Tony Stark: The Invincible Iron Man Appreciation 2023

[Frontier]

https://aiptcomics.com/2023/01/13/ma...-iron-man-2-3/

How would Tony not know what TikTok is? He's not a dinosaur.

What would Riri even do with the Rings?

Really trying to double down on this "rock bottom" status quo, huh.

[Huntsman Spider]

How would Tony not know what TikTok is? He's not a dinosaur.

What would Riri even do with the Rings?

Really trying to double down on this "rock bottom" status quo, huh.

From what I recall of Cantwell's final arc, she was trying to see if she could reverse-engineer the technology from the Makluan Rings formerly wielded by the Mandarin into something that could be used for good purposes for a change.

[Digifiend]

Oh good - Duggan corrected the Stark Unlimited thing, Andy Bhang gives a press conference and states he's the CEO and Tony hasn't been in control of the company for a while.

[Huntsman Spider]

Oh good - Duggan corrected the Stark Unlimited thing, Andy Bhang gives a press conference and states he's the CEO and Tony hasn't been in control of the company for a while.

Yeah . . .

[Frontier]

From what I recall of Cantwell's final arc, she was trying to see if she could reverse-engineer the technology from the Makluan Rings formerly wielded by the Mandarin into something that could be used for good purposes for a change.

Yeah, good luck with that .

[MichaelC]

The Makluans are a mostly peaceful people. There's really no reason why she couldn't reverse-engineer their tech for the good of earth. The Makluans are not Sauron.

[Frontier]

The Makluans are a mostly peaceful people. There's really no reason why she couldn't reverse-engineer their tech for the good of earth. The Makluans are not Sauron.

Maybe, but the tech is more memorable as a weapon.

[MichaelC]

I don't like it when stories make too big a deal out of the rings.

The Mandarin is an organizational genius with superhuman mystic chi martial arts abilities and massive amounts of money. His rings don't need to be a big deal, and, in fact, the best stories about him downplay the rings. For example, in the Dragon of Heaven story, his organization kidnaps Stark and other scientists, and makes them design a two mile long robo-dragon that beats up the Avengers, and the Winter Guard at the same time. He doesn't use his rings once in the entire story, and it is an excellent story.

In another example, he engages in a complex scheme against Stark during the period when he was the Director Of Shield. He uses mostly money, organization, mad science, and devious scheming. The rings are rarely used, and are greatly toned-down and subtle. For example, he creates a psionic illusion of himself looking like Stark and talks Maya Hanson into giving him extremis secrets. The rings are never implied to be cosmic, or corrupting, or impressive in any way. They are the fairly weak tools of an incredible Renaissance Man type of villain with free will, interesting motives, and agency, capable of extracting maximum value out of weak tools because he is that personally brilliant.

THAT'S how The Mandarin should be, not someone zapped into being the host of boring cosmic weapons.

[Tony Stark]

Oh good - Duggan corrected the Stark Unlimited thing, Andy Bhang gives a press conference and states he's the CEO and Tony hasn't been in control of the company for a while.

I’m glad this got addressed as well. It needed to be.

From what I recall of Cantwell's final arc, she was trying to see if she could reverse-engineer the technology from the Makluan Rings formerly wielded by the Mandarin into something that could be used for good purposes for a change.

Which is why I don’t understand why she won’t let Tony help her. I mean who has more experience and knowledge about dealing with the Mandarin and his rings than Tony?! She’s not ready to deal with something like this on her own yet.

[MichaelC]

It's not that she won't let him help her, it's that he doesn't want to help her, because he's being written as a boring stick-in-the-mud with no scientific daring. So he views studying the rings as an act of hubris, and wants the rings to simply be packed away forever. I hate that take on Stark. I prefer the Stark who said, "we're mad scientists, buddy, we gotta own it!" I prefer Stark as a mad scientist in a flying tank forever at war with death, not a priest for the Church of Humility forever telling other scientists "do not do this awesome research! Instead, join me on my knees as we eat cottage cheese and cucumber sandwiches, listen to NPR, and collect stamps."

[Frontier]

I don't like it when stories make too big a deal out of the rings.

The Mandarin is an organizational genius with superhuman mystic chi martial arts abilities and massive amounts of money. His rings don't need to be a big deal, and, in fact, the best stories about him downplay the rings. For example, in the Dragon of Heaven story, his organization kidnaps Stark and other scientists, and makes them design a two mile long robo-dragon that beats up the Avengers, and the Winter Guard at the same time. He doesn't use his rings once in the entire story, and it is an excellent story.

In another example, he engages in a complex scheme against Stark during the period when he was the Director Of Shield. He uses mostly money, organization, mad science, and devious scheming. The rings are rarely used, and are greatly toned-down and subtle. For example, he creates a psionic illusion of himself looking like Stark and talks Maya Hanson into giving him extremis secrets. The rings are never implied to be cosmic, or corrupting, or impressive in any way. They are the fairly weak tools of an incredible Renaissance Man type of villain with free will, interesting motives, and agency, capable of extracting maximum value out of weak tools because he is that personally brilliant.

THAT'S how The Mandarin should be, not someone zapped into being the host of boring cosmic weapons.

I always liked the rings, and I didn't quite like how they used them in Shang-Chi, but to each their own .

Of course I grew up with the cartoons where Mandarin getting them individually in Armored Adventures was a big deal and I think he was collecting them again in season 2 of the 90's show before he made his big comeback.

[Tony Stark]

It's not that she won't let him help her, it's that he doesn't want to help her, because he's being written as a boring stick-in-the-mud with no scientific daring. So he views studying the rings as an act of hubris, and wants the rings to simply be packed away forever. I hate that take on Stark. I prefer the Stark who said, "we're mad scientists, buddy, we gotta own it!" I prefer Stark as a mad scientist in a flying tank forever at war with death, not a priest for the Church of Humility forever telling other scientists "do not do this awesome research! Instead, join me on my knees as we eat cottage cheese and cucumber sandwiches, listen to NPR, and collect stamps."

He doesn’t want RiRi to do it. He literally tells her let’s do it together. Then after he begrudgingly lets her go to work on them after everything.

[MichaelC]

I always liked the rings, and I didn't quite like how they used them in Shang-Chi, but to each their own .

I like them as well, but only at their Silver Age/Knaufs levels.



Here's an example of what I mean: the Mandarin creates some illusions, and the illusions are juuuuust powerful enough to let him get in a cheapshot with his superhuman martial arts abilities while Iron Man doesn't know which Mandarin to dodge. That's so much cooler than if he had overwhelmed Iron Man with Xavier-level psionics, or wrapped the world in a psionic illusion. The rings are cool when they are low-powered tools with just enough OOMPH to COMPLIMENT his personal abilities without rendering his personal abilities SUPERFLUOUS.

In the case of the above, the Mandarin comes across as a next-level version of a ninja, and the rings as next-level versions of a ninja's smoke-bombs and throwing dirt in the other guy's eyes. That's really cool. Mandarin as a Ninja-Lord with a Ninja-Lord's next level tools.

Whereas if you retcon the rings to be cosmic, you destroy all that. The rings no longer compliment his personal abilities, but instead replace them. He ceases to be this brilliant genius schemer with superhuman ninja-lord skills and next level ninja-tools, and becomes this boring Herald of Galactus type. The kind of character who has no scheme, because he is so straight-forwardly powerful that no schemes are needed. Cosmic rings destroys him as a schemer and a martial artist, and it is the fact that he is a schemer and martial artist that makes him interesting.

[K7P5V]

I like them as well, but only at their Silver Age/Knaufs levels.



Here's an example of what I mean: the Mandarin creates some illusions, and the illusions are juuuuust powerful enough to let him get in a cheapshot with his superhuman martial arts abilities while Iron Man doesn't know which Mandarin to dodge. That's so much cooler than if he had overwhelmed Iron Man with Xavier-level psionics, or wrapped the world in a psionic illusion. The rings are cool when they are low-powered tools with just enough OOMPH to COMPLIMENT his personal abilities without rendering his personal abilities SUPERFLUOUS.

In the case of the above, the Mandarin comes across as a next-level version of a ninja, and the rings as next-level versions of a ninja's smoke-bombs and throwing dirt in the other guy's eyes. That's really cool. Mandarin as a Ninja-Lord with a Ninja-Lord's next level tools.

Whereas if you retcon the rings to be cosmic, you destroy all that. The rings no longer compliment his personal abilities, but instead replace them. He ceases to be this brilliant genius schemer with superhuman ninja-lord skills and next level ninja-tools, and becomes this boring Herald of Galactus type. The kind of character who has no scheme, because he is so straight-forwardly powerful that no schemes are needed. Cosmic rings destroys him as a schemer and a martial artist, and it is the fact that he is a schemer and martial artist that makes him interesting.

Hell, yeah! Now you're talking. That's the Mandarin I would like to have seen go up against The Punisher, too bad Rosenberg couldn't quite stick the landing...

[MichaelC]

Rosenberg didn't just not stick the landing, he completely misunderstood Tem Borjigin's powerset. He's a superhuman martial artist who can and has casually dodged multiple bullets. Rosenberg wrote him as if he were some Magneto type.