could have just been planning to legally protest and agitate against the SHRA, not lead a guerrilla campaign against it.

[Digifiend]

To cut-n-paste myself from the earlier thread:

There are two huge continuity goofs in this run (1)Stark not owning Stark Unlimited for years. And (2)the fact that even if he did own Stark Unlimited, the patents for the most dangerous tech would be personal patents, and not company patents.

I can think of an easy way to fix both issues: have Stark see that Stark Unlimited is struggling, and agree to come aboard and sell his personal patents to the company, but only if he is made the CEO. It would seem like a harmless solution to him: it saves Stark Unlimited, gets himself out of poverty, and it's harmless because he still controls those patents via his position of CEO.

Keep in mind, if he doesn't save Stark Unlimited, a lot of people with heavy amounts of the stock in their 401(k)'s and IRA's could get screwed over hard. We're talking about things like having to ration insulin because they don't have enough money for medical bills. People would die.

So from Stark's perspective this is a juggling act that he can almost certainly manage under normal circumstances: sell his patents to Stark Unlimited to get out of poverty, save Stark Unlimited and so save everyone who might die if it went under, and become CEO so those patents never get used for evil.

His life becomes a juggling act, but one he could easily manage under normal circumstances. And then Feilong comes in and trips him while he's juggling chainsaws.

It works because it highlights how Stark is constantly juggling chainsaws in that he has always run his business like a borderline charity. He has a history of buying companies on the verge of bankruptcy to save the jobs of the people employed in those companies, and to save the people dependent on IRA/401(k)'s filled with those stocks to pay their mortgages, medical bills, etc. From a pure business perspective, this is the equivalent of becoming infested with fleas and ticks because you feel bad for the fleas and ticks. He also pays his employees well, which is like giving your chickens delicious food that costs almost as much as you make from their eggs. And he funds the Avengers, and various charities.

Tony hasn't funded the Avengers since shortly after Secret Wars, specifically the Rage of Ultron OGN that released during the event and is set in the post-event time skip the monthly comics had. In the All-New All-Different era the three teams each had their own funding - Deadpool funded the Unity Squad (using merchandise income), Sunspot funded the New Avengers and it's successor the U.S.Avengers, and the ANAD Avengers team just had no funding at all - they were unpaid. When Tony was rendered comatose in Civil War II, and the teens left to form the Champions, one of the replacement members was Spider-Man, who had his own firm Parker Industries at the time and became the new team funder, providing a HQ in the Baxter Building, and then when PI went out of business during Secret Empire, Wasp briefly took over, the team moving to the HQ of Nadia's G.I.R.L. organisation. When Deadpool left the Unity Squad, Human Torch took over funding it using the money from the then-believed dead Reed Richards' patents. He set up a company for the purpose, Avengers Mansion Inc. In Avengers No Surrender, the three teams merged. They disbanded at the end of that event and Aaron's team took over. They should still be funded from the company Johnny set up. Tony's Maria Stark Foundation which funded the team before Secret Wars no longer exists.

[Tony Stark]

I'd rather see more of that than more of Maria Hill .

Well you know me. I’m always up for more focus on Tony lol. I think what he’s trying to do is fascinating.

[MichaelC]

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...llain-iron-man

Okay, this again: "Kelvin launched his first public company, which earned $150 million in a single day. However, Kelvin’s fortunes turned when his parents bet against him by shorting his company on the stock market, wiping out most of his assets."

...How? Shorting is just betting against against a stock. Betting against a stock doesn't wipe out its assets. Public knowledge of heavy shorting can sometimes crash the price, but can almost as easily provoke a short squeeze. Even when it crashes the price, that doesn't wipe out the assets of a company with strong fundamentals. In fact, if the company has strong fundamentals, it can actually take advantage of the price crash to do stock buybacks. Shorting is this extremely situational thing that does absolutely nothing to a company 99% of the time, and that one percent of the time it has a very indirect effect that can just as easily be beneficial as destructive.

This aspect of his origin really needs fixing. Something like, he needed to use equity financing to perform some crucial experiment or equipment upgrade, and widespread news of heavy shorting crashed the price just as he was issuing new shares to pay for this, causing the newly issued shares to not sell for nearly enough to pay for the badly needed experiment/upgrade/expansion/whatever. Something to create the sort of specific situation where shorting can sometimes cause indirect harm.

[Huntsman Spider]

https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...llain-iron-man

Okay, this again: "Kelvin launched his first public company, which earned $150 million in a single day. However, Kelvin’s fortunes turned when his parents bet against him by shorting his company on the stock market, wiping out most of his assets."

...How? Shorting is just betting against against a stock. Betting against a stock doesn't wipe out its assets. Public knowledge of heavy shorting can sometimes crash the price, but can almost as easily provoke a short squeeze. Even when it crashes the price, that doesn't wipe out the assets of a company with strong fundamentals. In fact, if the company has strong fundamentals, it can actually take advantage of the price crash to do stock buybacks. Shorting is this extremely situational thing that does absolutely nothing to a company 99% of the time, and that one percent of the time it has a very indirect effect that can just as easily be beneficial as destructive.

This aspect of his origin really needs fixing. Something like, he needed to use equity financing to perform some crucial experiment or equipment upgrade, and widespread news of heavy shorting crashed the price just as he was issuing new shares to pay for this, causing the newly issued shares to not sell for nearly enough to pay for the badly needed experiment/upgrade/expansion/whatever. Something to create the sort of specific situation where shorting can sometimes cause indirect harm.

That would also make sense, especially if the idea was to ultimately proclaim that, like so many of Tony's would-be rivals on the corporate side of things, Feilong wasn't nearly as smart as he'd like to think he was.

[Tony Stark]

That would also make sense, especially if the idea was to ultimately proclaim that, like so many of Tony's would-be rivals on the corporate side of things, Feilong wasn't nearly as smart as he'd like to think he was.

And I’m pretty sure that’s how it will play out here. That Feilong is nowhere near as smart as Tony or as smart as he thinks he is.

[MichaelC]

Well this particular issue is less about anyone's intelligence, as it is about shorting just not being the sort of straight-forward attack it is being treated as.

Let me explain the effects of shorting in simplified terms:

Let's say Feilong wanted to start an onion farm instead of a tech company. Feilong agrees to sell a contract giving 4 percent of his onion harvests forever to whoever will invest in his farm. This is the IPO, which in Feilong's origin got him a 150 million dollars.

Later Feilong's parents decide that they think Feilong is a terrible farmer and make a bet that his farm will go bankrupt. This is what shorting is.

Scenario one: Feilong's farm is very prosperous and everyone knows it. In this scenario, betting against his farm's success has zero effect. Feilong barely notices it happening and doesn't care. Feilong's parents lose their bet.

Scenario two: Feilong's farm is very prosperous, but lots of people hear about Feilong's parents betting that his farm will go bankrupt and believe they must know something secret. These people panic, and sell the contract to receive 4 percent of Feilong's onion harvests for a tiny fraction of what they paid for it. Feilong notices this, and buys out that contract himself for a tiny fraction of what he sold it for in the first place. Now he doesn't have to give anyone 4 percent of his onion harvests. This is called Stock Buybacks. Feilong's parents shorting his stock and provoking a price crash turns out to have helped Feilong tremendously.

Scenario three: Feilong's farm is in sad shape. He needs new tractors, new fertilizer, just new equipment of every sort for his farm to remain competitive. So he decides to sell a second contract for 4 percent of his onion harvests. Now he'll have to give 8 percent of his onion harvests to investors, but it can't be helped. Feilong's parents publicly talk about how they are betting his farm will go bankrupt, but most people think his parents are idiots. Someone buys his contract for 4 percent of his onion harvests for a high price, he uses that money to buy new tractors, fence repair, whatever, and goes back to competitively farming onions.

Scenario four: Feilong's farm is in sad shape. He needs new equipment, barn repair, fencing repair, etc, in order to continue competitively farming onions. He tries to sell a contract giving 4 percent of his onion harvests to someone in return for the up front capital needed to do all this. Feilong's parents publicly announce they they think he is a terrible farmer and will surely go bankrupt soon. Feilong tries to sell another contract for 4 percent of his onion harvests forever in return for up front cash. However, most people believe his parents, and so only offer tiny amounts of money in return for that contract. Feilong's attempt to raise enough money to save his farm via selling this contract fails, and his farm goes bankrupt.

Only in scenario four is Feilong's parents shorting him highly destructive, and only for very indirect reasons. So his origin should be retconned somewhat to make it a scenario four situation.

[ARkadelphia]

Mmmmm. Onions.