Young Avengers Appreciation 2023

[Digifiend]

True - had Hank been Ant-Man in the first film, then Cassie wouldn't be a superhero yet (she'd only just be getting introduced if this was Scott's debut, so she'd be a preteen). Though she'd probably also be seeing more usage in the comics because Nadia probably wouldn't exist if Hope wasn't in the movies... might even have got the solo book Nadia got (which was originally pitched to DC as a Bumblebee series).

[ComicNoobie]

True - had Hank been Ant-Man in the first film, then Cassie wouldn't be a superhero yet (she'd only just be getting introduced if this was Scott's debut, so she'd be a preteen). Though she'd probably also be seeing more usage in the comics because Nadia probably wouldn't exist if Hope wasn't in the movies... might even have got the solo book Nadia got (which was originally pitched to DC as a Bumblebee series).

Cassie might not have benefited if they used Hank first at least in that scenario. They would likely have retired Scott and kept Cassie dead after CC and revert Hank back to Ant-Man in the comics with Janet as the only female Wasp for synergy. Cassie's current situation in the comics isn't great due to the MCU giving Scott a Wasp and the Ant-Family in general is underutilized, but it could have been worse.

As a Young Avengers fan I'm bias so for me we got the better deal as Cassie is now finally ready to be a hero and that's what I've been waiting for since the first Ant-Man. It does suck for Janet/Wasp though. The best solution would have been to have Hank/Janet get a movie around the time Steve and Thor did, be in the first Avengers movie as Ant-Man and Wasp, Hank becomes Yellowjacket in Age of Ultron, and by 2015 pass the Ant-Man moniker to Scott as originally happened while Hank remains active as Yellowjacket on the Avengers with Scott doing the more street-level/heist shrinking stuff his character is known for. This way you could have had Hank, Janet, Scott, and Cassie all be active superheroes for Quantumania to fight Kang and MODOK. They can even have Red Queen Hope as a multiverse opponent lol.

But however they went about it I want what's best for Cassie because again "Young Avengers bias"

[Drops Of Venus]

Cassie might not have benefited if they used Hank first at least in that scenario. They would likely have retired Scott and kept Cassie dead after CC and revert Hank back to Ant-Man in the comics with Janet as the only female Wasp for synergy. Cassie's current situation in the comics isn't great due to the MCU giving Scott a Wasp and the Ant-Family in general is underutilized, but it could have been worse.

This is probably correct. I remember they resurrected her in the comics around the same time we found out she was gonna be in the MCU. So yeah, an Ant-Man franchise without Cassie in the MCU could've been bad for her in terms of synergy. Nadia got the attention because she was the counterpart of someone in the MCU, and Cassie wouldn't even have that, so I don't have a lot of hope that she would've taken the spotlight during that time. They probably would've just pushed Janet more.

[legion_quest]

Yeah, it's annoying as a fan to see Cassie, Billy, Tommy and Eli (and America and even a Kid Loki!) introduced, without any real indication of a plan to bring them together as the Young Avengers.

Plus no Teddy, which makes me want to riot. (Although the Marvels seems like the perfect place to introduce him.)

Then again, hype too soon, turning to resentment as months turn into years, is worse than hype too late I guess.

I feel like maybe some plans have changed.

There are rumours that they may be going the teen route with the X-Men, and maybe deciding to do that meant they didnt want to have two teen groups going at the same time.

[ComicNoobie]

This is probably correct. I remember they resurrected her in the comics around the same time we found out she was gonna be in the MCU. So yeah, an Ant-Man franchise without Cassie in the MCU could've been bad for her in terms of synergy. Nadia got the attention because she was the counterpart of someone in the MCU, and Cassie wouldn't even have that, so I don't have a lot of hope that she would've taken the spotlight during that time. They probably would've just pushed Janet more.

Her dying in the comics really cutoff her momentum. Before that she was one of the more active Young Avengers during the classic issues. There were times she was used more then Kate which is actually shocking when you look at it today. When the MCU started to take off with the 2012 Avengers movie, the Young Avengers ended nearly around the same time if not sooner and status quos were returned. Kate Bishop, Wiccan and Hulkling were the only ones to remain active and gained bigger fanbases by being in the Young Avengers relaunch and other titles to boost their characters. They are the trinity and the main faces of the Young Avengers because they lasted. I'm so happy they at least have get positive attention.

Patriot, Speed and Cassie fell into obscurity and never truly recovered and remained largely unused after the classic series ended. The Astonishing Ant-Man brought Cassie back but brought her down to level 1 and more as motivation for Scott rather then her own character. Things were looking up when she became Stinger but a number of things hindered it. I swear I could just write in essay on "the rise and fall of the Young Avengers" and MCU synergy is part of the problem, especially for Cassie.

This is why Quantumania is so important for me. This has to save Cassie from the bad hand she's been dealt for years. But I'm also worried. If there truly is no Young Avengers project coming in the MCU then Cassie is likely just going to stay Scott's partner. Normally that wouldn't be a bad thing but can they juggle both her and Wasp? I love the Ant-Family so I'd hope so.

[Magmaster12]

Does anyone know if those Microverse characters from the Dark Reign tie-in were Quantamania?

[walk]

Just got out of Quantumania don't get the Rotten Tomatoes score personally as I found the film perfectly fine overall, the MCU has released far worse.

Cassie herself gets a good showing unlike Chavez in MoM who was more a plot device that needed to be protected than a character Cassie actually gets fleshed out a fair bit and you get a decent sense if her personality, her and Scott's relationship is very much the heart of the movie, she even gets to partake in the fights and be contributing member of the team.

Looking forward to seeing more of her and left the film more hopeful about the eventual YA project than I have anything else MCU, I definitely get sense the teams formation will be tied to them taking on Kang in someway.

[ComicNoobie]

Just finished my Quantumania review in another thread and now it's time to talk about the most important thing in the movie.

spoilers:

Cassie! CASSIE! CASSIE! This was the only thing I truly cared about from Quantumania. Kathryn Newton got so much unnecessary hate from a recast that was not her fault. Did she deliver? Did Quantumania give me Cassie Lang? The answer...is yes. But it could have been more. Kathryn Newton in my opinion did a good job for what her role was in the movie. She got some very good stand out moments. She had a enjoyable chemistry with Paul Rudd and her actions in the movie did feel like things Cassie would do in the comics and for that I was very happy. Her joining a protest and fighting for those that need help and wanting to be a hero while also trying to make her dad proud? That oozes the formula that makes Cassie. I am happy she got to grow giant and beat up MODOK. Her first superhero victory, I'm so happy! I loved when she reunited with Scott while both were giant as their conversation grew super silly. Their bond was the heart of the movie for me and I cannot wait to watch all her scenes again. And no name for Stature or Stinger yet, but it was her first time being a hero. I do wish we got to explore more of her though. Like explain how she made her suit. Why she choose her now super iconic converse chucks. Show her at the protest before getting arrested. And if Scott will now train her as a Young Avenger. Speaking of which I wish when Scott asked her if she made any friends in jail she would have said "Tommy" just as a easter egg for us nerds looking for stuff like that. I loved her role in the movie and can't wait to see her return. I really hope her next appearance has a Kate Bishop sighting. Come on Marvel. While I do think there is room for improvement, Cassie has arrived!

end of spoilers

[Digifiend]

I've not seen the film, but I hear Cassie is a teen genius in it? That doesn't match the comics. Mark Waid was named under special thanks in the credits - he created Nadia and I can't think what else he has to do with the Ant-Man franchise. I think they merged Cassie and Nadia for the movies (Cassie's family relationships and hairstyle, Nadia's intellect and hair colour), since adapting Nadia directly is impossible due to her originally being intended as Hope's counterpart (Hope's more like comics Janet). Maybe this is why Cassie has no codename. Because the fourth film would be Ant-Man and the Wasps - i.e. Cassie sharing Hope's name like how Janet and Nadia share the mantle in the comics.

[Chris0013]

I've not seen the film, but I hear Cassie is a teen genius in it? That doesn't match the comics. Mark Waid was named under special thanks in the credits - he created Nadia and I can't think what else he has to do with the Ant-Man franchise. I think they merged Cassie and Nadia for the movies (Cassie's family relationships and hairstyle, Nadia's intellect and hair colour), since adapting Nadia directly is impossible due to her originally being intended as Hope's counterpart (Hope's more like comics Janet). Maybe this is why Cassie has no codename. Because the fourth film would be Ant-Man and the Wasps - i.e. Cassie sharing Hope's name like how Janet and Nadia share the mantle in the comics.

Please excuse me while I have a conniption and scream AAAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH!!!! over this theory.

[ComicNoobie]

I've not seen the film, but I hear Cassie is a teen genius in it? That doesn't match the comics. Mark Waid was named under special thanks in the credits - he created Nadia and I can't think what else he has to do with the Ant-Man franchise. I think they merged Cassie and Nadia for the movies (Cassie's family relationships and hairstyle, Nadia's intellect and hair colour), since adapting Nadia directly is impossible due to her originally being intended as Hope's counterpart (Hope's more like comics Janet). Maybe this is why Cassie has no codename. Because the fourth film would be Ant-Man and the Wasps - i.e. Cassie sharing Hope's name like how Janet and Nadia share the mantle in the comics.

Don't make me despise Nadia lol. I do like her but I would despise this choice. Thankfully I don't see them going this route. Cassie is Cassie. She's brunette because that's how she's been previously cast in the movies. Once Kathryn Newton settles more into the role I'm willing to bet they'll allow her to be blonde like the comics. Despite the color difference Cassie has always worn her hair like that. I also believe many are overblowing her intellect in the movie. She's smart but doesn't seem anywhere on par with Marvel's top geniuses. I would not rank her with Shuri or Riri. In the comics she's started a internship with Pym Labs so her science background, while recent, is a thing while still being herself. And finally Cassie becoming the Wasp just robs her of her identity. She's not the Wasp she is Stature and/or Stinger. And while those might just be fancy Giant Man and Wasp monikers they are still her titles and I feel it would be a disservice to Cassie to just stamp Wasp on her rather then give her her own name.

Personally I don't think they are adapting Nadia without multiverse shenanigans. Whether it was intended or not, Hope is her representation. The only Cassie/Nadia connection can I see is the step-mother/daughter relationship Hope and Cassie can share.

[Drops Of Venus]

I've not seen the film, but I hear Cassie is a teen genius in it? That doesn't match the comics. Mark Waid was named under special thanks in the credits - he created Nadia and I can't think what else he has to do with the Ant-Man franchise. I think they merged Cassie and Nadia for the movies (Cassie's family relationships and hairstyle, Nadia's intellect and hair colour), since adapting Nadia directly is impossible due to her originally being intended as Hope's counterpart (Hope's more like comics Janet). Maybe this is why Cassie has no codename. Because the fourth film would be Ant-Man and the Wasps - i.e. Cassie sharing Hope's name like how Janet and Nadia share the mantle in the comics.

I haven't watched the movie yet either, but isn't it possible that Mark Waid got credits because the concept of Ant-Man and Wasp going on a Microverse adventure might've been loosely inspired by his 2018 Ant-Man & Wasp book? I remember they credited Kieron Gillen and Jamie McKelvie on the Loki show, but they didn't really directly adapt anything from Young Avengers, and I suspect the only reason why they did that it's because Kid Loki was there. I think they basically just take ideas from a bunch of different comics, and any creator who was involved in those comics gets a special thanks. But yes, I guess it is possible they took some character traits from Nadia and gave them to Cassie, but I wouldn't necessarily call it a character merge. I think she will always be more Cassie than Nadia, because there isn't really room for a character like Nadia in the MCU. I don't think they would feel the need to label her Wasp either.

[walk]

I've not seen the film, but I hear Cassie is a teen genius in it? That doesn't match the comics. Mark Waid was named under special thanks in the credits - he created Nadia and I can't think what else he has to do with the Ant-Man franchise. I think they merged Cassie and Nadia for the movies (Cassie's family relationships and hairstyle, Nadia's intellect and hair colour), since adapting Nadia directly is impossible due to her originally being intended as Hope's counterpart (Hope's more like comics Janet). Maybe this is why Cassie has no codename. Because the fourth film would be Ant-Man and the Wasps - i.e. Cassie sharing Hope's name like how Janet and Nadia share the mantle in the comics.

This sort amalgamation of characters in adaptions is common but Cassie gaining a "Wasp" identity and powerset Stinger happened several months before Nadia own debut and she has been steadily becoming more and more of a science-type/inventor in the comics as well long before this movie.

[Frontier]

"She's a sweet kid" Well yeah, I guess you're now an adult woman with a bestie who is still a high school student and continually drawn like she's 15 .

[Digifiend]

Cassie spending time as a corpse would explain that (Cassie is apparently still 16). She didn't age while she was dead. Same reason why over at DC Supergirl is apparently 21 when she's been shown recently to be active when Dick was still Robin (which means her pre-crisis and 2000s selves have been merged, and her death in Crisis counts again) and why Barry Allen and Wally West appear to be the same age (Barry also died in Crisis and came back in the 2000s, so Wally aged up and he didn't).