Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2023

[Paul Nolan]

I think its an antithesis to the backdrop of current affairs in the world.

The darker the real world gets, the lighter the fiction we want to read.

[The_Sneezing_Stormtrooper]

I think its an antithesis to the backdrop of current affairs in the world.

The darker the real world gets, the lighter the fiction we want to read.

Not all horror is dead serious. There is plenty of horror that is fun and even schlocky. The Evil Dead movies come to mind. All that's been said so far is "cosmic horror" and there is a pretty broad range of tones that it could potentially play in without it becoming grimdark and overly serious.

We have no idea what the actual book is going to be like yet.

[Hol]

Rubbish. Williamson converted me to Barry because of his uplifting kind and noble character. It was a good old traditional Flash run and I loved it! I like Adams writing to, but now....

I'm up for something different. Bring on Spurrier's cosmic horror. Maybe we'll get to see Black Flash.

Uplifting? Noble? We must have read different books. That's how Barry was written Pre-Flash Rebirth but not since then.

[Hol]

Barry stopped being the traditional Barry when they slapped a dead mother retcon on his backstory because they didn't know how to make a hero compelling without tragedy.

The best Barry Allen is the one Mark Waid wrote in flashbacks and JLA: Year One.

Waid wrote him even better in Dark Crisis Big Bang. That is the Barry Allen I want to read. Not the guy Johns brought back and Williamson wrote.

[Hol]

I don't think "continuing" is the right word, since the entire reason for this is DC wanting to go in a completely different direction. Perhaps "not destroying what Adams built" would be a better description.

Characterizations staying the same is relative, that can change a lot depending on the writer, and not everyone get the voices of the characters right. Hell, pretty much no one thought very highly of the kids until Adams came and made them likable. That's one of his greatest achievements, that not even Waid of all people could do. I don't expect another writer to write them as well, since it's the Jon Kent situation: Only Tomasi could make him work. Not even Jurgens wrote him as Tomasi did.

I think Waid wrote them good in The Brave and the Bold #8 but yeah no one wrote them as well as Adams. He made me love them.

[Maxi]

I think people are overreacting at the "cosmic horror" part.

It's the fact that Adams was kicked out prematurely from the series what sours everything that's happening.

I wouldn't mind this new run under different circumstances. I'm sure it will turn out to be decent at minimum.

[Maxi]

I think its an antithesis to the backdrop of current affairs in the world.

The darker the real world gets, the lighter the fiction we want to read.

Were the 80s optimistic though? I only knew them through the idealized version of comfy Hollywood movies, but I happen to recall people saying they thought the world was gonna end in a freaking nuclear war.

The 90s were kind of a lull of relative optimism between the end of the Cold War and 2001.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Were the 80s optimistic though?

No. The 80's were hell. People were only able to cope with the decade by gargantuan amounts of cocaine. Those of us who were kids back then are all traumatized.

[Frontier]

Uplifting? Noble? We must have read different books. That's how Barry was written Pre-Flash Rebirth but not since then.

I know he was a sad sack a decent portion of the run but I think he still had his uplifting and noble moments. Otherwise I don't see much difference between Williamson's Barry and other Barry's, though I guess he was more consistent with Wally.

[D.Z]

I think its an antithesis to the backdrop of current affairs in the world.

The darker the real world gets, the lighter the fiction we want to read.

Can list several ways the world has gotten better over the decades.

[Waterfall]

We have no teaser, no panel, not a single page...nothing!

All the freak out over n-o-t-h-i-n-g!

At the end of the day this is a comic book series. Jeremy Adams will revisit Flash down the line, he's not going anywhere else. I mean, look at that, Waid is coming back after 15 years.

[millernumber1]

We have no teaser, no panel, not a single page...nothing!

All the freak out over n-o-t-h-i-n-g!

At the end of the day this is a comic book series. Jeremy Adams will revisit Flash down the line, he's not going anywhere else. I mean, look at that, Waid is coming back after 15 years.

I have explained why I am disappointed, and isn't nothing. There is nothing wrong with being excited about the new run. No need to strawman those who disagree with you.

[Captain Nostalgia]

I find fascinating how much the taste of the audience has changed. In the 80s and 90s people wanted everything to be dark, serious and grounded. They were ashamed of the sillier elements of superhero comic books. Silver Age elements became the stuff of shame. There even were reactionary works such as Morrison's Animal Man criticizing this approach. Now they want it to be fun, lighthearted, whimsical and with a sense of wonder, Silver Age sensibilities were vindicated, and any mention of a darker tone or words such as "horror" turns on the alarm. Late 90s were kind of a transition point I think, with books such as Morrison's JLA, Busiek's Avengers, Waid's Flash, Supreme and Astro City as the heralds of change.

There does seem to be a generational change, one could say the late 80's to mid 90's was peak darkness for DC comics, and by the late 90's we had the shift. That being said, a lot of people advocating for a lighter tone on social media tend to be middle age adults, who give the impression of.....being more value driven.

Personally i just want good writing, light or dark, I can roll with either one.

I think of it more as people suggesting to DC what they're willing to pay for.

at the end of the day true influence comes from the dollars spent on the comics, but when DC so overtly changed direction by changing writers to Jeremy Adams on Green Lantern, and the new Flash #1 is not due until September. I'll make it known what my preferences are before hand.

and its not saying any writer Shouldnt be writing a comic. Its expressing that the direction is not what they want to read. Those are the chances you take when you elevator pitch to the audience so far in advance.

By all means you have every right to do that, I vote with my wallet all the time.....the power of the wallet is an amazing thing, DC can't tell you what to buy.

I mentioned that I didn't think it was DC's intent to put Adams on the Flash long term, but he did better than what anyone expected. Sadly it wasn't reflected in the sales. (Personally I don't think it had anything to do with his ability; I'm so happy he's on GL)

I would at least give the new series a chance though, particularly if your a fan of Wally West. When it comes to my favourite characters I always give a new series a go before I drop it.

There are writers at DC that would have me hitting the panic button if they were put on the Flash....Spurrier isn't one of them, neither is Tom King. I'm ready to take the plunge into the cosmic horror, indeed if that's what were getting at all.

[Maxi]

Can list several ways the world has gotten better over the decades.

I mean, people always tend to think they live in the worst era that ever existed, until they think about what would it be to live in the 1800s or the middle ages lol.

There surely is a lot of fucked up shit in the world right now, but the 1940s were still a thousand times worse (and I say this as someone who loves the idealized 1940s shown in films and comics). Even with all that's happening right now, the worlds still seems like a peaceful place compared to back then.

But I don't want to dreail the conversation, since my point was how tastes changed for some reason. I'm old enough to remember a time when people wanted grittier superhero comics, and it wasn't THAT long ago, I'm talking about early to mid 2000s.

[Maxi]

We have no teaser, no panel, not a single page...nothing!

All the freak out over n-o-t-h-i-n-g!

At the end of the day this is a comic book series. Jeremy Adams will revisit Flash down the line, he's not going anywhere else. I mean, look at that, Waid is coming back after 15 years.

Sure, as I said, IMO the problem is not that Spurrier is writing the series. In fact, looking at reviews of Spurrier's previous work, it has a higher chance to be good than bad. The problem here is how what happened to Adams' run soured the experience and is making people not care.

Also, I do hope he can find some vindication down the line as you're saying. If he can't come back on a regular basis, perhaps in the form of ocassional mini-series.