Bruce Banner, The Incredible Hulk Appreciation 2023

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

I think the problem with PAD's Maestro mini is that he just had no clear idea how to execute Bruce's turn to evil.

After all, maestro was about sloth. Half of what made him so terrible was that he could have given the survivors a much better life, but couldn't be bothered.

PAD had the abstract idea, but no concrete plan, IMO.

No clear idea and completely lackluster and underwhelming.
Maybe it was my fault in believing that those minis would be like the Hulk's version of the "Dark Phoenix Saga", but everything that we'd been led to believe for his decent into madness was...puny.
I did enjoy the final mini, but the hype didn't live up to the final product.
For me, anyway.

[The Cool Thatguy]

No clear idea and completely lackluster and underwhelming.
Maybe it was my fault in believing that those minis would be like the Hulk's version of the "Dark Phoenix Saga", but everything that we'd been led to believe for his decent into madness was...puny.
I did enjoy the final mini, but the hype didn't live up to the final product.
For me, anyway.

Some stories are best left untold, IMO.

The biggest flaw IMO was not establishing Banner's status qou, emotionally, before moving forward. What was his situation before AIM shoved them in a basement?

He didn't seem to much care about Betty, Samson or anyone.

[ChrisIII]

I always thought there was kind of a bit more Joe in Maestro, like the Joe side of the merged gaining more control. Look at the first Vegas cover (347) and how Maestro is first introduced for example; the two don't really seem that different, Joe always seemed the most hedonistic of the Hulks . Maestro is also a bit greyer and has Joe's heavy brows whereas Professor/merged basically has a more Banner-shaped head.

I know it's not really supported by PAD's intent or anything, just kind of my thoughts on it.


Granted, Joe as a character has developed a lot since then and also before the merger (especially in regards to Betty).

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Incredible Hulk #457
“Of Course You Realize This Means War!”
Cover Date: October 1997
Sale Date: August 20th, 1997
Writer: Peter David
Artist: David Brewer
Inker: Cam Smith
Letterer: John Workman
Colorist: Jessi Kindzierski and Digital Chameleon
Editor: Bobbie Chase
Guest Stars/Supporting Cast: Janis and Rick Jones, General Ross, the Absorbing Man, Juggernaut, Ozymandias,
Villain: Apocalypse
Synopsis: Between flashbacks of Apocalypse’s early life, we see the Juggernaut battling the Hulk while Rick, Janis, and the Absorbing Man try to figure out alternative methods of breaking him free of the Horseman spell. The Hulk is giving the Juggernaut a run for his money, and Creel steps up to help…much to his regret. Janis gives them a moment’s respite, and Rick makes an attempt to reason with the Hulk…and is swatted aside instead. Janis watches in horror as Rick awkwardly slams into a wall of rubble. She cries out in anger at the Hulk, who then succumbs to a verbal lashing from the ghost of his father. He lashes out in revulsion and anger, tearing off the War armor and helmet and leaps away as Apocalypse gets one up on the New World Order.
Commentary: Here comes the fill-in artist! I give him shit about being inconsistent on his Wolverine and Hulk runs, but apparently there was a very good reason for it. And while I cannot find the interview, and it’s possible my timeline for it is all out of whack, but I had read that Adam was also helping out at the Kubert School of Art. Which makes me feel bad for giving him shit. Two years after this came out, deeply entrenched in my first tenure at Micron, I was still having aspirations of becoming a comic book artist. My cousin gave me some extra money for Christmas and I applied at the Kubert School for a penciling course. Got my kit and I eagerly turned in my first assignment. A few weeks later, I get my D- grade and harsh criticism. Disheartening for sure, but used it to improve on my second assignment. Half-way through, my coworkers had made it a regular thing to go skiing after our work-week ended – and thus ended any hopes of becoming an artist, LOL!
While it’s not explicit in this issue, Rick becomes paralyzed from this hit and we find out that this is the Hulk’s fault. A nice callback in the narration back to issue #314 about the Hulk killing the deer too. Again, the whole Hulk is War felt too forced, there was no long-term ramifications (if you look at from the 2023 POV instead of 1997) and this felt like backwards fan-service to see who was stronger between the Hulk and Juggernaut.

[ChrisIII]

Do any of the Horseman transformations really stick around apart from Archangels? I'm pretty sure half the other X-men have had them now but it's pretty much treated as just another weekend instead of life-altering like it used to be (or still is with Warren).

[Vordan]

Do any of the Horseman transformations really stick around apart from Archangels? I'm pretty sure half the other X-men have had them now but it's pretty much treated as just another weekend instead of life-altering like it used to be (or still is with Warren).

Warren’s stuck because he’s always been the most boring of the O5 and his transformation made him “cooler”. Hulk was never going to be permanently changed by an X-Men villain since he was already a big deal on his own.

[Vordan]

Newsarama: David, we've been friends for a long time, and we've talked comics a lot - but never really in depth about the Hulk. What were your thoughts when you were asked to do a Hulk story?

David Pepose: Honestly, the first reaction was pure, abject fear. (Laughs) The Hulk feels like such an unknowable character to me, you know? He's like a force of nature, but one that also represents one of the most blinding emotions in the human experience — pure, uncut, white-hot rage.

That's a character that can be really intimidating to dig into and explore — and that's BEFORE trying to live up to the legacy of creators like Peter David, Al Ewing, Greg Pak, and Donny Cates.

But thankfully, I realized there was a fun way to explore that fear of the Hulk by examining him almost at a remove — to show the long-term consequences of someone like the Hulk existing, as well as the real-world dangers of someone having to survive in the middle of a Hulk-fueled rampage.

https://www.gamesradar.com/the-hulk-...ign=socialflow

[Intothevoid]

I am not really digging the artwork tbh, Hulk looks more cartoonish/goofy than he does scary. So the horror vibes immediately go out the window. With that said the premise is decent and it's just a one-shot annual so it ultimately doesn't matter. I am more interested in the 5 pages in it that show a preview of the PKJ Hulk series that is to come.

[Lukmendes]

Speaking of Cates run, goddamn his Hulk sales are great!

Is everyone in this thread just a vocal minority? I’m reminded of the Spider-Fandom. Everyone on Twitter and CBR hates Wells’ ASM, but you certainly wouldn’t know that looking at these sales charts. I never hated Cates Hulk the way some seemed to, but I certainly thought it was a step down from Ewing. Guess not many other people share that opinion. I’d be curious to know if among actual Hulk fans pulling the book, which do they prefer, Ewing or Cates? Because I honestly think there might be a chance more people prefer Cates to Ewing. Crazy as hell to me but again, maybe my perceptions are all off because of who I interact with.

Spidey sells because he's Spidey, it doesn't matter just how crap the quality is, it's gonna sell.

Hulk though, are his sales usually on this level? 'Cause if not then this is odd, makes me wonder if people actually like this run, or if there's something else keeping it around, like say, people still liking Cates after his Venom run (Even though I feel its quality became whatever after the first arc), or Otley's art, or perhaps even a mix of these options.

Ewing>>David>>Pak>>Mantlo>>Jenkins>>Stern>>Wein>>D uggan>>Loeb>>all other Silver/Bronze Age writers>>>>>>Cates>>>>Waid>>>>Jones>>>>>Aaron

Cates had an interesting idea and at the concept level, the idea worked on paper, but the execution was very poor, sloppy and boring.
By far one of the worst Hulk runs in modern history.

And yes, Cates still sells comics, there is nothing wrong with that, and there is nothing wrong if someone likes his Hulk, to each his own

What I saw of Bruce Jones' run looked alright for the first issues at least.

Still, Waid and Aaron even worse than Cates? If that's an overall agreed opinion then it's kinda surprising, 'cause Cates isn't telling a bad Hulk story, he's telling a bad story lol.

Aaron I can see why, he's Aaron, but Waid is surprising, though I did hear he doesn't like the Hulk so I wonder why Marvel even had him writing the Hulk...

I just finished that Planet Hulk: Worldbreaker mini myself haha. Sadly another reconfirmation that once a creator does a seminal run on a character and steps away, they should not return because it’s never as good as you’d hope. Don’t know what Pak was aiming for but the whole thing felt like a cash grab, and even PAD’s minis have given off that vibe too.

From what I've been hearing, DeMatteis' stories with Spidey have been pretty good.

Though I'd have to confirm myself if they're fun shit, at least, he's probably having a better handle on the characters.

So yeah, sometimes writers can return and do good shit, but generally, probably not, at some point you run out of ideas lol.

[CitizenXXX]

Waid is a great legendary writer, but the Hulk is just not his character. While I generally liked his take on Bruce, I don't like the Hulk at all as a soulless green machine with no personality.

It's just my opinion - essentially the same claim against Bruce Jones, except that I don't like his Hulk just like his Bruce. I will say this - Jones run was saved by very good artists, but, perhaps, none of his cold, heavy, dark stories I like. And I'm usually against big retcons, like the great Tempest Fugit turned out to be, but in the end, anyway, we ended up in a better place.

Aaron, like Cates, had a good idea, but he killed his own story, unfortunately.

[Intothevoid]

Waid was just the wrong writer for Hulk. I don't even blame him, i blame the editors that basically forced him to do it. It's been over a decade yet i still remember the interview Waid did like a year or so before his Hulk run when no one knew he was gonna write Hulk yet. He was asked which character he would NOT want to write and his answer was Hulk. He just had no interest in the character or really understood him. And then because Aarons run was cut short, the editors panicked and put Waid on Hulk. The rest is history.

[McFarlane's Green Hulk]

Incredible Hulk #458
“Crash and Burn”
Cover Date: November 1997
Sale Date: September 17th, 1997
Writer: Peter David
Artist: Adam Kubert
Inker: Mark Farmer
Letterer: John Workman
Colorist: Digital Chameleon
Editor: Bobbie Chase
Guest Stars/Supporting Cast: Betty Banner, Janis, Rick and Marlo Jones, Henry Gyrich,
Antagonist: Mr. Hyde, Mercy
Synopsis: Fresh from his fight as War against the Juggernaut and the Absorbing Man, the Hulk has stowed away on a 757 aircraft headed for New York City, hiding in the luggage compartment. His state of mind is teetering on the brink of madness, as he’s trying to suppress the guilt of injuring the closest friend he’s had in his entire existence. He starts to lash out and then breaks into the passenger area. An odd green glow is surrounding his body and he’s having strange flashbacks of older foes mixed in with Apocalypse. Back in Cairo, we see Betty, Marlo and Henry Gyrich at a hospital that is taking care of Rick. Cut back to the airplane, and we see one of the passengers transform into Mr. Hyde. Mercy makes her presence known and then directs him towards the Hulk. A quick cut to Cairo reveals the doctor’s prognosis about Rick’s injury and Janis deduces that this is how her grandfather became paralyzed. Back on the plane, Hyde and Hulk are going at it, nearly tearing the plane apart. The issue ends with Hyde being sucked out the side, tearing off a wing in the process. The Hulk, his head clear once more, is trying to safely guide the plane to a smooth landing while telling off his ghostly father.
Commentary: Other than the random Hyde and Mercy appearances, not too bad of an issue. The art is decent and the revelation of Rick’s injury seems like PAD was trying to guide things back to his intentions pre-Onslaught. The whole Brian Banner ghost thing…meh.

[ChrisIII]

Dematteis's second run on Spectacular Spider-Man was a bit weak compared to his first, but I think he agrees with that.

[Vordan]

[Intothevoid]

Peter Davids health hasn't been great these last few years and because of that he has piled up a lot of hospital bills. So anyone that can spare any money to donate to the family, feel free to do so.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/peter-dav...term=undefined

Without PAD there wouldn't be the Hulk that we know and love today. Also gotta say how shameful it is that Marvel really doesn't take care of their writers/editors/artists, etc... the way they deserve.