HAVOK, aleX summers, marvel comiX mutant cosmic neXus appreciation 2023

[Havok83]

Please read the letters page for X-Men #57. Readers were confused as to how Havok could be graduating college when he's younger than Cyclops and Cyclops definitely wasn't as old as 21 or 22 at that point. The letters page confirmed that Iceman was still 18 (his birthday was in UXM #32) and that the rest of the O5 are 19-20. Havok's age is given as 18-19 and that he graduated high school early, started college at 16 and graduated college in three years by taking summer courses. Havok's age was 18-19 when he graduated college.

This would have been another way to have Alex stand out from Scott's shadow, not only that he was smarter and had a degree that could help him have a profession in real life, but also that he could potentially have been a prodigy or at least of a higher intelligence level than most.

Im of the mindset that if it didnt happen/revealed on panel then its not canon and that includes letter pages. I can almost guarantee you that no writer is referencing those when it comes to writing characters, hence why it shouldnt be a shock that it hasnt come up again

Which is funny because even though Alex is the younger brother, he was the more athletic one. His debut had Scott note that Alex was a natural athlete at college so one would think in a fight that Alex would have the physical advantage. For the scene you're referring to, I don't remember the exact issue either but I'm pretty sure it occurred in Inferno because I remember that moment where Scott thinks about how he used to beat up on Alex. Nice guy.

Re-reading Havok's debut, it's pretty telling that there's even a scene where Scott lashes out at the Egyptian police and calls them "camel-jockeys" so another difference between him and Alex is that Alex isn't prone to casual racism. Very strange that I see contemporary X-Men fans try to cancel Jean, Kitty, Rogue, or Betsy for racism but nobody's called out Scott on this. Not to mention the way X-Fans lashed out at Alex's speech in Uncanny Avengers and tried to brand him a bigot but ignore Scott's actual words and actions.

The ages vary but generally speaking they were seperated when they were 6 and 8. Alex grew into his athletic prowess but as a 6 year old, he wasnt gonna take on his older brother

[whitecrown]

Im of the mindset that if it didnt happen/revealed on panel then its not canon and that includes letter pages. I can almost guarantee you that no writer is referencing those when it comes to writing characters, hence why it shouldnt be a shock that it hasnt come up again



The ages vary but generally speaking they were seperated when they were 6 and 8. Alex grew into his athletic prowess but as a 6 year old, he wasnt gonna take on his older brother

That's not far off from how modern-day writers operate with the mentality that they can ignore anything that's said or done on-panel for the sake of whatever they want to write. It's this lack of consistency and continuity which is why comic books are a niche market now, only kept up by the few who still regularly buy them.

I find it all very disturbing. For someone who's supposed to be a paragon of virtue, the fact that Scott was a bully to his younger brother and would regularly beat up on him and even seems to take pride in remembering this years later makes me wonder how much morality he ever really had. You don't hear stories about Jean, Piotr, or Betsy bashing up their siblings. Even looking at the non-mutant characters, I've never heard of Sue and Johnny regularly taking a whack at each other from six years of age. Or Wanda and Pietro. Or Franklin and Valeria or even the Power Pack siblings.

Perhaps the reason fellow bully Nathaniel took an interest in Scott instead of Alex is because he recognized a kindred spirit in Scott, someone with the capacity to abuse and inflict violence and harm.

[TheDeadSpace]

Maybe they'd just explain it away as Scott beat the intelligence out of him. Don't remember what issue it was but in a thought bubble Scott remembered that he used to settle arguments with Alex when they were younger was to just start punching Alex until he gave in.

Does anyone actually have this panel, if it exists?

Rather weird assumptions being made considering the ages, if I'm being honest.


That aside, I feel like Havok needs a team to lead on his own. Something a bit more solid than what he has currently.

[whitecrown]

I found it. It wasn't in Inferno as I originally thought but in X-Tinction Agenda.

[TheDeadSpace]

I found it. It wasn't in Inferno as I originally thought but in X-Tinction Agenda.

Considering the context, it seems very different than what was implied. It also doesn't seem like it was one sided or as brutal. Just seems to imply they fought each other when young.

[whitecrown]

Considering the context, it seems very different than what was implied. It also doesn't seem like it was one sided or as brutal. Just seems to imply they fought each other when young.

I don't get those vibes at all. In this fight, Alex specifically notes that Scott is hammering him with his fists. He doesn't mention hitting back or defending himself, just that Scott is physically the one who initiates and continues the attack. And Scott states that this is nothing new for him, because he's had a past history of "pounding some sense" into Alex's head and how Scott employed this technique (if you can call it that) as a way of getting Alex to submit or listen. Scott never mentions that Alex used this back on him or that this physical violence reciprocated. It's clear from the dialogue that this was something Scott used to keep Alex in line meaning from a young age, he employed physical violence on someone who was smaller, younger, and who looked up to him for care and protection. I find it very disturbing because it shows that Scott had little regard for his younger brother and resorted to violence over anything else. In makes me wonder what Xavier saw in Scott to appoint him team leader if this was Scott's pattern in dealing with others or any form of dissent.

Suddenly, I feel a lot less sympathetic towards Scott when he talked about being bullied by Nathan in the orphanage. It seems like karmic justice now that Scott spent his childhood beating up on someone smaller than him and that ironically enough, in the orphanage someone who is actually physically smaller than Scott would beat up on him. Perhaps he learned his lesson from that experience but going by this panel, that doesn't seem to be the case. I've been re-reading Silver Age X-Men recently and I noticed even there that Scott has very little patience with Bobby and often resorts to physical violence, even his optic blasts. It's one thing to call out Bobby for being immature or childish, but another to resort to physical violence. One can't even attribute this behavior of Scott's to his being orphaned, repressed, and inability to control his powers because clearly this pattern of beating down on smaller people he feels he can get away with was long before he was orphaned and his powers activated. Perhaps it was this behavior which made it so easy for Sinister to get Alex adopted away from Scott, if young Alex reported in questionings that his older brother in a coma had a habit of bashing him up for whatever reasons. There is nothing in the panel above that seems to indicate that this questionable behavior of Scott's was something Alex did back to Scott. And even if so, there's the imbalance of power between the two as Scott is the older brother. Even if both brothers were physical towards each other, any parent would reprimand Scott more since he's older and should know better, but like I said, the panels don't even indicate that Alex was ever physical back, even to defend himself. It's Scott who did all the pounding and he even seems to take a perverse pleasure in it.

[TheDeadSpace]

I don't get those vibes at all. In this fight, Alex specifically notes that Scott is hammering him with his fists. He doesn't mention hitting back or defending himself, just that Scott is physically the one who initiates and continues the attack. And Scott states that this is nothing new for him, because he's had a past history of "pounding some sense" into Alex's head and how Scott employed this technique (if you can call it that) as a way of getting Alex to submit or listen. Scott never mentions that Alex used this back on him or that this physical violence reciprocated. It's clear from the dialogue that this was something Scott used to keep Alex in line meaning from a young age, he employed physical violence on someone who was smaller, younger, and who looked up to him for care and protection. I find it very disturbing because it shows that Scott had little regard for his younger brother and resorted to violence over anything else. In makes me wonder what Xavier saw in Scott to appoint him team leader if this was Scott's pattern in dealing with others or any form of dissent.

Suddenly, I feel a lot less sympathetic towards Scott when he talked about being bullied by Nathan in the orphanage. It seems like karmic justice now that Scott spent his childhood beating up on someone smaller than him and that ironically enough, in the orphanage someone who is actually physically smaller than Scott would beat up on him. Perhaps he learned his lesson from that experience but going by this panel, that doesn't seem to be the case. I've been re-reading Silver Age X-Men recently and I noticed even there that Scott has very little patience with Bobby and often resorts to physical violence, even his optic blasts. It's one thing to call out Bobby for being immature or childish, but another to resort to physical violence. One can't even attribute this behavior of Scott's to his being orphaned, repressed, and inability to control his powers because clearly this pattern of beating down on smaller people he feels he can get away with was long before he was orphaned and his powers activated. Perhaps it was this behavior which made it so easy for Sinister to get Alex adopted away from Scott, if young Alex reported in questionings that his older brother in a coma had a habit of bashing him up for whatever reasons. There is nothing in the panel above that seems to indicate that this questionable behavior of Scott's was something Alex did back to Scott. And even if so, there's the imbalance of power between the two as Scott is the older brother. Even if both brothers were physical towards each other, any parent would reprimand Scott more since he's older and should know better, but like I said, the panels don't even indicate that Alex was ever physical back, even to defend himself. It's Scott who did all the pounding and he even seems to take a perverse pleasure in it.

A lot of that seems out of context, so respectfully I disagree and I'll leave it there.

This is Havok's thread after all.


To everyone else: I'm sorry if I caused an unwanted tangent, but I do hope Havok gets more stable writing in the future. I can't say I'm a fan of his current direction all that much.

[whitecrown]

A lot of that seems out of context, so respectfully I disagree and I'll leave it there.

This is Havok's thread after all.


To everyone else: I'm sorry if I caused an unwanted tangent, but I do hope Havok gets more stable writing in the future. I can't say I'm a fan of his current direction all that much.

And that's perfectly alright if your interpretation differs from mine.

I don't think it's off-topic though because it concerns Scott and Alex's relationship and this was already the topic of discussion here before you posted, so it wasn't you who made the thread go on a tangent if that makes you feel better.

I haven't been following the current X-books so I'm not sure of what Alex's role is besides being in a relationship with Maddie in Dark X-Men, but I agree that I would like to see him in a different role. For me, preferably a more central role like in Uncanny Avengers where he really took the spotlight as an A-lister. I like his relationship with Maddie but it only seems to reinforce the idea that he's a watered down version of Scott.

[JB]

I'm very curious to see what the incident in today's Dark X-Men may possibly mean for Alex going forward, if it will have lasting magical effects and what not. I liked his quiet conversation with Feint and I hope we see them connect more because ultimately he would love to be someone for younger mutants to look up to.

[Thirteen]

I found it. It wasn't in Inferno as I originally thought but in X-Tinction Agenda.

I don't get those vibes at all. In this fight, Alex specifically notes that Scott is hammering him with his fists. He doesn't mention hitting back or defending himself, just that Scott is physically the one who initiates and continues the attack. And Scott states that this is nothing new for him, because he's had a past history of "pounding some sense" into Alex's head and how Scott employed this technique (if you can call it that) as a way of getting Alex to submit or listen. Scott never mentions that Alex used this back on him or that this physical violence reciprocated. It's clear from the dialogue that this was something Scott used to keep Alex in line meaning from a young age, he employed physical violence on someone who was smaller, younger, and who looked up to him for care and protection.

Alex literally says "...we've FOUGHT like this before...", not "...he's beaten me like this before..."

[whitecrown]

Alex literally says "...we've FOUGHT like this before...", not "...he's beaten me like this before..."

Alex is brainwashed and has no memories here. He's starting to remember fighting Scott and the last time they had a physical fight like this was in UXM #97, when Alex was also brainwashed.

Also note that he thinks "why does this seem so familiar," when Scott has just smashed his head back onto the ground a second time. So if we're going by your interpretation, that he's remembering fighting Scott as a child like this, that means what he's specifically remembering is big brother smashing little brother's head against a hard substance repeatedly. It's also possible to fight someone while being the clear loser of the fight and barely getting any blows in.

[Cubbyboo]

Alex is brainwashed and has no memories here. He's starting to remember fighting Scott and the last time they had a physical fight like this was in UXM #97, when Alex was also brainwashed.

Also note that he thinks "why does this seem so familiar," when Scott has just smashed his head back onto the ground a second time. So if we're going by your interpretation, that he's remembering fighting Scott as a child like this, that means what he's specifically remembering is big brother smashing little brother's head against a hard substance repeatedly. It's also possible to fight someone while being the clear loser of the fight and barely getting any blows in.

I think this Dark X series has the potential for Alex to really elvolve into his own with Maddie. Maddie is definitely her own unqiue character and nothing like Jean. Even her abilities come across differently combined with her own powerful dark magic. He should also be given the chance to stand out and evolve even farther and forever be free from any shadow cast by his brothers.

[EmeraldGladiator]

I think this Dark X series has the potential for Alex to really elvolve into his own with Maddie. Maddie is definitely her own unqiue character and nothing like Jean. Even her abilities come across differently combined with her own powerful dark magic. He should also be given the chance to stand out and evolve even farther and forever be free from any shadow cast by his brothers.

I hope so if the book is elevated to an ongoing or Alex, Maddy, Warren, Remy and Maggot are moved to a Hellions type ongoing, the writer will probably (hopefully) be motivated to make Alex his own man, since there wouldn't be a need to prop Scott up if he isn't in that particular book. Writers have tried to in the past, I remember Thunderbird II saying he prefered Alex's brand of leadership over most other X-leader types. I took that as while Scott is protrayed as follow my orders and back to the danger room, Alex while a leader elicits opinins from other members of his squad and gives them credence. I don't want Alex subservient to Maddy but he understands that Maddy because of her history really needs agency in the world and he is more than happy to be the COO to her CEO when it comes to leading the team.

[Havok83]

I dont like how Alex was revived with dark magic and dont trust it. It feels very unnatural and I feel it will come back to bite him. Its demonic and he has Limbo magic running through him

[EmeraldGladiator]

In story I don't like it either but I get the feeling Foxe really went Universal Studios classic monsters for a theme for this mini so Alex's monster motif is zombie. Hopefully both he and Warren will be back to normal by stories end.