Young Avengers Appreciation 2023

[ComicNoobie]

Is it just me or it feels like the Quantumania promos seem to be highlighting Scott's relationship with Cassie more than his relationship with Hope? Like this car ad doesn't even have Hope in it:



I wonder if this might end up with Cassie upstaging the Wasp in her own film. She never really stood out that much, even with her name in the title of the franchise, and now that she might have to ''compete'' with another female lead, things might get even worse for her. To be honest, I don't care that much because I'm a Young Avengers fan first and Cassie is much more of a partner for Scott than any Wasp ever has been in the comics. I just feel bad for Wasp fans, because Marvel really fumbled the adaptation of the first female Avenger.

Ant-Man and Stinger Quantumania. Cassie is reclaiming her birthright. She was the closest thing Scott had to his own Wasp before Nadia. Personally I always saw Hope as a placeholder sadly. Cassie was the natural partner for Scott, always has been, but they wanted a Wasp for Ant-Man. Now that Cassie is active in movies and games they can finally synergize that in the comics and give her more attention that she's craved. As for Hope she can still be Scott's partner when Cassie's off with the Young Avengers...but when she's not, better shrink aside cause this is the M-Cassie-U now.

It sucks for Wasp but that ship sailed when Janet wasn't Wasp. Hank and Janet deserved better and should have been part of that first Avengers team in 2012. But as a Young Avengers fan I cannot say Cassie getting more of the partner role doesn't make me happy. I'm unapologetically bias! So sacrifices being made for her rise must happen!

[Frontier]

Spoiler from a new Quantumania clip released on a talk show

spoilers:

Cassie references when Yellowjacket tried to kill her as a kid and said she never had a normal life. This echoes her statement to Jessica Jones in the Young Avengers special saying that as Ant-Man's daughter she never had a normal life. It's a small thing but as a Young Avengers fan I love the subtle if not indirect nod to this.

end of spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHf_w6mhoWY

spoilers:

I get where she's coming from but isn't Yellowjacket holding her hostage probably the craziest thing that's happened to her? Other than the Snap.

end of spoilers

Is it just me or it feels like the Quantumania promos seem to be highlighting Scott's relationship with Cassie more than his relationship with Hope? Like this car ad doesn't even have Hope in it:



I wonder if this might end up with Cassie upstaging the Wasp in her own film. She never really stood out that much, even with her name in the title of the franchise, and now that she might have to ''compete'' with another female lead, things might get even worse for her. To be honest, I don't care that much because I'm a Young Avengers fan first and Cassie is much more of a partner for Scott than any Wasp ever has been in the comics. I just feel bad for Wasp fans, because Marvel really fumbled the adaptation of the first female Avenger.

They just released a promo that's focused more on Hope and her relationship with Scott, but I think the Scott and Cassie thing is obviously at the forefront because it's part of his emotional arc in the movie and he's ultimately always been the main character.

[Drops Of Venus]

It sucks for Wasp but that ship sailed when Janet wasn't Wasp. Hank and Janet deserved better and should have been part of that first Avengers team in 2012. But as a Young Avengers fan I cannot say Cassie getting more of the partner role doesn't make me happy. I'm unapologetically bias! So sacrifices being made for her rise must happen!

Yeah, the minute they gave up on Joss Whedon's idea of having Janet and Hank as founding Avengers and decided to go with Scott as their first Ant-Man, they pretty much doomed Wasp to a side role, since Scott never really had a Wasp-like partner. They tried to make up for it with Hope, but you can tell it's still Scott's story for the most part.

(And then the comics made things even messier by creating Nadia as a form of synergy, which led to a completely different character that couldn't fill the role of neither Janet nor Hope within that universe. Now the Wasp identity is just kind of all over the place and the cross promotion with the MCU just doesn't work. Their attempts of giving Scott/Janet and Scott/Nadia books back in 2018 just didn't feel organic at all.)

I feel torn about it 'cause, like I said, I feel bad for the comics Wasp fans, and I totally empathize with their frustration, 'cause I would've felt the same if it was my favorite character. But yeah, getting Scott earlier meant also getting Cassie, which put her in the right age to be with the Young Avengers now... so it wasn't all that bad for us. lol

They just released a promo that's focused more on Hope and her relationship with Scott, but I think the Scott and Cassie thing is obviously at the forefront because it's part of his emotional arc in the movie and he's ultimately always been the main character.

Which is the whole problem. I think putting her in the movie title as a consolation prize rather than an actual intent to make her be an equal to Ant-Man is a sad way to treat the founding female Avenger, you know? She just got a really unremarkable adaptation, and they got away with it because no one cares about her the same way they care about Black Widow, Captain Marvel or Scarlet Witch.

[ComicNoobie]

Yeah, the minute they gave up on Joss Whedon's idea of having Janet and Hank as founding Avengers and decided to go with Scott as their first Ant-Man, they pretty much doomed Wasp to a side role, since Scott never really had a Wasp-like partner. They tried to make up for it with Hope, but you can tell it's still Scott's story for the most part.

(And then the comics made things even messier by creating Nadia as a form of synergy, which led to a completely different character that couldn't fill the role of neither Janet nor Hope within that universe. Now the Wasp identity is just kind of all over the place and the cross promotion with the MCU just doesn't work. Their attempts of giving Scott/Janet and Scott/Nadia books back in 2018 just didn't feel organic at all.)

I feel torn about it 'cause, like I said, I feel bad for the comics Wasp fans, and I totally empathize with their frustration, 'cause I would've felt the same if it was my favorite character. But yeah, getting Scott earlier meant also getting Cassie, which put her in the right age to be with the Young Avengers now... so it wasn't all that bad for us. lol



Which is the whole problem. I think putting her in the movie title as a consolation prize rather than an actual intent to make her be an equal to Ant-Man is a sad way to treat the founding female Avenger, you know? She just got a really unremarkable adaptation, and they got away with it because no one cares about her the same way they care about Black Widow, Captain Marvel or Scarlet Witch.

Scott/Hope never took off like Hank/Janet did. The sad thing is I liked Hope in the first Ant-Man movie. I thought she was a nice twist on the MC2 version of Hope Pym and that was cool. It's when they tried to put her in the Wasp role that the character stopped clicking because she had none of the story of Janet. Another reason why Scott/Cassie works over Scott/Hope is they are father/daughter duo so that immediately separates their dynamic from Hank/Janet unlike Scott/Hope which constantly gets compared to it or even mistaken for by casuals.

Scott/Nadia also doesn't work because of the age difference so they can't be lovers and there is no reason for Scott to work with a teenage girl with the same powers as his teenage daughter. Like how can Scott freak out about Cassie being a hero but team up with another one so casually who's the same age? I read the 2018 Ant-Man and Wasp comic recently and while it was good there was no reason Scott couldn't have a similar adventure with his daughter. The reason being is Cassie is not named "Wasp" which has more name recognition over Stinger/Stature. This is why Quantumania is so important to me. It's finally getting Cassie out of the pits and into the spotlight where she should have been after Astonishing Ant-Man. And of course set up Young Avengers

I always thought they should have had Hank and Janet in the original Avengers and by 2015 have Hank become Yellowjacket/Giant Man/Goliath/whatever and pass the mantle to Scott and his story with Cassie still plays out similarly. Janet stays Wasp, Scott is his own Ant-Man, Hank changes whenever he feels like it, and Cassie still goes down the path she's heading teasing Young Avengers. Please give me Young Avengers!

[Digifiend]

Yeah, I like Nadia, but she is NOT the Hope counterpart she was intended as. Her character is completely different (note that Hope has her own appreciation thread - any talk about Nadia is probably better placed in the Champions one), due to the fact that she had to be de-aged to a teenager, and had the Maria is her real mother and Janet just adopted her thing added in because her being Hank and Janet's daughter otherwise just doesn't work in Earth-616. Square peg, round hole. She's fine on her own but doesn't work for synergy at all, so they created her for the wrong reasons. And yes, her existence has definitely hurt Cassie, as she became Stinger around the same time Nadia became the Unstoppable Wasp. So, of course, Cassie's been relegated to appearing only when Scott does - and still got supplanted by Nadia in one mini, though it did at least mention her (Scott had just been in the Guardians of the Galaxy and Nadia was helping him get home for Cassie's birthday). In the MCU, since Hope is Scott's love interest, Hope is essentially Cassie's stepmother, as Janet is to Nadia in the comics.

There is room for both, but it requires a couple of things: one, they need to bring back both Young Avengers and Champions so that they each have their own team. And two, showcase their different personalities when they do appear. Nadia is a fish out of water (being an immigrant), science obsessed, a bit of a workaholic and is a genius. Cassie knows a lot more about pop culture, is known to be a movie buff, has a mischievous streak (inherited from her father of course), and while more of an everygirl (like how Scott is described as an everyman) is learning the science that relates to her powers. In fact last we heard (in Kate Bishop's last solo) she's doing an internship.

[ComicNoobie]

I want to add to what Digifiend said, as I agree with nearly all of it. But first if I may take a brief pause to explode like a fan!

spoilers:

Aaaaaaaah! Footage of Cassie's suit in semi action! Shrinking and GROWING! Stinger, Stature call her whichever you want as she's using both powersets, minus the wings. So that technically makes her a purple Stature. I can't believe it! After all these years Cassie Lang using her powers in a live action movie! My inner younger self is hollering at the top of my lungs right now. This is Young Avengers representation right here! I love it so much! Bring on Wiccan in Agatha's show! Bring me Hulkling wherever he might appear! Bring me Speed! Bring everyone! Could this be their year? Time will tell! OMG Cassie's growing freaking big! Quantumania, make my girl a star, please!

end of spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkP3TTWtQEI

[Drops Of Venus]

I want to add to what Digifiend said, as I agree with nearly all of it. But first if I may take a brief pause to explode like a fan!

spoilers:

Aaaaaaaah! Footage of Cassie's suit in semi action! Shrinking and GROWING! Stinger, Stature call her whichever you want as she's using both powersets, minus the wings. So that technically makes her a purple Stature. I can't believe it! After all these years Cassie Lang using her powers in a live action movie! My inner younger self is hollering at the top of my lungs right now. This is Young Avengers representation right here! I love it so much! Bring on Wiccan in Agatha's show! Bring me Hulkling wherever he might appear! Bring me Speed! Bring everyone! Could this be their year? Time will tell! OMG Cassie's growing freaking big! Quantumania, make my girl a star, please!

end of spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkP3TTWtQEI

So weird that they posted this video on the official Marvel channel but it's unlisted (meaning it can't be seen unless you have access to the link; it won't show up in your recommendations, subscriptions, etc). LET MORE PEOPLE SEE CASSIE, MARVEL!

Anyway, that was a fun video. FINALLY more action shots! I loved hearing everyone praising her. I really hope she is a standout character like they're making it out to be.

[Digifiend]

Well they did cast a decent actress. She might be very busy soon. Kathryn Newton played a rookie reporter (the female lead) in Detective Pikachu, and there's rumours that might be getting a sequel.

[Frontier]

I want to add to what Digifiend said, as I agree with nearly all of it. But first if I may take a brief pause to explode like a fan!

spoilers:

Aaaaaaaah! Footage of Cassie's suit in semi action! Shrinking and GROWING! Stinger, Stature call her whichever you want as she's using both powersets, minus the wings. So that technically makes her a purple Stature. I can't believe it! After all these years Cassie Lang using her powers in a live action movie! My inner younger self is hollering at the top of my lungs right now. This is Young Avengers representation right here! I love it so much! Bring on Wiccan in Agatha's show! Bring me Hulkling wherever he might appear! Bring me Speed! Bring everyone! Could this be their year? Time will tell! OMG Cassie's growing freaking big! Quantumania, make my girl a star, please!

end of spoilers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkP3TTWtQEI

spoilers:

Sounds like she has her Stature powerset but the Stinger colors. But if she doesn't have any Wasp-esque qualities or design elements, she may as well just be Stature.

end of spoilers

[ComicNoobie]

For the time being I'm just calling her "purple" Stature until she gets a official hero name. I just watched a video for the Marvel's Contest of Champions game for her gameplay and to see what she could possibly pull off in future Marvel titles. I might have to get this mobile game just to play as her lol. What a great time it is to be a fan! Movie and game appearances. The only thing to make this 100% perfect is a Young Avengers volume 3 announcement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFK3ieBdRPY

[Fokken]

Controversial Opinion: Now that Wanda succeeded in bridging the mutant resurrection gaps, gaining the Krakoan title of Redeemer, I would very much like to see Tommy's frequency continued on the island, spending time with Prodigy and his peers, further bridging relations between he and the other members of the Young Avengers alumni. Given his brother's previous (possibly enduring) bias around Krakoa and their treatment of Wanda, it would make for an interesting exploration of THEIR relationship specific to the extraterrestrial / terrestrial political relations, as well as any particular familial angst on either side.

Since Oliveira's Speed & Prodigy Unlimited story, I've continually thought about Billy & Tommy and their unique vantage points of their relationship. In many ways, Tommy feels that Billy has abandoned him. It makes sense that Tommy would find a concept like Krakoa seductive, for the purposes of forming new bonds of the found-family variety.

[Sutekh]

Controversial Opinion: Now that Wanda succeeded in bridging the mutant resurrection gaps, gaining the Krakoan title of Redeemer, I would very much like to see Tommy's frequency continued on the island, spending time with Prodigy and his peers, further bridging relations between he and the other members of the Young Avengers alumni. Given his brother's previous (possibly enduring) bias around Krakoa and their treatment of Wanda, it would make for an interesting exploration of THEIR relationship specific to the extraterrestrial / terrestrial political relations, as well as any particular familial angst on either side.

Since Oliveira's Speed & Prodigy Unlimited story, I've continually thought about Billy & Tommy and their unique vantage points of their relationship. In many ways, Tommy feels that Billy has abandoned him. It makes sense that Tommy would find a concept like Krakoa seductive, for the purposes of forming new bonds of the found-family variety.

From a powers standpoint, the X-folk have rarely had a ton of speedsters (and when they have, it's mostly been Pietro and Surge, of the New X-Men/Academy X years), so Tommy would definitely add both something new and dynamic for a team, but also a fun personality.

It does intrigue me how Tommy and Billy are spiritual siblings, in magical theory, but don't really seem to feel the same sort of connection of real-world twins (perhaps because of growing up as part of totally different families / in totally different situations). Tommy, in particular, doesn't seem to be much of a joiner, but more someone who has one or two good friends, and a bunch of aquantainces that come or go, while Billy seems to have dived into the fantasy his life has become and totally forgotten about his birth-family, as if they ceased to exist entirely, and has similarly not a ton of ties to his 'found' family in the YA (other than Teddy, obviously), going off to join Avengers teams, Strikeforce, etc. while we are given the impression from their other appearances that both Prodigy and Kate keep tied to the other YA (and various other young heroes) via text chat on their phones, if nothing else.

On the one hand, I don't imagine anyone really wants to read about Billy stopping by the family's house in New Jersey or whatever for Channukah, so it's entirely possible that he spends hours a day off-panel reconnecting with his old family, thanks to his ability to teleport around, *or* perhaps he has completely vanished into the space opera romantic high fantasy his life has become, and actually kind of dread the idea of reconnecting with his birth family and somehow getting trapped in that old life, in that old bedroom, as if this magical whirlwind his life has become is a dream that he could somehow lose if he went back home and 'got stuck.' (Whether in some surreal 'this was all a dream! time to wake up and go to school and get harassed by the school bully!,' in some more prosaic fashion where mom has cancer or little brother is being lured into the gang/drugs life or dad's behind on taxes and about to lose the house, and he feels a responsibility to devote some time to helping his real life family, and not so much time on alien planets and magical adventures.)

[ComicNoobie]

Controversial Opinion: Now that Wanda succeeded in bridging the mutant resurrection gaps, gaining the Krakoan title of Redeemer, I would very much like to see Tommy's frequency continued on the island, spending time with Prodigy and his peers, further bridging relations between he and the other members of the Young Avengers alumni. Given his brother's previous (possibly enduring) bias around Krakoa and their treatment of Wanda, it would make for an interesting exploration of THEIR relationship specific to the extraterrestrial / terrestrial political relations, as well as any particular familial angst on either side.

Since Oliveira's Speed & Prodigy Unlimited story, I've continually thought about Billy & Tommy and their unique vantage points of their relationship. In many ways, Tommy feels that Billy has abandoned him. It makes sense that Tommy would find a concept like Krakoa seductive, for the purposes of forming new bonds of the found-family variety.

Why is that controversial? Sounds find to me. Tommy gets little to no love in Marvel regardless of the project. If he wants to go to Krakoa maybe it'll give him a story. Then again I barely know what happens on Krakoa. That said Tommy could really use some spotlight. We never focus too much on him during the "family" episodes. Billy is obviously the favorite among the Maximoffs and it must hurt poor Speed.

And while I doubt it'll happen I want to see Coat of Arms return. I liked her interactions with Tommy, brief as they were lol.

[Digifiend]

From a powers standpoint, the X-folk have rarely had a ton of speedsters (and when they have, it's mostly been Pietro and Surge, of the New X-Men/Academy X years),

Aren't you forgetting Northstar and his twin sister Aurora?

And Surge ISN'T a speedster, she has electrical powers. DC's Surge, Jai West, is a speedster, did you confuse them?

[Digifiend]

Oh, she's definitely Stature. There's a new Build a Figure line. Collect all the different characters (Kang, Ant-Man, Wasp, Ultron, the Future Ant-Man from Al Ewing's recent Ant-Man mini, Egghead and Crossfire), and you can build a giant Cassie.
https://www.instagram.com/p/CoXmf2osRnd/