Higher Faster Further Captain Marvel Appreciation 2023

[walk]

Still want the old origin back. We can keep the new characters, but with changes made to their backstories because hey, it's Carol we're all here for.

So what the Kree decided to use the DNA of random a Boston housewife to make Lauri-Ell because... reasons?

Never got the hubbub around Carol's retcon as it's best kind of one, it's additive and expands the heroes lore and adds depth to Carol family while not changing any the events that actually happened.

It gives Carol a more direct tie to Kree and makes the source of her power tied to her own history and family instead of it being just a footnote in Mar-Vell story.

I've read the original Captain Marvel/Ms.Marvel runs and the whole Psyche-Magnitron was very much a plot device and largely an excuse to explain Carol's powers, the original story itself had little to do with Carol herself and once Mar-Vell rescues her the book promptly forgets about her and moves on.

It adds some complexity to Carol parents and her estrangement from them rather than just being cruddy people and certain moments like Carol mom instantly knowing about her superhero persona better in retrospect.

[walk]

I've been making my way through Brian Reed Ms.Marvel run for the first time and while I've mostly enjoyed it but I gotta say it's a shame he didn't commit to Carol's flirtation with Wonderman. Unlike pretty much all the generic love interests and flat romances Carol had over the years (and yes I'm including Rhodey in that) I actually felt her and Simon had some real chemistry going on but instead he's set-up as a romantic runner-up to some random restaurant owner who Brian Reed ends up killing off in the end anyway, I don't know what original plan was with that guy but thing with him being secretly a Kree the whole time definitely felt like a last minute change.

There's something to be said about portraying two heroes as friends first and having the attraction build up over time ,it would improve a lot of superhero romances where usually feel rushed and unearned.

[davetvs]

So what the Kree decided to use the DNA of random a Boston housewife to make Lauri-Ell because... reasons?

Never got the hubbub around Carol's retcon as it's best kind of one, it's additive and expands the heroes lore and adds depth to Carol family while not changing any the events that actually happened.

It gives Carol a more direct tie to Kree and makes the source of her power tied to her own history and family instead of it being just a footnote in Mar-Vell story.

I've read the original Captain Marvel/Ms.Marvel runs and the whole Psyche-Magnitron was very much a plot device and largely an excuse to explain Carol's powers, the original story itself had little to do with Carol herself and once Mar-Vell rescues her the book promptly forgets about her and moves on.

It adds some complexity to Carol parents and her estrangement from them rather than just being cruddy people and certain moments like Carol mom instantly knowing about her superhero persona better in retrospect.

I agree, I thought Life of Captain Marvel was one of the better modern Carol stories. That retcon works.

[Frontier]

I've been making my way through Brian Reed Ms.Marvel run for the first time and while I've mostly enjoyed it but I gotta say it's a shame he didn't commit to Carol's flirtation with Wonderman. Unlike pretty much all the generic love interests and flat romances Carol had over the years (and yes I'm including Rhodey in that) I actually felt her and Simon had some real chemistry going on but instead he's set-up as a romantic runner-up to some random restaurant owner who Brian Reed ends up killing off in the end anyway, I don't know what original plan was with that guy but thing with him being secretly a Kree the whole time definitely felt like a last minute change.

There's something to be said about portraying two heroes as friends first and having the attraction build up over time ,it would improve a lot of superhero romances where usually feel rushed and unearned.

They were cute together. And it happened more naturally than Carol and Rhodey did, in my opinion.

[ShatteredReality]

I personally don't like the retcon because it just makes her mother a bad person and it is never really addressed. I mean, sure she's more complex, but she also let her abusive husband beat up his own kids (but not Carol). She's a bad person but Carol is just so happy to find out her powers come from her. Plus, any complexity that could have come from it is ruined when she just dies at the end. Way to go Carol, you really saved the day there!

[ShatteredReality]

So I just went a reread the issues of the retcon story. And yeah I still have some problems with it.

While the retcon is fine in premise, in execution it fails miserably. Let's make a list.

- Carol's mother is a bad person but is forgiven by the end. I don't think she should have been forgiven. I think there's more story potential out there that was wasted when she was killed off.
- The mission that Carol's mother was sent on is never actually explained. Why was she on Earth in the first place. She says that her mission was Carol, but what does that mean? She was sent to Earth to have a half-human baby? Or was she just being figurative when she said that?
- The villain is really bad. She's a naked blue lady. For some reason she's going around stealing people's clothes, but when she fights Carol she's naked again. And then she randomly gets armor for the final battle, probably because it would be really silly having a naked blue lady kill Carol's mother.
- The love interest is really bland. He's just some random guy who's probably meant to be like Lana Lang or something, but we've never seen him before and he keep whining about wanting to kiss Carol.
- Carol's panic attacks have never happened before and never happen again. So they were just added in to make things more "dramatic" without really thinking about their deeper consequences.
- Should Carol even have them in the first place? I thought she lost her memories (multiple times)!
- I didn't realize that Kree secretly have superpowers. Why didn't Carol's power activate that time she was captured and tortured by terrorists? Was that not bad enough?
- I thought the Kree had a Supreme Intelligence, not an empress Pama?
- Why is Mar-Vell even in this story. So he and Carol can stare lovingly into each other's eyes before he messes up continuity even more by revealing his identity to her? Carol was suspicious of him, not in love with him! And rightfully so, he was an alien spy. But in this story Carol just wants to bang him, I guess. And why does he even reveal his identity to her? Are all Kree just so horny that they'll reveal their secret identity to whatever random person they meet, or is it just him and Carol's mom?

[Frontier]

This kind of just reminds me how unremarkable Stohl's run in general was.

[Thirteen]

Looking for CF Villa's rendition of Carol in preparation for the AVENGERS run...not so impressed so far from some practice posted on Twitter...



However this colored image is a bit better.

[Frontier]

Looking for CF Villa's rendition of Carol in preparation for the AVENGERS run...not so impressed so far from some practice posted on Twitter...



However this colored image is a bit better.

Looks like a solid Carol to me.

[walk]

So I just went a reread the issues of the retcon story. And yeah I still have some problems with it.

While the retcon is fine in premise, in execution it fails miserably. Let's make a list.

- Carol's mother is a bad person but is forgiven by the end. I don't think she should have been forgiven. I think there's more story potential out there that was wasted when she was killed off.
- The mission that Carol's mother was sent on is never actually explained. Why was she on Earth in the first place. She says that her mission was Carol, but what does that mean? She was sent to Earth to have a half-human baby? Or was she just being figurative when she said that?
- The villain is really bad. She's a naked blue lady. For some reason she's going around stealing people's clothes, but when she fights Carol she's naked again. And then she randomly gets armor for the final battle, probably because it would be really silly having a naked blue lady kill Carol's mother.
- The love interest is really bland. He's just some random guy who's probably meant to be like Lana Lang or something, but we've never seen him before and he keep whining about wanting to kiss Carol.
- Carol's panic attacks have never happened before and never happen again. So they were just added in to make things more "dramatic" without really thinking about their deeper consequences.
- Should Carol even have them in the first place? I thought she lost her memories (multiple times)!
- I didn't realize that Kree secretly have superpowers. Why didn't Carol's power activate that time she was captured and tortured by terrorists? Was that not bad enough?
- I thought the Kree had a Supreme Intelligence, not an empress Pama?
- Why is Mar-Vell even in this story. So he and Carol can stare lovingly into each other's eyes before he messes up continuity even more by revealing his identity to her? Carol was suspicious of him, not in love with him! And rightfully so, he was an alien spy. But in this story Carol just wants to bang him, I guess. And why does he even reveal his identity to her? Are all Kree just so horny that they'll reveal their secret identity to whatever random person they meet, or is it just him and Carol's mom?

This really reminds me of Sarah Z Bad Media Criticism] video and how a lot online "criticism" has become a bunch nitpicking over minor details instead of actually engaging with the actual themes of the story and what's it was actually trying to coney. A lot the time these supposed "plot holes" can be filled with a bit objective thinking and the understanding that every story requires a bit suspension of disbelief.

-The book is upfront that Mari deeply regrets how everything with her family went down and all the secrets, that doesn't make her a "bad person" simply a flawed one. She was a Kree woman who knew nothing but war beforehand so for better or worse when it came to how to live a normal human life and raising children she followed her human husband's lead. She obviously didn't like how Joe disciplined the boys but likely from her perspective considering what she went through as a child a few slaps is nothing also considering she wasn't their birth mother she may have felt she didn't have a right to object how Joe chose to parent them. You might see her death as a "waste" but the story itself is something of cautionary tale of the importance of resolving the ghosts from your past while you still can.
I like how Carol and her mother are inverse mirrors of each other, Mari grew up with no parents and was conscripted into the military as a child but chose a life of peace and family when she came to earth while her daughter was denied access to pursue her dreams of wanting go to outer-space and pressured to live a life of mundanity and promptly abandoned her family to join the airforce. In the story both women can't reconcile with their pasts or each other until in Mari case it literally catches up with them and their forced to.

-The Kree have always been interested in Earth and doing experiments to give abilities seeing humans as a means to jump start their evolution again (that's literally how the Inhumans came about). They wanted Mari to assimilate and birth a half-breed child then return to Hala with Carol where they likely would've experimented on her there's even an old Ms. Marvel story where the Supreme Intelligence tried to turn Carol into a breeding slave because her mixed DNA.

-The book makes it obvious the Kree Kleaner (blue lady) is childlike and tends to copies everything it interacts with it literally repeating the words of the people it meets and kills, so yeah given it's mimic-like nature it trying on clothes tracks as is the fact it's an artificial creation designed to adapt to it's opponent, Mari beats it in their first encounter so it starts forming armor and weapons in their second bout.

-A bland love interests in a Carol story? Never. Besides it's clearly not suppose to go anywhere and ties into stories theme of regret. Maybe him and Carol could've had something but similar to with parents that time has past and all they can do now is move on.

-Given everything Carol been through it's almost surprising she's never had a panic attack/PTSD. But thematically it's suppose to be a physical manifestation of the inner turmoil she feels over her broken family, her mother diving in and rescuing her reminds her that she is still loved and in turn helps heal that wound.

-Carol got her memories back a long time ago.

-Part of the reason for the retcon was to simplify Carol's origins, saying her powers now come from her mother's unique physiology that lets them tap into an ancient Kree defense mechanism is cleaner than a Psche-Magnetron machine followed by Brood experiments, now she's always had them the two incidents just evolved them further, hell you could even retroactively say her torture by Rashid started to unlock her basic level Kree endurance and strength as he notes a normal man would've passed out hours ago.

-The Kree Empire has multiple worlds and ruling figures, a faction with an Empress isn't too much of a stretch.

-Mar-Vel and Carol having feelings for each other has been long established by many other past runs at this point and it was even true in the original Captain Marvel run from the 60's to an extent. If anything adding a moment where he reveals his identity to her before the Yon Rogg incident helps explains how she knows it later. Again the books trying to add some emotional weight to the events and relationships in Carol past that were previously lacking.

[ShatteredReality]

I don't think I'm nitpicking. If you don't think someone who stands idly by while child abuse is happening is not a bad person I don't know what to say to you.

I don't like getting into arguments on the internet so I'll just leave it here.

[walk]

I don't think I'm nitpicking. If you don't think someone who stands idly by while child abuse is happening is not a bad person I don't know what to say to you.

I don't like getting into arguments on the internet so I'll just leave it here.

Yikes you say you don't get into online arguments but you'll also imply someone cool with actual child abuse simply because they don't agree with over a comicbook.

Ok bye felicia.

[ShatteredReality]

I once read a fanfiction where Carol breaks up with Rhodey off screen to date a ghost. I can't tell if that's emblematic of how boring their relationship is or if it's hilarious.

I think Carol should date Jessica. They're good friends and I don't really see how dating would ruin their friendship.

[Shadowcat]

Looking for CF Villa's rendition of Carol in preparation for the AVENGERS run...not so impressed so far from some practice posted on Twitter...



However this colored image is a bit better.

That’s a pretty decent Carol, I can’t wait to see the rest of the cast.

[ShatteredReality]

Do you ever think there will be a story that acknowledges all the bad stuff the us military has done or will it just be more propaganda?