Wally West: The Flash Appreciation 2023

[Paul Nolan]

It is strange how in just a few years the hardcore Wally West fans here have gone from being ecstatic about a Scott Lobdell & Brett Booth mini-series to disappointed about a Si Spurrier & Mike Deodato ongoing series.

I understand the disappointment over a run ending before the writer would have preferred, but the next run could still be good.

"Cosmic Horror" & "Twisted realms" in the description for the new series.

That's simply not the type of book I want to read.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Williamson's run was not happy apple pie. It was 90% Barry angsting.

Rubbish. Williamson converted me to Barry because of his uplifting kind and noble character. It was a good old traditional Flash run and I loved it! I like Adams writing to, but now....

I'm up for something different. Bring on Spurrier's cosmic horror. Maybe we'll get to see Black Flash.

[Maxi]

Rubbish. Williamson converted me to Barry because of his uplifting kind and noble character. It was a good old traditional Flash run and I loved it! I like Adams writing to, but now....

I'm up for something different. Bring on Spurrier's cosmic horror. Maybe we'll get to see Black Flash.

Barry stopped being the traditional Barry when they slapped a dead mother retcon on his backstory because they didn't know how to make a hero compelling without tragedy.

The best Barry Allen is the one Mark Waid wrote in flashbacks and JLA: Year One.

[BohemiaDrinker]

Not a lot from Deodato on Flash, but he stressed both the cosmic horror part and the fact that nothing that was established in the current run will change. The status quo remains as is, and the characterizations do as well. The team is aware about the disappointment causes by Adams departure as well.

[Captain Nostalgia]

Barry stopped being the traditional Barry when they slapped a dead mother retcon on his backstory because they didn't know how to make a hero compelling without tragedy.

The best Barry Allen is the one Mark Waid wrote in flashbacks and JLA: Year One.

The best Barry Allen stories are pre 85, during the bronze age.

Williamson's run was terrific, I also enjoyed Adams writing, but just couldn't make the switch over back to Wally.

Now that they are rebooting back to issue 1, shouldn't be too hard, I'm looking forward to it.

[millernumber1]

Not a lot from Deodato on Flash, but he stressed both the cosmic horror part and the fact that nothing that was established in the current run will change. The status quo remains as is, and the characterizations do as well. The team is aware about the disappointment causes by Adams departure as well.

I am glad to hear that the team continuing to be classy about the fact that they are taking over from a beloved run, and there seems to be some attempt at continuing the things we like from the current run.

[Maxi]

I am glad to hear that the team continuing to be classy about the fact that they are taking over from a beloved run, and there seems to be some attempt at continuing the things we like from the current run.

I don't think "continuing" is the right word, since the entire reason for this is DC wanting to go in a completely different direction. Perhaps "not destroying what Adams built" would be a better description.

Characterizations staying the same is relative, that can change a lot depending on the writer, and not everyone get the voices of the characters right. Hell, pretty much no one thought very highly of the kids until Adams came and made them likable. That's one of his greatest achievements, that not even Waid of all people could do. I don't expect another writer to write them as well, since it's the Jon Kent situation: Only Tomasi could make him work. Not even Jurgens wrote him as Tomasi did.

[millernumber1]

I don't think "continuing" is the right word, since the entire reason for this is DC wanting to go in a completely different direction. Perhaps "not destroying what Adams built" would be a better description.

Characterizations staying the same is relative, that can change a lot depending on the writer, and not everyone get the voices of the characters right. Hell, pretty much no one thought very highly of the kids until Adams came and made them likable. That's one of his greatest achievements, that not even Waid of all people couldn't do. I don't expect another writer to write them as well, since it's the Jon Kent situation: Only Tomasi could make him work. Not even Jurgens wrote him as Tomasi did.

Well, I agree with most of what you say, I'm more saying it doesn't sound like this is going to be a Bendis type of situation where they kill, get rid of, or age up the kids immediately upon starting their run.

[Maxi]

Not a lot from Deodato on Flash, but he stressed both the cosmic horror part and the fact that nothing that was established in the current run will change. The status quo remains as is, and the characterizations do as well. The team is aware about the disappointment causes by Adams departure as well.

It seems DC was completely aware of how well liked the run was, and procedeed to go ahead anyway.

I wouldn't want to be on Spurrier shoes right now. Poor guy isn't to blame. He was just offered a job in the middle of a freaking war zone between fans and editorial and he's doing everything he can to reassure people. I'm sure whatever he does won't be on bad faith, just his take on the character the way he knows how to write. But he WILL inevitably be compared with the previous run and he knows.

Adams had nothing to compare himself to since he was inheriting crap, and the last good Wally run was 15 years ago lmao

But had Adams been allowed to end on his terms, it would have been a completely different story.

The only solace I can possibly find in this is that, when Wally was the main Flash, he almost always had been blessed with amazing writers. Hopefully the trend continues here.

[Maxi]

Btw, unrelated to Flash but any word on Waid's World's Finest? That's my other favorite title and now I'm scared they can end it too lol. But this being Batman and Superman I suppose it's safer.

Edit: Nevermind, I just asked Mark on Facebook and he told me he's staying, thank heavens.

[Lee]

"Cosmic Horror" & "Twisted realms" in the description for the new series.

That's simply not the type of book I want to read.

That's fair! It's not the direction I want for The Flash either, not long-term anyway. But I'm willing to give it a chance.

But going back to what I said, "cosmic horror" and "twisted realms" could just as easily describe the Flash Forward mini-series, which people were stoked for at the time. (I thought it was rather poor, but I didn't like the creative team. Great covers though.)

[Captain Nostalgia]

Bit surprised by all the negativity, but I think two things are driving it.

1) I don't think DC ever intended for Jeremy Adams to be on the Flash long term. They probably hired him to fill in the gap until they rebooted the series. He just happened to be a stronger writer than anyone expected. (which is why he's being put on GL)
and why fans are upset.

2) The second reason bugs me, because I've noticed it's tubers & people on reddit trying to use their influence to dictate what the tone and mood of DC comic stories should be.

"Simon Spurrier shouldn't be on the Flash because his writing is too dark."
"Tom King shouldn't be on Wonder Woman because he engages in character assassination."

R you kidding me? They are strong writers. If someone wants to critisize writers for poor performance I'm all for it (I can think of a few stinkers at DC) but I don't want someone telling me what the mood and tone for a comic should be.

I can take my Green Arrow as a jolly Robin Hood, or I can take him shooting arrows through peoples limbs.
Likewise, I can take my Flash with fun rogues and Keystone City blue skies, or I can get down with some cosmic horror & twisted realms....it's all good.

[Mantis-Ray]

Thinking about it considering One-Minute War specifically got sales to really shoot up for Adams run, it stands to reason DC would prolly want Adams to make a continuation to it afterwards.

Like as noted the decision to change to Spurrier was made before OMW began but considering how well its been doing one could imagine that could heighten the chance for Adams to return to the character in some manor via a OMW sequel.

[Paul Nolan]

Bit surprised by all the negativity, but I think two things are driving it.

1) I don't think DC ever intended for Jeremy Adams to be on the Flash long term. They probably hired him to fill in the gap until they rebooted the series. He just happened to be a stronger writer than anyone expected. (which is why he's being put on GL)
and why fans are upset.

2) The second reason bugs me, because I've noticed it's tubers & people on reddit trying to use their influence to dictate what the tone and mood of DC comic stories should be.

"Simon Spurrier shouldn't be on the Flash because his writing is too dark."
"Tom King shouldn't be on Wonder Woman because he engages in character assassination."

R you kidding me? They are strong writers. If someone wants to critisize writers for poor performance I'm all for it (I can think of a few stinkers at DC) but I don't want someone telling me what the mood and tone for a comic should be.

I can take my Green Arrow as a jolly Robin Hood, or I can take him shooting arrows through peoples limbs.
Likewise, I can take my Flash with fun rogues and Keystone City blue skies, or I can get down with some cosmic horror & twisted realms....it's all good.

I think of it more as people suggesting to DC what they're willing to pay for.

at the end of the day true influence comes from the dollars spent on the comics, but when DC so overtly changed direction by changing writers to Jeremy Adams on Green Lantern, and the new Flash #1 is not due until September. I'll make it known what my preferences are before hand.

and its not saying any writer Shouldnt be writing a comic. Its expressing that the direction is not what they want to read. Those are the chances you take when you elevator pitch to the audience so far in advance.

[Maxi]

I find fascinating how much the taste of the audience has changed. In the 80s and 90s people wanted everything to be dark, serious and grounded. They were ashamed of the sillier elements of superhero comic books. Silver Age elements became the stuff of shame. There even were reactionary works such as Morrison's Animal Man criticizing this approach. Now they want it to be fun, lighthearted, whimsical and with a sense of wonder, Silver Age sensibilities were vindicated, and any mention of a darker tone or words such as "horror" turns on the alarm. Late 90s were kind of a transition point I think, with books such as Morrison's JLA, Busiek's Avengers, Waid's Flash, Supreme and Astro City as the heralds of change.