Earth's Mightiest Heroes - The Avengers Appreciation 2023

[Frontier]

You'd think Ultron would be super obsessed with Hanks biological kid.

[Galerion]

Avengers #3 Corner Box Variant cover by Mark Brooks
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...nkId=216462909

[K7P5V]

You'd think Ultron would be super obsessed with Hanks biological kid.

I know, right?! Will wonders never cease...

[Frontier]

Avengers #3 Corner Box Variant cover by Mark Brooks
https://www.marvel.com/articles/comi...nkId=216462909

Nice lineup!

[Tien Long]

Hi all. As we're discussing Hank Pym, I thought it would be a good time to share the latest Death Battle episode featuring him taking on The Atom:



I think it's a good summary of Hank's abilities. I knew about Scientist Supreme, but didn't know about some of Hank's other feats. It's a good match overall.

As for Hank's current state, I'd like the whole Pymtron situation to be resolved. Hank is a great character and from reading the comments, I'd like to see that meeting between him and Nadia.

[Tien Long]

Been catching up on some old Avengers stories recently. I finished reading the Kree/Skrull War and was satisfied overall. Definitely some classic scenes from there. Indeed, I've read about Vision confessing his feelings for Wanda or Rick Jones unleashing the untapped power of all human beings:



But what got me was the Senator Craddock subplot, where a U.S. politician accuses the Avengers of alien sympathies:



This causes the Avengers to be ostracized by the public. That was intriguing stuff. The parallels to McCarthyism are very much there. The bigger tension of Avengers harboring aliens was fascinating. Avengers being mistrusted? That was more of an X-Men or Spider-Man thing.

Of course, the big twist was that Craddock was a Skrull all along. Really appreciated how this was summed up from the ordinary person's perspective in The Marvels mini:

[Tien Long]

Final thoughts today for the Avengers:

I enjoyed issue #1. It's a good return to superheroics and a fresh start. McKay focuses on Carol's leadership, which is pretty cool. Her analysis and decision making show how great of a leader she can be. Looking forward to the next issue.

[Nomads1]

This is an image of my childhood that has stuck with me throuout the years (although the first time I saw it WAS in a reprint book).

Peace

[Frontier]

Been catching up on some old Avengers stories recently. I finished reading the Kree/Skrull War and was satisfied overall. Definitely some classic scenes from there. Indeed, I've read about Vision confessing his feelings for Wanda or Rick Jones unleashing the untapped power of all human beings:



But what got me was the Senator Craddock subplot, where a U.S. politician accuses the Avengers of alien sympathies:



This causes the Avengers to be ostracized by the public. That was intriguing stuff. The parallels to McCarthyism are very much there. The bigger tension of Avengers harboring aliens was fascinating. Avengers being mistrusted? That was more of an X-Men or Spider-Man thing.

Of course, the big twist was that Craddock was a Skrull all along. Really appreciated how this was summed up from the ordinary person's perspective in The Marvels mini:

Man, Alex Ross drawing the Avengers...

[Sutekh]

Hi all. As we're discussing Hank Pym, I thought it would be a good time to share the latest Death Battle episode featuring him taking on The Atom:



I think it's a good summary of Hank's abilities. I knew about Scientist Supreme, but didn't know about some of Hank's other feats. It's a good match overall.

As for Hank's current state, I'd like the whole Pymtron situation to be resolved. Hank is a great character and from reading the comments, I'd like to see that meeting between him and Nadia.

It is interesting to me how DC and Marvel focus on (or neglect) different powered archetypes.

DC has the Flash, and Marvel has Quicksilver, and the Flash is hands-down the more developed character, with a family, multiple legacies, past and future, a TV series, a movie appearance, soon a movie of his own, etc. Quicksilver has a few movie appearances (in the last of which he died), and a legacy (Tommy, Speed), that he met once and has been more or less ignored (even more than the rest of the YA).

Marvel on the other hand has dove deep on their 'shrinking guy', and Pym is the one with multiple movie appearances, multiple legacies or spin-offs (multiple Ant-folk, multiple Giant/Goliath-folk, another Yellowjacket, some Wasps, Jocasta, etc.), while the Atom, kind of languishes by comparison, despite both him and his legacy (Ryan Choi) appearing in Arrow & Legends. Hank Pym, despite being dead in the comics, feels like he has gotten ten times the development that Ray Palmer has gotten.

[Tien Long]

It is interesting to me how DC and Marvel focus on (or neglect) different powered archetypes.

DC has the Flash, and Marvel has Quicksilver, and the Flash is hands-down the more developed character, with a family, multiple legacies, past and future, a TV series, a movie appearance, soon a movie of his own, etc. Quicksilver has a few movie appearances (in the last of which he died), and a legacy (Tommy, Speed), that he met once and has been more or less ignored (even more than the rest of the YA).

Marvel on the other hand has dove deep on their 'shrinking guy', and Pym is the one with multiple movie appearances, multiple legacies or spin-offs (multiple Ant-folk, multiple Giant/Goliath-folk, another Yellowjacket, some Wasps, Jocasta, etc.), while the Atom, kind of languishes by comparison, despite both him and his legacy (Ryan Choi) appearing in Arrow & Legends. Hank Pym, despite being dead in the comics, feels like he has gotten ten times the development that Ray Palmer has gotten.

Interesting observation. It's fascinating to see which characters get emphasized. Ostensibly, the power sets are similar, but that does not necessarily mean both characters will get the spotlight. A lot of factors at play there, but I think that it comes down to character. Writers have found some kind of interesting character traits, explored them, and that builds interest for future creators to explore the idea further.

[Tien Long]

You'd think Ultron would be super obsessed with Hanks biological kid.

Here's hoping that Marvel writers expand on that story point in the future.

[Sutekh]

Interesting observation. It's fascinating to see which characters get emphasized. Ostensibly, the power sets are similar, but that does not necessarily mean both characters will get the spotlight. A lot of factors at play there, but I think that it comes down to character. Writers have found some kind of interesting character traits, explored them, and that builds interest for future creators to explore the idea further.

Yeah, some of it can be boiled down to Hank being a more complicated (and therefore interesting) character than Ray, but Pietro, IMO, is equally more interesting than Barry, and pfft, fat lotta good that did him!

There's also the 'only so much X in the room' problem that happens with some characters, and not others. It feels like other people are allowed to be 'the smart one' right beside Tony (McCoy, Pym, Banner, T'Challa, Reed, even Parker, on his good days) and while Tony can be a jerk to work with, he doesn't (usually) suck up all the 'smart' oxygen in the room, while it sometimes feels like anyone who is smart on the Justice League (Ray, Ralph, Ronnie/Stein, even Barry or Kal, who get to be smart in their own books) gets downplayed so that Batman can be 'the smart one.' Which is weird, because Batman is super popular, and still would be without such aggressive niche protection, IMO.

Another oddity would be characters, in this case, Avengers (cause, hey, topic!) who are competent experienced and respected heroes on the team, but then get a solo and degenerate into screw-ups and bumblers, such as Scott Lang, Dane Whitman or Clint Barton, all of who have had solos recent(ish)ly in which they were kind of inept and not well-regarded by their Avengers peers. That bugs me. In Dane and Clint's cases, they have, IIRC, *led* teams. And then they are sort of dropped into the Homer Simpson role, the funny loser screw-up who means well, but mostly stumbles their way into success despite themselves.

[ARkadelphia]

Been catching up on some old Avengers stories recently. I finished reading the Kree/Skrull War and was satisfied overall. Definitely some classic scenes from there. Indeed, I've read about Vision confessing his feelings for Wanda or Rick Jones unleashing the untapped power of all human beings:



But what got me was the Senator Craddock subplot, where a U.S. politician accuses the Avengers of alien sympathies:



This causes the Avengers to be ostracized by the public. That was intriguing stuff. The parallels to McCarthyism are very much there. The bigger tension of Avengers harboring aliens was fascinating. Avengers being mistrusted? That was more of an X-Men or Spider-Man thing.

Of course, the big twist was that Craddock was a Skrull all along. Really appreciated how this was summed up from the ordinary person's perspective in The Marvels mini:

No spoilers!

[Reviresco]

It is interesting to me how DC and Marvel focus on (or neglect) different powered archetypes.

DC has the Flash, and Marvel has Quicksilver, and the Flash is hands-down the more developed character, with a family, multiple legacies, past and future, a TV series, a movie appearance, soon a movie of his own, etc. Quicksilver has a few movie appearances (in the last of which he died), and a legacy (Tommy, Speed), that he met once and has been more or less ignored (even more than the rest of the YA).

Marvel on the other hand has dove deep on their 'shrinking guy', and Pym is the one with multiple movie appearances, multiple legacies or spin-offs (multiple Ant-folk, multiple Giant/Goliath-folk, another Yellowjacket, some Wasps, Jocasta, etc.), while the Atom, kind of languishes by comparison, despite both him and his legacy (Ryan Choi) appearing in Arrow & Legends. Hank Pym, despite being dead in the comics, feels like he has gotten ten times the development that Ray Palmer has gotten.

Interesting observation. It's fascinating to see which characters get emphasized. Ostensibly, the power sets are similar, but that does not necessarily mean both characters will get the spotlight. A lot of factors at play there, but I think that it comes down to character. Writers have found some kind of interesting character traits, explored them, and that builds interest for future creators to explore the idea further.

Yeah, some of it can be boiled down to Hank being a more complicated (and therefore interesting) character than Ray, but Pietro, IMO, is equally more interesting than Barry, and pfft, fat lotta good that did him!

It isn't about character or their traits. Like Pietro and Barry, Namor is infinitely more interesting than Aquaman, who is a rare DC knock off of a Marvel character, so much so, that Aquaman has been revised several times to be more like Namor, right up to the movie, when they cast Momoa. The problem is with editorial, which after Stan Lee and Roy Thomas, basically abandoned Namor. Editorial has their favorites, and they push them, and they have characters they don't like or indifferent to, and they languish. Ditto creators, but they don't usually have the pull of editorial.

Unlike Marvel, DC has long realized the potential of Aquaman, and has supported the character consistently. Ditto Flash and Green Arrow and Green Lantern, etc. DC has a bigger picture take, than Marvel does, on it's characters and books, cause they aren't bean counting as much. Marvel will throw stuff at the wall, but if there isn't an immediate return, they usually drop it, except for their faves. Also Marvel favors teams more than DC, and not every team character is a solo character. But that means Marvel has a larger bench, than DC, who focus on a smaller number of characters.